Why Do Some Fashion Brands Last While Others Fade?

nationalsalt

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I was thinking recently about how many designers who seemed all the rage a decade or so ago have lost a fair amount of lustre / downsized their labels - or gone out of business entirely.

Zac Posen, Christopher Kane, Proenza Schouler, Thakoon (remember Anna Wintour hyping him up in The September Issue?), Mary Katrantzou, Peter Som etc. An abundance of creativity, yet the harsh realities of business have come for several of them already.

But still, other relatively young labels like Rick Owens, Thom Browne, Off White and Vetements have ridden the wave and seem (for now at least) to have cemented their status as global brands.

Is there a secret to the latters' success? Or is it just a combination of luck and finely tuned business sense?
 
I think the key is social media marketing. The brands that are better at it by creating viral images, i.e. Jacquemus, simply won younger generations. Sadly, that is today's reality, because if you are not on Instagram and you are not posting content there, your brand simply doesn't exist. But it's even more than that: if you aren't algorithm savvy nor have digital strategies, the chances your brand is going be visible to a wider audience are extremely low. Basically, brands that have cemented their success in the past 8 years, are brands that are not necessarily the most creative, but the ones that are the best at being visible to the masses.
 
It kinda seems like the some brands get well known on social media or even outside of social media and then it's just gone? People just find something new to obses about and because of that they don't really see it as a brand like BRAND or a designer like DESIGNER, they just see the hype about it and then bye bye because they don't really have time to be so recognized, it's just a new thing, a new thing, a new thing.....
 
It kinda seems like the some brands get well known on social media or even outside of social media and then it's just gone? People just find something new to obses about and because of that they don't really see it as a brand like BRAND or a designer like DESIGNER, they just see the hype about it and then bye bye because they don't really have time to be so recognized, it's just a new thing, a new thing, a new thing.....

Just curious... which brands are known 'outside social media'? I don't know of any in the past 10 years. The only ones are brands that had cemented their success decades before like Prada or Chanel. Old Céline might be the only exception I know of.

Then again, I totally agree regarding newness being always a factor to what people hype. The fashion industry relies on new things all the time.
 
i think it's simply because we are going against the nature of these things. to be a great designer and meeting someone right to build something with you is a calling. social media is created by people, and if people undermine themselves thinking this is all a math thing then it is going to be a math thing for them. maybe it's naive, but i still think the truly great are a dime a dozen. designers can't be designed, like tick these boxes and you become one. it's more than that. a brand represents a person's way of seeing. we have a whole generation of pretenders created out of a vacuum who look great playing the part but aren't actually the part they play. they give in very easily once the hype's gone. instant gratification kills the craft. just my 2 cents.
 
Sadly, that is today's reality, because if you are not on Instagram and you are not posting content there, your brand simply doesn't exist.

And the internet is currently a form of QVC. It's for companies who want to sell a lot, to a lot of people. Vuitton churns out products at the same pace as any high street store. Good for shareholders, I'm sure.
 
And the internet is currently a form of QVC. It's for companies who want to sell a lot, to a lot of people. Vuitton churns out products at the same pace as any high street store. Good for shareholders, I'm sure.
Absolutely!!!!!
 
I agree with @philophile that social media marketing plays a huge role in a brand's success. Lots of designers these days have to act image directors on top of fashion design. I don't necessarily think that virality is the key, but I'd say that there's much heavier emphasis on the production of advertising images to stay in the minds of potential clients.

It's not just Jacquemus, much smaller brands are producing so many digital material to promote for each collection: pre-show images, runway film and images, post-show images, behind-the-scenes, pre-collection images, campaign film and images. Double it and all off the off-season content (bag releases, collaborations, celebrity) and these brands are producing new content every month.

Unfortunately, this digital-centric approach leaks into how this generation of designers make their clothes. They design their clothes in service of an image direction rather than forming an image direction around a sartorial proposition. Bulky silhouettes and stiff fabrics that are awkward to move in. Colours that make the wearer look sick and pale in natural lighting. Sloppy seams, linings and finishings and if the construction is well done, it's extremely simplistic.

