SEXY, CUTE or POINTLESS. Gender generalisations of style

[fash ho']

My good male friend once made a comment on what he thought was the general male view on how women dress. He said "If its not cute, or sexy, its pretty much pointless".

Of course this is a gross generalisation (and bearing in mind that gender -generalised discussions can be very limited).

But do you think there is any truth in this statement? And what about what women want?

We can assume that men and women of TFS are probably more fashion-discerning than average.

But what effect does more directional/creative style have on the opposite sex?

 

[tott]

Of course generalisations aren't fair or nuanced, but they are sort of true...

Cute/flirty/sexy is what the great majority of women seem to want to wear, and what the great majority of men seem to prefer them to wear... And vice versa, a lot of women want their men to look sexy, eurotrash style, or plain and "manly", and this is what a lot of guys dress like.

I think that a woman who is in the minority that dresses more conceptually and creatively will be more appreciated by men who also appreciate this way of dressing and do it too. Other men will probably just wonder why she's making herself look weird or ugly...

But there is also a middleground, you can find a way to combine flirty and avantgarde...

 

[theraindrops]

Well, i don't really want to convey a sexy or cute image. That's my point.

 

[tott]

^ There are people who appreciate that as well, right?

 

[theraindrops]

Sure, I don't want to be seen as something covetable to men who are drawn to very obvious ways of "presentations".
Although, to be honest (as I live in knee lenght skirts), it's more the "sexy" thing that doesn't suit my personality. I guess skirts are often seen as "cute" (traditionally feminine).

 

[theraindrops]

Another point: Every person has her or his own idea of what is "sexy" or "cute". Some find low cleavage sexy, some find the charisma a person radiates in a certain outfit sexy etc...

 

[Sonnytsunami]

as far as i see it.. i have always dressed for myself... never to please anyone else...

i dont think i would dress any different, and esp. not for guys! i mean, i would find it stupid if someone (girl or boy) changed his or her style just cos of my taste in clothing. that would reveal a weak personality, me thinks..

plus i dont think all guys are so predictable.. some guys go for the lady like kind of style in gals while others find boyish looking gals truly sexy too so... much easier just to be oneself and more honest as well. (i would feel like dressing in disguise if i changed my style just to please someone else, never mind if my mom or a lover...)

and very often i feel uncomfortable with people saying i look hot in certain outfits cos that is never my intention and hardly ever see their point... weird how one never has an objective view or approach of one's own image and how that image is perceived by others...

Sonny dixit...

 

[Johnny]

I think Tott's right...it's a generalisation, but that's what we're talking about isn't it? It's obvious that there will be some exceptions......

Certainly most men I know will prefer the "sexy" (by which I mean obviously sexy, not just subjectively) look, in fact more so than the cute look. Most men do see women as commodities (this is not my endorsement of that view). Having said that, they want to see that on women other than their own partners, which of course is entirely hypocritical, and very sad and insecure. But that's men for ya!

So I think as a broad generalisation, the intital comment is just an honest one. Another question is how women react to that - are they aware of that prevailing view, and dress accordingly? Again I think I agree with Tott that to a significant extent, that does happen. I don't really buy the "I only dress for myself" thing. It's pretty clear that this can't really be 100% correct - most people are complimented by a positive reaction, and are made insecure by a negative one. If people only dressed for themselves the What are You Wearing Today thread (which is essentially about showing other people how you look, and, if we're being honest, waiting for a positive response) wouldn't be as long as it is. There's nothing wrong with it, just human nature, but there's no point in denying it. I'm not saying that all women, or men, dress solely to impress or get a reaction from other people, just that it's inevitably a part of why we get "dressed up". In other words part of the reason you feel good in a particular outfit is because you think that other people will think you look good in it. Again, that's not to say that you want everyone to think you look good - indeed a lot of the people on TFS here probably don't want that, but want to feel like they're dressed "in code" for people in the know. I know that as long as my wife likes what I wear, I don't really care what other people think, but I do care what she thinks, and if she didn't like it, i'd like it less.

So, back to the point(!), I think that is there is a prevailing male preference for sexy or cute, it's kind of inevitable that there's a prevailing sexy or cute look. It works the other way around too. I think the majority of young women in the UK like their blokes to look a particular way (basically like off duty footballers), and the blokes dress accordingly. It's all part of the mating ritual really........

 

[tott]

Eloquently put, Johnny!

And it's true that while we may dress to fit our own image of ourselves, we also want to project that image to others. What we choose to wear is a form of communication, a statement.

 

[fash ho']

i agree, Tott and Johnny. Although I think you can dress for yourself to an extent. But of course its not in a social vacuum - its not like we live in a hut in the forest with our wardrobes and just choose how we want to express ourselves each day without the gaze of others. Otherwise, more people would look truly potty and wear red bobble hats more often (and actually i think most 'eccentricity' is pretty styled anyway).

