Is Fashion In a Period of Stasis? Why Isnt Fashion Getting Better? Are we in a Rut?

Could it be that we the younger generation simply isn't passionate enough and will readily accept anything that is thrown our way. The way I see it, we whine and complain about everything, yet we're hesitant to take the necessary steps to effect the changes we'd like to see. Taking US Vogue as an example, many people who buy the magazine complain about seeing the same thing over and over, they're tired of seeing celebs on the cover of every issue blah blah blah, but how many are prepared to cancel their subscriptions, sign a petition demanding to see something different etc... When Anna says she pays no attentions to market research, she's right because the magazine still sells.

Another problem is that as much as the industry likes change, they stick to what they know works and are afraid of taking chances on emerging talent. Every campaign is shot by the same photographers, styled by the same stylists etc in rotation. These guys while brilliant at what they do, aren't always going to have the "freshest" ideas. They will start reproducing things that have already been done... Going back to the grunge and punk era and when Galliano was starting, he was fresh out of St. Martins but Arnault took a chance on him and look at what he was able to do for the brand. Now it's all about celebrity and becoming a household name so if you're wearing it then everyone will want a piece of it. This is why so many Hollywood celebrities are suddenly designers and producing collections and it will continue because it sells. This is a great example of pissing in people's eyes and calling it rain...

We need new blood, something to inspire us and people who enjoy taking risks. We also need to learn to unite and stand for what we want. That's the only way change is going to happen not by complaining yet doing nothing.

I canceled my US Vogue subscription awhile back, and have bought no issues from the newsstand since ...

One thing I've noticed lately as I shop for something to wear to my brother's wedding ... Lanvin's draping seems to have ruined me for anyone else's. As I look at what's out there, I'm struck by all the bad draping. So basic, a fundamental skill, and yet so lacking. Wouldn't it be nice to see the pendulum swing back from celebrity and publicity (the designers' own & who's wearing whom) to actual skills ... draping, pattern making, fitting.

Stefano Pilati's YSL things have also been standing out to me as particularly well done.
 
I canceled my US Vogue subscription awhile back, and have bought no issues from the newsstand since ...

One thing I've noticed lately as I shop for something to wear to my brother's wedding ... Lanvin's draping seems to have ruined me for anyone else's. As I look at what's out there, I'm struck by all the bad draping. So basic, a fundamental skill, and yet so lacking. Wouldn't it be nice to see the pendulum swing back from celebrity and publicity (the designers' own & who's wearing whom) to actual skills ... draping, pattern making, fitting.

Stefano Pilati's YSL things have also been standing out to me as particularly well done.


This would be nice to see, it's embarrassing to see these absolutely basic skills not being mastered in not just high fashion houses, but also registered haute couture houses at the highest end, Dior and Valentino to name a few.
 
I think that maybe everythings already been done? Sure there have been modern twists and changes to trends, but if you actually get down to the base of everything, there isn't anything new!
 
This would be nice to see, it's embarrassing to see these absolutely basic skills not being mastered in not just high fashion houses, but also registered haute couture houses at the highest end, Dior and Valentino to name a few.

Agreed ... and while my heart naturally bleeds for the couture customer :innocent:, it's also a crying shame that things are so bad at the contemporary price point. It's still a fair amount of money, and some of these 'designers' have been in the business for decades. So ... shouldn't they be turning out better stuff?

There are relatively few top fashion schools, but I know people are being trained in these skills ... how has this kind of quality become so optional?
 
Postmodern subculture, it is argued by some, can be defined as anything that stands counter to the patterns of consumption and behaviors of the hegemony. Many of you have argued that there has been no development in subcultural style at the dawn of the 21st century, but this simply isn't true. Two of the best examples I can use to illustrate this are the club Boombox in East London and Mishapes in New York.

