Stylist & Photographer: working together

[solomonsdevalois]

Photographer's Creative Input -how much?

A question to the experienced people behind the lens... when photographers do fashion spreads for magazines, how much say do they have on the clothes and style? I suppose its different for publishing work or artistic nudes etc... because the photographer has his/her own way most of the time. With fashion, there is the fashion editor, stylist, make-up artist and everything. So is the photographer just supposed to supervise the location, poses, and expression of the subject? or can you also comment on the clothing?

Many thanks.

 

[softgrey]

hi there...this varies...some photographers are really into the clothes and some couldn't care less...

it also really depends on the relationship between the phtographer and the stylist...
usually the stylist is more in charge of this...but as photographers get more 'clout'...they can have more control over all aspects of the pictures...

for some jobs the clothes have to be approved by the editor in chief of the magazine before the shoot...so it's mostly been decide beforehand what the clothes will be...and then there's not much room for change...

but it depends...certainly if the photographer really hates something...he will usually say something...but usually the stylist/editor and the photographer have met and discussed the shoot beforehand...so once everyone is on set..there aren't too many surprises...

the hair and make up people take direction from the stylist and photographer...
adding their own interpretation of the direction they are given...
the stylist and photographer will usually decided beforehand who will direct the team...sometimes even bringing examples of the look they are after...and asking the hair and make up team to interpret these accordingly...

if the photographer and stylist work well together..the stylist may even direct the poses and the angles while on set...it can really be a strong collaboration if the team is strong...

but this all varies...hope this helps...

 

[solomonsdevalois]

Thank you so much, it gives me a better perspective on things.
So a stylist and photographer relationship, is a bit like make up artist and hair stylist (ie. Pat Mcgrath and Eugine S.)

Thanks again, you're an angel!

 

[softgrey]

you are very welcome...

so i would say that photog and sylist is MUCH more collaborative than hair and make up actually...they spend a lot of time discussing and preparing for the shoot...

whereas...usually the hair and make up team just sort of decide what they are going to do once they are at the shoot...the photographer and stylist also then may work together after the shoot on editing the film and selecting the images...they may even discuss re-touching...

hair and make up are really only involved during the shoot...not before or after...
and as i said...they usually are selected and given direction by the photographer and stylist...so they have far less input in the final product in general...but they are very important to the process too, of course...but more the way a model is...they interpret the ideas of the stylist and photographer...

i think good communication is the most important thing on any shoot...

 

[solomonsdevalois]

What about the model casting?

 

[softgrey]

photographer and stylist again....

 

[solomonsdevalois]

Thanks again,
grateful for advice!

 

[RastaFashion]

Hi everyone!
My question is so simple and too difficult to answer at once. So what do you think? Sucsessfull fashion story (editorial) is just a point of style, or it depends on professional level of photographer? Please, don't tell me that both of this person are equal, since it's not true. So. Stylist or Photographer? And why?
Thanks!

 

[Lena]

depends who brings the 'concept' in..
if the shooting is an idea developed by the photographer, the stylist needs to materialise the idea according to the photographer's vision
if it's the stylist who's responsible for the finished image, the photographer needs to follow directions.

in my case, at the end of the shooting, i'm responsible to deliver the correct image for our covers, somehow i represent my publication during the shooting, so the basic direction is up to me.
i always allow the photographers the freedom of presenting their very own 'take' on our cover, but i make sure i dont wrap the shooting before making sure that my 'view' is also been photographed.
i have more constant 'sense of the layout' than our photographers who can get easily get carried away for artistic reasons, providing me eith great shots which i will never be able to print.. but even then, i let them do their thing

its very important to built on a good relationship of mutual respect and collaboration with photographers (and hair&makeup team)
it always pays back to leave space for expression and respect or even boost the ego of the 'other' but the most important is getting the job done.

i know it may sound cliche but, it's true..
great results are built on good collaborations

 

[BetteT]

In my case, it's usually the photographer, but not always. I don't work for any particular magazine, so more often than not, the photographer brings me in to the shoot ... so that means he's in charge. But it's always very colaborative ... the entire team (including hair and makeup) creates the final product.