Your comments on the WAYWT thread cracked me up. I think it works for the viewer as an inspiration thread sometimes, but there is definitely a waiting for validation element/peacock thing going on, although i would argue that its not necessarily about validation from the opposite sex. Within that thread there are taste and mutual admiration factions going on.

Although I often get frustrated by the "men like this, women like that" conversations (to me gender is a part of who you are, but so is your background, religion, race, experience etc), I think it is very powerful to be real and understand some of these dynamics and the effect your look may have on others.

And then choose what you want to wear with that in mind. That way, your clothes and your style have more power in how you express yourself.

 

[SophieKawaii]

Well said Johnny!
We all depend on others more or less, even we don't admit..

Anyway my male known's answer about this topic was "why would a non-sexy or non-cute woman be directly pointless?! " Simple but meaty..

 

[fash ho']

i don't think he meant that you are pointless if you aren't sexy or cute. It just refers to clothes.

 

[softgrey]

comments like that make me think that men are pointless...
and explain to a large degree why i am single...


argh!!...
..

 

[susie_bubble]

Some excellent points across the board. Johnny, I do agree that everyone dresses for purposes other than for themselves. Certainly, when I dress, I will happily admit that I'm trying to send the message out that I'm a person who is interested in fashion and is style conscious. Of course I want to make that clear, otherwise why would I indulge in clothes and shoes at all if I didn't?? However, my problem lies in the fact that my personal taste doesn't go in accordance with what the general male population like i.e. cute, sexy. It's not that I don't want to impress the opposite sex but it just doesn't seem to be in my nature.

If there is a small percentage of men that appreciate intelligent, conceptual or more 'well-thought out' styles as it were (as most people on the WAYWT thread dress) then I haven't met that many and so there is my dilemma. I do think the way I dress alienates or intimidates men. They think it's a bit weird or ridiculous the way I dress. For instance, guys will literally say 'Why don't you just wear a cute top and a pair of jeans?' This is where dressing for myself comes into play - I DON'T WANT to wear a cute top and a pair of jeans - I take pleasure in creating outfits inspired by something/someone or dressing on a whimsy. I do put a lot of thought into my outfits and I take joy in that process. Therefore some guys will say 'That's not natural' or they have this idea that girls who just 'throw' on a tank and some jeans is the sexiest thing ever. It's not that I disagree but it's just that it's not me.

 

[susie_bubble]

comments like that make me think that men are pointless...
and explain to a large degree why i am single...


argh!!...
..

I hear you.... loud and clear

 

[eugenius]

^I second that one Susie...both of your comments actually...

Hmmm, I KNOW I can contribute to this thread, but lemme think about this for a sec (or maybe you, Susie, already took the words right out of my mouth..)

 

[Melisande]

Bah, he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about . Many men, being fashion illiterate, are brainwashed by the media to think that:

Traditionally sexy/cute clothing=available/interested

It's also true that they are initially more visually stimulated than women, but that can't really be helped. We at tFS know that there are so many more ways than traditionally cute or sexy clothing through which women communicate interest in the opposite sex, precisely because we are fashion literate. But even the men who make such comments, when face-to-face with a woman, can and do find themselves responding to the person behind the clothes. I've seen it happen so often, and I think with maturity the men themselves begin to realize it too.

I think the word "pointless" was used very rashly and quite rude though.

Like Tott says, if you dress to express your true self, men who appreciate your true self will be drawn to you.

So many guys around me are actually drawn to tough, confident women who dress to reflect their individuality and specifically don't cater to men...maybe it's a Japanese thing or an artists' thing, but I definitely see it.

 

[Alliecat]

Dressing to please a man has, the few times I have done it, made me feel uncomfortable (and so I stopped even considering it as an option). When I did do it I was MUCH younger and less confident of myself.

One thing I have found in Asia is that there is often times more dressing for women. By that I mean in Seoul when I would go out it was the other women that critique'd (at times quite obviously) what I , and others, were wearing. Then here in Bangkok men want 'sexy and cute' - but in a way that is handy because it establishes very quickly that I will, in all likelihood, not have anything in commen with them. On that level it clarifies things very fast.

I always look at the 'what are you wearing thread' and am always impressed by peoples creativity, openess and belief in what they are wearing. 100% of the time it looks FANTASTIC and so much of that is attitude. If we all dressed to please members of the opposite sex (and same gender if that way inclined) life would be way less interesting and far more competitive on a base level. More about surface, less about personality/depth.

 

[fash ho']

okay, I have to defend my friend, Aled here. That wasn't his opinion - it was a discussion of what he was putting out as the prevailing (but what he personally thought was quite basic) male view.

when we discussed it, i remember getting quite cross (not at him) because i thought it was just so . . . basic. however, it was naive of me to deny it - just look at the images of women in mainsteam media, adverts, lads mags, women's mags for that matter - its all about the sexy or cute.

 

[PrinceOfCats]

I have always tried to look as frightening as possible - it prevents questioning.