The history of subculture can invariably be traced back to clubs and nightlife, and I think in this case both these two phenomenological events encouraged and spawned the 'hipster' trend, a look and lifestyle choice rooted in dressing up and going out. Both these clubs - perhaps more so in London - were intense, heady and encouraged outrageous, remarkable fashion. Very little visually interesting surfaced amongst the mainstream, but the important aspects - colours, silhouettes, themes and objects - resonated strongly as mainstream trends, be that briefly (slogan t-shirts) or more sustained (skinny trousers)

It is hard to see it sometimes but I believe that our age is as unique and exciting as ever it has been. The problem more so is our insatiable appetite for something new, as if there hasn't been progress enough in the last decade, threads such as this one appear as a slap in the face to any departure that has been cannily developed by artists, designers and musicians over the course of the 00s. Change happens but only when it needs to. Just be patient.
 
Innovation on tap

I think its important to remember the conditions designers work in nowadays, its all harder, faster, newer. It takes a lot of willpower for a designer these days to opt out of that system (I'm thinking of the relentless fashion weeks/months and growing influence of the resort/pre-fall collections), and most are drowned by it and simply don't have the time or space to create or innovate. They're simply too busy trying to survive. The more stressed they are the more they will rely on designs they know will work, and keep it safe.

I reckon the new changes we'll see in the industry will relate more to the design process - as the fashion media undergoes this massive upheaval and democratisation, it will * hopefully * lose its ability to bully designers into producing their art at such regular intervals, and it will * hopefully * shift towards more power to the designers. High end, innovative fashion will become less seasonally focused, and hopefully less repetitive. (Why are they so seasonal now anyway? Luxury customers can buy their wellington boots and sun hats somewhere else. High Fashion isn't about practicality and we all know it.) Designers will only show a collection when they feel they have truly innovated (well obviously not all of them will, but I'm thinking of the more couture/inspirational ones).

If innovation shifts towards the process of design and the way people actually work, we might start seeing more genuinely innovative design . Designers might even have the time to develop innovative business models that work for them (like YSL's rive gauche). Its not just about aesthetics anymore, because its fair to say that if you try to innovate from a purely aesthetic viewpoint you're just going to end up repeating yourself. Like has been said earlier, it has to come from somewhere real and authentic. That level of creativity doesn't come on tap, and its not going to happen predictably every 3 months.
 
This is a fascinating thread. Something that I have been thinking about quite a bit for the past few years. I am in my thirties, so I seem to have this hazy recollection of watching it all slide away towards the close of the nineties - and I can't even really articulate what I mean, it's a sort of instinctual notion, an awareness of something 'lost' (and not in the nostalgic sense).
Or maybe I simply grew up???

What would my 16 yr old self make of this, now?
I haven't even really altered very much in this respect. I do recall that we were agonizingly embarrassed to follow trends, to run with the system, so to speak (even if our collective styles were obviously inspired by each other, and those whose ideals we admired). We would have curled up in agony before blindly taking the media's word for anything, let alone cared a jot about what a member of the royal family was wearing.

And perhaps this is what I sense is absent now: following something for the sake of ideals, rather than surface appearance. I don't recall any girls of my generation fawning over female celebrities to this extent, even if they were sartorially inspired on occasion. Nobody gave a **** to be honest. The excessive idolization of women in the media (enhanced via tumblr and the likes) who offer nothing other than a prettily dressed visage feels like some sort of contemporary malaise to me. It's as if their minds are locked into this in a somewhat unhealthy way. This endless perusal (or worship?) of wealth, privilege and physical perfection, which of course they shall never even hope to attain (for it is an illusion).
And yeh, capitalism and all that. But why isn't anyone moving? Resisting? Creating their own space?

I wonder if the impressionable (younger) people today are simply overwhelmed by it all, paralyzed into inaction. Too much stimulus. Desensitization. I don't know.
This is merely my own, emotional reaction to the topic, rather than an informed forecast, for I do not possess any thorough knowledge of the industry itself. This is just what I see going on around me. How I feel it compares to a couple of decades past.

My guess is that people are confused. There's just too much going on. Too much to get angry about. Perhaps passion can't find it's feet in the throng...
I have confidence in change, though. Perhaps it is already in process, and only a retrospective glance backwards from a future date will be able to clarify that.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Is fashion too safe?