 

[RastaFashion]

Thanks Lena and Bette. Well, both of you talking about situation, when photographer & stylist are top level professionals. Let's imagine that photographer is "lame" and have no idea how to shoot fashion, but the stylist and make-up artist are perfect. What will happen in that case? Whether the stylist will be able to rescue shooting?

 

[Stylebites]

No, neither can "rescue" the shoot from the other if that person isn't good.

Same goes for teams that don't gel. I have a lot written about that at Stylebites.

See "The Photographer is Not God" and "Artists"

Don't worry though...for all the negative things that I can say after a bad shoot, I really, really love my good photographers!

 

[Lena]

Thanks Lena and Bette. Well, both of you talking about situation, when photographer & stylist are top level professionals. Let's imagine that photographer is "lame" and have no idea how to shoot fashion, but the stylist and make-up artist are perfect. What will happen in that case? Whether the stylist will be able to rescue shooting?

well, i believe that a really 'clever' stylist can 'save' a bad-photographer day.. but my question is : why should a good stylist work with a 'lame' photographer?

in my experience i have worked with too many 'semi-lame' photographers who eventually i help/direct so that my finished result is what i want.
if the photographer is 'lame' thats even one more reason for the stylist to take things at hand and bring in some inspiration.

i have no problem, telling non-creative photographers from which angle to shoot, to ask them to climb a chair or to change lights.. but i always try this with finesse, good manners and somehow without the whole team & model/celebrity understanding how useless the photographer is.

my advice in general, try to avoid working with photographers or stylists you dont share an 'eye'

 

[RastaFashion]

well, i believe that a really 'clever' stylist can 'save' a bad-photographer day...

You're absolutely right!!!

why should a good stylist work with a 'lame' photographer?

Sh**t happens, doesn't it?

And now tell me please, do you know any meiselnewtonavedon, who can do good editorial with bad styling?
Don't you think that the "Stylist is God" ©(Stylebites, thanks for an article

 

[Lena]

And now tell me please, do you know any meiselnewtonavedon, who can do good editorial with bad styling?

i have seen some real great editorials with minimum -or none- styling inspiration.. you need to remember that if we talk about meisel/newton etc, they use their stylists as wardrobe assistands, those guys are bth photographers and art directors in their shootings..
sfrom what i hae heard, sometimes while they shoot they dont even allow a stylist on set

as for me, stylist is no 'god' , i'm all for a successful group effort

 

[RastaFashion]

Well, to be honest, it's hard to imagine let's say Nicolletta Santoro, working as "wardrobe assistant" while Patrick is shooting

 

[Lena]

i dont even know who she is, sorry and what i posted above is not a rule ..

it's only that i've heard that some 'star' photographers are actually making the final choice when shooting, which doesnt leave too much space for a stylist, thats what i mean by 'wardrobe assistant'
star photographers can 'diminish' a stylist's opinion and of course, a star stylist can 'diminish' a rising photographer's statue, but basically, people choose to work only with who they like.

at the end , honestly, respecting co-creatives is the real key to a successful shooting , conflicting egos dont produce great work..

 

[BetteT]

There is no absolute rule ... and I'd say 80% of the time is really is a collaboration ... with one party or the other more in charge of the concept. If a stylist and a photographer click ... then they often form a team and the team is hired for their joint vision because it takes both of them to create it. If a photgrapher does not like having a stylist and he's hired for his vision, then there's no stylist. And ... If there is an art director, he/she guides the vision and all the others, (stylist, hair/makeup and the photographer) must fall in step with the art director. No rules ... just what ever works with the people involved.

 

[RastaFashion]

i dont even know who she is...

IMO she is a Goddess of STYLE

it's only that i've heard that some 'star' photographers are actually making the final choice when shooting, which doesnt leave too much space for a stylist

I got it offcourse.
What i'm actually trying to say, that with great style you may not need a genius photographer. But if style is bad, photographer (whoever it is) won't be able to create qualitative 'fashion story'

Anyway, i'm really appreciate you guy's took time to took part in this thread.
Thanks!!!

P.S. I'm shooting better, then speaking English. Sorry then

 

[Lena]

i think you always need a genious photographer

also, thanks for nicoletta's link
not sure if shes a goddess but she's quite good