As I say this, I don't see many from this generation surviving. With the noticeable exception of Jacquemus, all of thes indie brands are all fighting over the exact same extremely clientele: people who are weird enough to wear the clothes, rich enough to afford them and young enough to have the lifestyle that accommodates them. Once the clientele reaches working age, they're moving on.
 
Is there a secret to the latters' success? Or is it just a combination of luck and finely tuned business sense?
There is no secret. Different eras and types of markets are overlapping in your post, with very different conditions that should be judged individually.

Zac Posen peaked with his debut in 2001. It really does not get better for him than in those first years when he had the biggest models in his show and was featured routinely in mainstream media, huge shows like SATC and all over the pages of Vogue every single month. He was Anna Wintour's 'golden boy'. Proenza Schouler were close behind. Like most designers/models/anything Anna Wintour overhypes, they benefitted from her 'absolutism' in fashion and the monopoly of Vogue. Social media is a new form of media but media was no less aggressive then, just more authoritarian because even if you scratched your head wondering why something clearly subpar was being pushed down your throat, you thought you were alone. I think many consumers who supported these labels because they were Vogue-approved would not have been able to give a compelling, detailed answer at the time on why they were great and deserving of sky-rocketing success.

Christopher Kane was essentially the same but in London and for the late 00s.

What all of these 3 have in common (which gained them a lot of criticism at the time), is that they were extremely limited, borderline fraudulent designers. They were skirts and dresses labels that anchored their entire success on simply changing the theme/color/texture of the same pieces. Kane was the worst at it and also the best example. From his debut in the summer of 2006, he comfortably relied on the hype, presenting essentially the same collection and it's not until 8 years (!!) later, for fall of 2014, when he creates a more cohesive collection but by the time, it was too little too late, and attention had already waned.

When you're this limited and rely on costume-y themes that embody popular trends that speak to the youth of the time, you inevitably confine yourself to generational appeal and generations always repel what the previous generation worshipped so that's their death sentence.

Off-White and Vetements were founded over a decade later in 2014, as social media and influencers are on the rise. We're only a decade after their foundation and just like Posen and Kane in 2014, they're already irrelevant (Vetements) or on their way with no return (OW), and probably scrambling, but it's too late for them to break out of the cage they built for themselves.. even if they did try to present more than just streetwear and suddenly came up with, say, a collection of perfectly tailored trousers or timeless shirts (lol), they represent a generation of tumblr and whatnot, things will just never be as good as they were for them in 2015 no matter who is the genius behind their social media because each generation is composed by different information, vocabulary and ambitions and most of all, a need to distinguish themselves from the previous one and social media (or any form of media) is not stronger than that.

.. and RO is everything but a young label. Same wave that brought Miguel Adrover and reliant on the same market that consumed Carol Christian Poell. More niche/word-of-mouth with still no need of Vogue nor SM. RO is kind of a joke now but he was not a one-trick pony or presenting the same sweatshirt or skirt with different colors, and he built a solid business, that's why he endures and why despite his ridiculousness and horniness taking the wheel of his shows these days, his label will most likely outlive Off-White.
 
Lots of designers these days have to act image directors on top of fashion design. I don't necessarily think that virality is the key, but I'd say that there's much heavier emphasis on the production of advertising images to stay in the minds of potential clients.

Unfortunately, this digital-centric approach leaks into how this generation of designers make their clothes. They design their clothes in service of an image direction rather than forming an image direction around a sartorial proposition.

I wholeheartedly agree with all this. Like people were mentioning in the Jacquemus' thread, he is more like a content creator rather than a designer and that's what someone like Rick Owens sadly seems to me nowadays too. However, this is not just happening in fashion, it's happening in music, art, and cinema. Taylor Swift, for instance, can be absolutely described as more of a content creator than an artist/musician and she was indeed the first one who gave Instagram emphasis, which I believe has been the key to her incredible success. Any public figure having a strong social media influence will manage to stay relevant with a modest amount of talent, but a gigantic will to create content for shock value which will lead to likes, engagement, sales and a bigger exposure to a larger audience. Of course, regarding fashion brands, the fact that they are able to now expand their audience through influencers and product placement has also been a game changer. And I doubt this will change anytime soon as long as there is social media and everyone being active on it.