60a01e5e-0950-11e1-8e86-00144feabdc0.img
By Vanessa Friedman


‘Fashion is predicated on giving people what they did not know they wanted’
Is fashion too safe? Not fashion that you see in stores (though that is part of it), but Fashion the industry. Fashion writ large.
Sitting at the side of the catwalks as the New York shows get under way, kicking off the autumn/winter womenswear collections that will run until March 5, it’s the whisper I hear in the background; just audible under the stomp of the models’ perennial motorcycle boots. It’s what you might call a thought-trend.

Word is that retailers will no longer take gambles on new designers, or on old designers with new looks, or on any look that doesn’t look like the last look that sold well, because they make their buy according to the buy that worked the season before – because it is (say it with me) safer.
Black pea coats flew off the shelves this autumn? Whatever you do, do not order floral-patterned car coats – even if it’s spring. More minimal pea coats (albeit maybe not in wool); that’s what everyone should buy! X designer’s narrow trousers were popular, but not so his flouro knits? Stick to the trousers, even if the new skinny knits look kind of tempting.
Designers don’t push their ideas, because a complicated idea is actually too complicated to explain: the listener stops paying attention somewhere in the middle of “then I went from thinking of Napoleon to The Beatles and Sergeant Pepper, which made me think of Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell, and then I started thinking about ice hockey players ... that’s how I got to lamé silk boxers”.
Er, OK. Easier just to seize on the most accessible form of inspiration: a film or a song, and express that in various permutations on the catwalk and in those endless “what inspired me” pieces in magazines: “I was thinking of The Great Gatsby.”
Open any glossy magazine and there, staring from advertisements and editorial alike are Christy Turlington, Kate Moss, Stephanie Seymour – old models and proven sales vehicles. The same goes for all those celebrities whose contracts get bigger and bigger even as the viewing public declares itself to be over the stars-sells-stuff idea. No matter: go with the known.
There is no room for risk or new ideas or new faces, because new is risky and we’re in a no-risk period. As with the banking system, so, too the fashion system.
There are of course outliers, designers for whom writing their own rules is the rule – Rei Kawakubo, Jun Takahashi, Hedi Slimane (it is possible the risk, both financial and critical, that Kering took when they installed the latter at Saint Laurent and gave him carte blanche to up-end all aesthetics and communication is the riskiest thing to have happened in fashion in years). But generally: safety first. Ask why, and everyone passes the blame.
. . .
It’s the darn retailers’ fault, goes one version, because they demand new stuff all the time. Which means designers have to do 10 collections a year, which means they don’t have time to work out new ideas, which means they might get stuck with bad ideas, so best avoid the danger entirely, and redo the old good idea. Or it’s the money guys’ fault because they need to show revenue growth, and that means they dare not try something unknown. What if it doesn’t work? Better to fill shelves with what already sells, because, well, it already sells!
Or it’s the mass marketers’ fault, because they are schooled to put all their faith in market research, and market research loves what it has already seen, and there is no market research on that new girl in the corner. After all, how do you assess the potential of a weird, left-of-field viral video, which would only work because no one has done it before, if no one has done it before?
But here’s the thing: all this safeness, and risk-avoidance, all the stuff we think we want when it comes to the City and Wall Street, is antithetical to the way fashion should work. Fashion – at least the fashion of the show system; the fashion that drives changes in clothing, or at least expresses them – is predicated on giving people what they did not know they wanted. In fashion, there is no such thing as too big to fail. You have to be willing to fail in order to really succeed.
It is what makes you want to buy something: the shock of seeing a dress or suit or sweater that exactly describes how you’ve been feeling, in a way you didn’t even articulate to yourself until you saw it. That’s why Dior’s New Look, and Armani’s suits, and Chanel’s little tweed jackets, and Thom Browne’s truncated men’s silhouette caused such a ruckus, and ended up in museums everywhere: they defined a moment in social and political identity.

