Sexual Misconduct Allegations in the Fashion Industry

Discussion in 'In the News...' started by ThatDudeOverTher, Dec 1, 2017.

  1. Phuel

    Phuel Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ LOL People don’t want a conversation these days— they just want a quick witchburning. Anyone that actually wants a “conversation” with a critical approach to both POV and common sense, is instantly decried as unsupportive/toxic/patriarchal. WTF happened to common sense: Don’t witlessly stroll into a pit full of vipers if you don’t want to be bitten. Own up and take responsibility for your own actions, kidz.

    You’re so awful LOL

    He’s handsome— but he’s only 30?!?!?! …He could easily pass for 40s. Not a bash— always attracted to younger men who look older than they really are.
     
  2. MulletProof

    MulletProof Well-Known Member

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    there.. as in court? I'm just talking about the picture and the ultra curated art direction to support his case, it's tfs..

    Not sure what would change seeing as there is no conversation on the victim look promoted via entertainment in the past few years because the suggestion alone that an alleged victim could manipulate his/her appearance to increase probabilities for justice is politically incorrect.

    Maybe I’m wrong, he does claim to be a man of extraordinary influence ('..credited with helping create a shift in men's fashion by introducing high fashion vintage menswear into modern dressing and making it cool for men to wear and collect vintage as well as helping to put men's streetwear into womenswear. Casavant was partially responsible for the revival of the late-’90s/early-aughts streetwear look [...]' - as written -by himself?- as of February 15 on wikipedia) so maybe he is the messiah sexual assault victims have been waiting for in order to be believed. In the meantime, it certainly exposes an interesting contrast regarding the visual vocabulary and authority over personal image that men can comfortably keep or develop while making a case for assault. They don’t have to dress as their story because they know public opinion is suddenly able to make a distinction between person with agency and incident 'beyond his power'.

    So, yeah, a cinematic portrait distilling conceit will take nothing away from his case, but can someone above the race/gender/class boxes most victims are confined to before their cases are scrutinized, generate, by himself, and even in that minor way you suggest, a conversation that amplifies the image of a 'truthful' victim? time will tell..
     
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  3. TonTon73

    TonTon73 New Member

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    I'm guessing your are speaking about the victim here, but really, your statement should be directed at Alexander Wang.

    Also...victim shaming isn't a good look.
     
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  4. Phuel

    Phuel Well-Known Member

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    ^^^I don’t have enough facts on the case to be "victim-shaming”. Just as you don’t have enough of the facts of the case to be unanimously declaring the accused unequivocally guilty based on your emotions. I’m interested in a "conversation", while you seem to be interested in immediately dismissing my POV since it doesn’t agree with your. I don’t mean to LOL at your post upthread— it was just a knee-jerk reaction to lighten the mood, because whenever anyone claims that such a topic will initiate a “conversation", they usually mean an unanimous bashing of the accused before any evidence is presented. And you’ve proven that with your reply.

    Unless you were a witness to the incident, know the “victim” directly, spoken with him personally, how convenient to play judge/jury/executioner without further inquisition. I get that it’s politically-incorrect to inquire further, hear both sides on a very sensitive topic these days before lynching the accused. And I believe he had the misfortune to have encountered Wang, it’s the rest of the vital and very intimate details leading up to the accusation that are as important to the context. And unfortunately, people do change their mind/story after the (consenting) fact.
     
  5. TonTon73

    TonTon73 New Member

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    Well, it goes both ways, doesn't it? You were also biased in what you wrote. I fully agree that things need to be seen from both sides, however, as is the case with most of these issues, a lack of evidence aside from a friend possibly witnessing something is a big problem. It really is what I said vs what you said in these situations.

    I just wanted to point out, that for me, based on what was written it sounded like you were shaming the victim for being around Wang and that he got what was coming to him. I will admit that in a lot of these cases, I look at what the alleged victim has to gain from coming forward and what they have to lose. Most often it is the latter, and they wind up the butt of jokes and a prodding into their life beyond to find any reason why they must be making things up.

    My issue with a case like this, as with Harvey Weinstein, is that there is an alleged repetition in the same behaviour over time. It isn't a one off accusation. Of course, that isn't to say that someone along the line didn't make something up or embellish, but again, how are we to ever know? I don't agree with dragging someones name through the mud without a "fair" trial, but I do wonder how that is ever actually possible. Especially today, with social media, and with the uptick of people speaking up.
     