I think what you are mentioning regarding the digital-centric approach being a decisive factor in how designers make their clothes nowadays instead of forming an image direction around a sartorial proposition is yet another great point to add to the thread on the 'Fashion In Depth' section, which discusses why fashion is in the state it is today.

Furthermore, I do think you are also right regarding this Instagram image-centric generation of designers not standing the test of time once their audience outgrows them or at least their fashion in itself won't.
 
I wholeheartedly agree with all this. Like people were mentioning in the Jacquemus' thread, he is more like a content creator rather than a designer and that's what someone like Rick Owens sadly seems to me nowadays too. However, this is not just happening in fashion, it's happening in music, art, and cinema. Taylor Swift, for instance, can be absolutely described as more of a content creator than an artist/musician and she was indeed the first one who gave Instagram emphasis, which I believe has been the key to her incredible success. Any public figure having a strong social media influence will manage to stay relevant with a modest amount of talent, but a gigantic will to create content for shock value which will lead to likes, engagement, sales and a bigger exposure to a larger audience. Of course, regarding fashion brands, the fact that they are able to now expand their audience through influencers and product placement has also been a game changer. And I doubt this will change anytime soon as long as there is social media and everyone being active on it.

I think what you are mentioning regarding the digital-centric approach being a decisive factor in how designers make their clothes nowadays instead of forming an image direction around a sartorial proposition is yet another great point to add to the thread on the 'Fashion In Depth' section, which discusses why fashion is in the state it is today.

Furthermore, I do think you are also right regarding this Instagram image-centric generation of designers not standing the test of time once their audience outgrows them or at least their fashion in itself won't.

To continue this vein, who of the younger / more recent crop of designers would you say has managed to build a successful brand without compromising their artistic integrity for an Instagram-centric approach?
 
.

Christopher Kane was essentially the same but in London and for the late 00s.

What all of these 3 have in common (which gained them a lot of criticism at the time), is that they were extremely limited, borderline fraudulent designers. They were skirts and dresses labels that anchored their entire success on simply changing the theme/color/texture of the same pieces. Kane was the worst at it and also the best example. From his debut in the summer of 2006, he comfortably relied on the hype, presenting essentially the same collection and it's not until 8 years (!!) later, for fall of 2014, when he creates a more cohesive collection but by the time, it was too little too late, and attention had already waned.
....Christopher Kane, presenting essentially the same collection? If anything it was the opposite, he was Patient Zero for kicking off the mid-late 00s bandage dress revival with his MA collection, and used to switch up his collections every season eg A/W 2007 going heavy on leather, velvet and flared silhouettes, spring 2008 being much lighter and layered/geometric etc. The design merits of his stuff might be up for debate but he never really settled on a gimmick the way Katrantzou etc did.
 
To continue this vein, who of the younger / more recent crop of designers would you say has managed to build a successful brand without compromising their artistic integrity for an Instagram-centric approach?
From the younger generation I can't think of anyone anymore. They are mostly either designing gimmicks for the gram (take Duran Lantink, which seems to be a fashion editor's favorite) or have taken a super boring and derivative direction.

I used to think of younger designers having potential like Isa Boulder, Supriya Lele, Mônot, Aya Muse, Materiel Tbilisi, Aleksandre Akhalkatsishvili, Nensi Dojaka, Han Kjøbenhavn, Heliot Emil, Juun.J, Grace Ling, amongst others but most of them have fallen in the categories I've mentioned earlier or have not shown much range/creativity over time. Others are playing with the concept of deconstructing clothes, but they do it to such an extreme, it all looks like rags and loses completely its functionality.
I have hopes for Shanghai based Oude Waag, because there is potential there, but the brand is extremely young and might end up being disappointing.

The only two brands that I will mention (but they are not that new) are Christopher Esber and A.W.A.K.E. Mode who have been doing their thing from the very beginning and continue doing it. While their latest collections haven't been as strong as a few years back, they still deliver some beautiful pieces. Both of these brands have shown a wide range and tons of creativity since the very beginning and while they still haven't completely cemented their success, I wholeheartedly hope that they do in the near future. Christopher Esber just won the prestigious French ANDAM Grand Prize for fashion, so I hope this means that his label has a bright future ahead.