And that requires risk, because until they gave it form, no one really knew what form that amorphous feeling they were feeling should take. To give up on that possibility – to avoid it in favour of the familiar – is to circumvent fashion’s reason for being (it is to turn it into clothes). And that leads, soon enough, to obsolescence. Yet here we are.
The fact is, for fashion, that playing it safe may be the greatest risk of all.
Here’s hoping this season will be different. I dare you.

ft.com

*i'm pretty sure there's another thread where i talked about exactly this- about originality and new ideas, etc...
and buyers playing it safe and afraid to take risks, etc...
but i don't know which one it is....
if a mod knows better- please feel free to move or merge...
thx

it's all related anyhow...
i think we have a few threads that could be merged on this basic topic of unoriginality and whether the wheel moves to fast, and such...
it's all part of the same discussion and cannot really be had in separate threads without some overlap
 
Last edited by a moderator:
^ I totally agree with your final point softgrey, about the overlap, because I found myself thinking, as I was reading the piece you posted, that maybe if there were less shows, designers would have more time to experiment, to be creative in their showrooms, to source new fabrics, to do research. When they are churning out a minimum of 4 collections (spring pre fall fall and pre spring/resort) - and sometimes for more than 1 line - how the heck are they supposed to come up with something new!? Instead it's tweak this tweak that, etc. Sigh... it's too much. The wheel spinning fast takes away the room for play. That's how I see it. But there are many vectors; of course the economy would have an impact on buyers and so on .... safe. BLAH.
 
I completely agree that the speed at which the industry moves now means that trends and movements are so much more fleeting.

I dont think that we will have big movements like we did in previous decades, not because the industry is treading water but more because the cycle of collections and trends flows so quickly that there isn't really time to develop and expand a movement.
 
This is a very interesting topic and now it is even more relevant than ever. Fashion is indeed in a period of stasis, at least when viewed from certain perspectives. I started following fashion only in 2008 and I have to say I long for those days. Stefano Pilati's YSL S.S 2008 collection drew me in as I found it weird yet functional; it was a totally different picture of what had been painted to me as an outsider. Fashion was all about frills, ruffles and pretty dresses to me, before then. I also think of Nicolas Ghesquiere at Balenciaga; Fall 2008, the wonderful futuristic Spring 2009 etc, and how those collections made me wonder in excitement. While some may say that the sentiment attached to the period when one firsts discovers a new passion may create a biased view, I somewhat disagree as I even prefer many collections from these designers' pasts from long before I started following fashion; Hedi Slimane's old YSL days for instance.

Having just seen most of NYFW S.S 2015, it is safe to say the bar has been greatly lowered. A good example that illustrates this point is Rodarte. I "loved" their latest collection but that was almost entirely circumstantial, considering their most recent monstrosities. A couple of years back, this collection would have been a huge let down. Of course with the rise of the social media where more people are informed and have better access to fashion, and an increasingly volatile market especially in the West, it is understandable why designers nowadays lean towards making more commercial stuff. However, it may also be an indication that there are little or no more solid ideas that can start a reasonable conversion on how fashion should evolve for the next decade. Every collection is "inspired" by the past nowadays and they take it way to literally than it should be. If it's not that, then we have the likes of Monsieur Slimane making couture versions of Forever 21, H&M etc, and yet the press has caved in to his regressive formula. Even my dear Raf Simons, who I still admire greatly; isn't doing as well as I expect him to, i.e when I compare him to his own past at Jil Sander. Considering the circumstances of this lowered bar now, I still love his collections at Dior. A guy who is actually pushing forward the envelope, Josef Font at Delpozo, who season after season has been consistent and forward looking yet functional, isn't given enough press attention. One wonders why this is the case.
 
Very interesting topic. I think Daphne Guiness' answer says it all: "corporate".
 
I think after the financial decline, everyone started playing it safe. I feel like a lot more designers, even the most respected ones, are starting to copy one another. And now that critics no longer say what they really feel and the designers are becoming invincible celebrities, designers aren't changing anything they do. Nowadays, designers seem more interested in being praised and having celebrity friends, and all the corporations just want good press and money. The art in fashion is disappearing to make it more palatable to a larger population, so that more money can be made. And considering the turnover rate for designers, I think a lot of them take the safer commercial route so that they can sell a lot and make loads of money so they don't get fired. Not many designers have job security now.
 
I will try to say as little as possible.
but i do believe that a lot has been done during the 20th century - from silhouettes works, from A to T to Dior New Look, to the deconstruction anti-Fashion etc.