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  6. Phuel

    Phuel Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ Fair enough.

    My harshness/scepticism/cynicism wasn’t directed at his accusation; it was directed at a generalization I hear/read that people want to have a conversation about such incidents, when they really don’t and just want to repeat keynote points of victimhood culture. As adults navigating through this extremely hostile and ruthless industry (and don’t believe for a moment that it’s any more compassionate/kinder/gentler just because that’s the new facade presented these days), all participants need to take some accountability/responsibility for their actions. Of course every individual has a different tolerance and threshold for any act of indecency and worse: and It’s usually not as black and white as it may seem initially, more so to us from the outside looking in. That’s something unfortunately— or fortunately, many of us have had to learn very early on when maneuvering through this industry, if we want to maintain our sanity— and our humanity.

    (The Weinstein, and even Cosby incidents aren’t of the same context as Wang’s. In the former cases, all the women were meeting the men, even if their presupposed dark reputation may proceed these men, under the guise of a professional arrangement [...weren’t assistances present to get the women in some of Weintein’s meetings? Why wouldn't these women feel save under such professional guises???]. With Wang’s case, they’re all deep in a party atmosphere, where protocol standards are at the debauchery level— if I’m being kind. There’s a certain unspoken tolerance of the inappropriate behaviour within the context of such environment; Viper’s pit and all that.)
     
  7. dsamg

    dsamg Well-Known Member

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    I do understand what you are saying and I agree with you that it is not black and white and there are conversations that should be had without anyone being attacked. First off I will say that clearly Wang is a very predatory person and also a brat. I do not want to defend him and I hope his career is over. But I do see how there are grey areas in these stories and how they maybe not so easy to interpret. I see how maybe people who knew him did not see him as a predator and maybe he did not see himself as one either. As you said there is a party atmosphere where behaviour like putting party pills in someone's drink without them knowing is seen as just having fun and not being predatory per se. Florence's story in particular was highly misinterpreted - she was never trying to say Wang targeted her by swapping her water with vodka but she was more so laughing and joking about it because in the context he is just seen as a mischeivous, carefree party boy. I doubt this behaviour was interpreted by predatory by anyone around him (and really if everyone is getting drunk together and having fun with trusted friends there is no reason why that story with Florence is anything negative). Of course when you put a party pill in a drink and then proceed to sexually assault them it is a different and much more sinister story. As you said well, every individual has a different tolerance and threshold for any act of indecency. Running and pulling someone's pants down as a party was very likely seen as funny and cheeky by many people around him, and given his behaviour was constantly glorified by the industry he had no reason to really believe it wasn't.

    To your second example I think this story is a good example. In this story Alexander Wang is accused of sexual assault of 'blacked out' man | Daily Mail Online Nick's drink was not spiked, they were drinking heavily and said the shots just kept coming. From his accounts of the night it seems Wang's had just as many drinks as him so when they were in the cab and he says Wang was performing sex acts on him the facts were that they were two adults in a cab who had been drinking heavily together all night. Wang was not in a position of'professional power here given Nick is not even in the industry, no one's drinks were spiked and after this Nick texted Wang frequently to invite him clubbing, asking him to hang out, smoke weed, and chill and had texted him happy birthday right before this story came out. To be clear, it is absolutely disgusting behaviour to be doing anything sexual with anyone while they are blacked out and that is something that absolutely constitues assault. Morally it is terrible but from a legal point of view it would be very difficult given they were both very drunk, no one was a minor and no one was in a position of power. As you said, it is not right to compare this with the Weinstein stories where there was indisputable coersion happening. Wang's behaviour is gross and predatory, but is it so clearly on the same level as even all the fashion photographers who have been exposed, who were targeting young models whose careers they could destroy? It is not black and white.

    Regardless, I hope all the victims can get a bit of closure by seeing his career end. It must feel horrible to come out about your traumatic experience and see the industry walk on eggshells around the story as it has.
     
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  8. gunsnroses

    gunsnroses Active Member

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    The cut released a report with new allegations against Alexander Wang from seven accusers. Alexander Wang Off Duty
     
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