Hopefully, Nicolas de Felice will not only keep up the good work for Courrèges, but will get much better at it. I think there is potential there but you never know.... I thought the same about Peter Do, Khaite, Coperni, Dion Lee, Bevza, and Magda Butrym, but they have not shown much of their promising talent in the past years.
 
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Additionally, I think genuinely creative emerging designers/brands do not get the support they need and end up bankrupt or needing to take a different direction for the sake of sales and surviving. Take people on this forum: you'll never see anyone promoting or posting them, only already established labels. But it's the same with Instagram as everyone there needs to flex something from the same old fashion powerhouses with their big logos. Nobody seems to care about genuine, honest, and creative fashion anymore, it's all just about status symbols to display on the gram.

The Instagram algorithm either favors the establishment designer houses, the gimmicky labels, or the super boring 'quiet luxury' ones (because that's the 'hottest' trend at the moment) and sadly, it is not only dictating what people buy as it dictates what gets actually seen, but it is also shaping our culture, which I find super dangerous. Basically, algorithmic culture is creating a fashion monopoly.
 
Additionally, I think genuinely creative emerging designers/brands do not get the support they need and end up bankrupt or needing to take a different direction for the sake of sales and surviving. Take people on this forum: you'll never see anyone promoting or posting them, only already established labels. But it's the same with Instagram as everyone there needs to flex something from the same old fashion powerhouses with their big logos. Nobody seems to care about genuine, honest, and creative fashion anymore, it's all just about status symbols to display on the gram.

The Instagram algorithm either favors the establishment designer houses, the gimmicky labels, or the super boring 'quiet luxury' ones (because that's the 'hottest' trend at the moment) and sadly, it is not only dictating what people buy as it dictates what gets actually seen, but it is also shaping our culture, which I find super dangerous. Basically, algorithmic culture is creating a fashion monopoly.
Absolutely. I wouldn't be suprised if the next two decades bring an era of designers and brands trying to bring in collaborative Dover Street Market type spaces as a way to rebel against this overdependence on digital channels.
 
From the younger generation I can't think of anyone anymore. They are mostly either designing gimmicks for the gram (take Duran Lantink, which seems to be a fashion editor's favorite) or have taken a super boring and derivative direction.

I used to think of younger designers having potential like Isa Boulder, Supriya Lele, Mônot, Aya Muse, Materiel Tbilisi, Aleksandre Akhalkatsishvili, Nensi Dojaka, Han Kjøbenhavn, Heliot Emil, Juun.J, Grace Ling, amongst others but most of them have fallen in the categories I've mentioned earlier or have not shown much range/creativity over time. Others are playing with the concept of deconstructing clothes, but they do it to such an extreme, it all looks like rags and loses completely its functionality.
I have hopes for Shanghai based Oude Waag, because there is potential there, but the brand is extremely young and might end up being disappointing.

The only two brands that I will mention (but they are not that new) are Christopher Esber and A.W.A.K.E. Mode who have been doing their thing from the very beginning and continue doing it. While their latest collections haven't been as strong as a few years back, they still deliver some beautiful pieces. Both of these brands have shown a wide range and tons of creativity since the very beginning and while they still haven't completely cemented their success, I wholeheartedly hope that they do in the near future. Christopher Esber just won the prestigious French ANDAM Grand Prize for fashion, so I hope this means that his label has a bright future ahead.

Hopefully, Nicolas de Felice will not only keep up the good work for Courrèges, but will get much better at it. I think there is potential there but you never know.... I thought the same about Peter Do, Khaite, Coperni, Dion Lee, Bevza, and Magda Butrym, but they have not shown much of their promising talent in the past years.

You've put me on to several designers I wasn't familiar with there, thanks!

And now I'm curious...these aren't "new" designers, but are relatively new at heading their respective labels; what do you think of Daniel Roseberry, Pieter Mulier, Casey Cadwallader and Matthieu Blazy?
 
Daniel Roseberry: Everything but Schiaparelli.
Pieter Mulier: Alaïa made of cardboard.
Casey Cadwallader: Mugler as a sex-shop
Matthieu Blazy: Desperately wanting to replicate Daniel Lee success at BV.
 

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