It is thus very difficult to invent new forms, and propose new innovative objects, pieces, looks, outfits.
i think the most interesting would be working with innovating in new fabrics, and recycling old stuff. there are an instagram about this: _archiveproject / and a www jaaarchives.com
 
looking through older magazines, watching older shows, it's pretty apparent that fashion has been standing quite still for the last 10 years or so. i mean, if you would have watched something in 2004 that was made 10 years ago, the fashion would be outlandish. meanwhile, if you watch some shows from 2004 now, a lot of the looks would still be quite alright.

take the OC for example, Mischa Barton's boho chic would still work, same with Rachel Bilson's looks. and everyone would still look tons better in the looks from Gossip Girl.

meanwhile, no one in 2004 would have wanted to dress like a character from a show from 1997.
 
looking through older magazines, watching older shows, it's pretty apparent that fashion has been standing quite still for the last 10 years or so. i mean, if you would have watched something in 2004 that was made 10 years ago, the fashion would be outlandish. meanwhile, if you watch some shows from 2004 now, a lot of the looks would still be quite alright.

take the OC for example, Mischa Barton's boho chic would still work, same with Rachel Bilson's looks. and everyone would still look tons better in the looks from Gossip Girl.

meanwhile, no one in 2004 would have wanted to dress like a character from a show from 1997.
Even though my preferences don´t lie with boho or gossip girl outfits, I know what you mean, buuuut at the same time today a lot of looks would work including some from ´97 or ´87, ´77 ´67, ´57 and so on, I think that is more because we have entered fashions postmodernism rather than because there has not been a worthy development in recent years. imho
 
looking through older magazines, watching older shows, it's pretty apparent that fashion has been standing quite still for the last 10 years or so. i mean, if you would have watched something in 2004 that was made 10 years ago, the fashion would be outlandish. meanwhile, if you watch some shows from 2004 now, a lot of the looks would still be quite alright.

take the OC for example, Mischa Barton's boho chic would still work, same with Rachel Bilson's looks. and everyone would still look tons better in the looks from Gossip Girl.

meanwhile, no one in 2004 would have wanted to dress like a character from a show from 1997.

one possible answer to this is that studios are simply spending more on costumes. i think studios may also pool wardrobe resources for different shows. you can see evidence of this resource.

for example on the show "friends" in the 90's i remember aniston's character wearing a lot of current items from the inexpensive mall clothing store express.

i have never watched the TV show "the good wife", but the clothes i've seen in the promo images and stills look fantastic. they are also very expensive.
 
I find fashion incredibly dull at the moment... Money always ruled it alongside creativity but the second aspect seems to have become optional... I am also tired seeing endless recycling (sometimes shameless copying) of old ideas.. Even the greatests like Meisel or Lindbergh seem to be engaged in endless recreating of their old work... I think M&M is the worst thing that could have happened to fashion... They've completely drained it of any spirit it had... The doors of fashion were always open to superficiallity but these two eradicated all the character... Lines dissapeared from faces, everyone and anyone can look perfect, etc. Also, the photographers that seem to be doing something interesting get secondary jobs only... In terms of clothes the majority of designers seem to be playing safe all the time which becomes so boring... Especially, menswear...
 
OMG absolutely fashion is in a rut. I first started being interested in fashion back in 2005. It was back in the day when designers were actually creative and respected the heritage of the brand they were working at it. I remember when the model actually knew how to walk and looked incredibly fierce. Sure, Nepotism had a role in fashion, but not as big of a one as it does today. Lydia Hearst did not get as much as hype or as big as Kendall and Gigi have gotten.

It seems as if the fashion industry is no longer about exclusive elegance like it used to be. Nowadays, the industry's more concerned about relevance and popularity... appealing to the new-age young consumer whose celebrity obsessed and constantly uses social media. (I'm 20 but I'm not celebrity obsessed). Carine, Karl and Ricardo all want to appeal to the younger crowd which is not necessarily elegant. That's why their associating with Justin Bieber, Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian. Years ago, designers laughed at Kim wanting to wear their stuff and be associated with them. They wouldn't give her the time of day. But because of her own popularity, they associate with her because they figure they can gain popularity off of it.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

New Posts

Forum Statistics

Threads
212,702
Messages
15,196,672
Members
86,683
Latest member
likan8
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "058526dd2635cb6818386bfd373b82a4"
<-- Admiral -->