Antwerp Six: Belgium Avant Garde | Page 2 | the Fashion Spot

Antwerp Six: Belgium Avant Garde

I think real distinction in Dirk Van Saene's work is the sweetness and humour. I think the best way to describe his work is if you were take Eley Kishimoto,Antoni & Alison & early United Bamboo and twist them all together. But with a certain Belgian sensibility.

Here's an interview he did with Hint back in 2001:
http://www.hintmag.com/theoutsider/dirk1.htm
 
Here's some Van Saene images(I wish I could get hold of some of his earlier stuff):

A/W 04-
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That's all I can find for now. Oh...did I tell anybody(may not mean anything)but I remember Dirk walking pass me on the street....of course it didn't even phase me at that very moment. If I had realized at that moment I would have stopped him to chat.
 
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droogist said:
Yes :flower:, only there were 6: Ann Demeulemeester, Dirk Bikkembergs, Dirk van Saene, Dries van Noten, Walter van Beirondonck, Marina Yee

lotta van's...
thanks for the list droogist...i was hoping someone would do that..:flower: :flower:

thanks for starting the thread travolta...and to everyone who is contributing...

OT-LENA..!!!...:buzz:
 
nice topic guys.:flower:

my favorite is dries but i also like marina and walter a lot, and some of demeulemeester's stuff too. i think i havent seen enough of the dirk van saene to make a conclusion so i'll wait for more pics.:D

i really dont like dirk bikkembergs. :mellow:
 
skeeterbe said:
These are two excellent books on 'belgian' fashion (if such thing exists :blink:) from a couple of years ago. Both should still be available on amazon. The first one is the most comprehensive and concentrates on the 'first' generation; the second one only covers six of the new kids on the block (well, new at the time of publication! Veronique / X Delcour / Vandevorst etc...).

I have both, and I recommend them to everyone. The only weird thing about them is that Raf Simons is in both :lol: .


My favorite of the lot is Ann Demeulmeester, as you all know. I lover her aesthetic, her fine line between edge and sweetness, confidence and timidity, simplicity and complexity. I love the sence of romance, mistery and subtlety that her clothes exude.

I used to like Dirk Bikkimbergs a lot, but Milan spoiled him big time. I still think that he is a good craftsman, and I'll never part with his older footwear that I own. Russians (in Russia) love him :shock:, don't know why.

I love Dries's clothes for women, they are very sweet and feminine, very airy. I don't really like his menswear, I beleive it lacks character. I respect him though, and I respect his strive to keep the prices lower than most other designers out there. I don't know if you guys remember the NY Times article, but he expressely stated that that is why he never advertises.

As far as the rest, I never really got Bierendonck's circus, I thought it was pretty damn ugly.


As far as what made them stand out as a group, and what attracts me to Belgian fashion in general: I think that fashion was due for a revolution - NYC, Milan and Paris were dead as dead can be in the late 80's. The Belgians brought a certain freshness to it. It was not pretensious, it was neither ARISTOCRATIC Paris, nor TACKY Milan, nor BORING New York. It wasn't screaming for attention, it was not gimmicky, it was just beautiful, wearable clothes of the highest quality. And it was so different, so thought out - and thought is probably what attracts me to Belgians most. Ann always talks about the amount of thought that goes into her designs, and I just love that. So I think that's what made them -- their refined, subtle, intelligent aesthetic, coupled with high quality artisanship. And not only them - look who came after: Margiela, Raf Simons, A.F. Vandevorst, Jurgi Persoons - all brilliant IN THEIR OWN WAY.

Ok, I'm moving to Antwerp, that's it :lol:
 
thanks faust - maybe I should read one of those books.

so was there any aesthetic cohesion amoungst the six or just a philosophical one? They all look different to me.
 
helena said:
thanks faust - maybe I should read one of those books.

so was there any aesthetic cohesion amoungst the six or just a philosophical one? They all look different to me.

No... there's no aesthetic cohesion whatsoever! Thats what bothers me a bit when people talk about 'Belgian' fashion - there's no such thing, really. The original Antwerp six were all very individual in style and they are miles apart in their vision - now just as much as in the beginning.

I believe the first underlying common thread is the Antwerp fashion academy - where most of the 'Belgians' studied. It is considered to be one of the most difficult fashion academies and apparently the first few years are horrendous - they put you through a lot. I believe that is what creates very strong characters who all know what they want; they all came out of there with a strong vision because they had to fight hard to realise what they wanted. I remember reading somewhere that one of the Academy's founders (Mary Priot, I think?) was so obsessed with Chanel that she kept on telling students that was the only thing worth looking at - and I believe it was Demeulemeester who once said that was what created a strong sense of rebellion in her.

The other thing that sets them apart from other fashion designers is that they all (apart from maybe Van Saene ^_^) couple their individual aesthetic with a strong business sense - you should not underestimate the difficulties of starting up a business without backing of any 'big' companies - and to keep going, like they've all done throughout the years. Myself being Flemish :blush: I would contribute it to a certain Flemish work aesthetic - hard work, very down to earth, and miles away from the bigheadedness you get in Paris, Milan or NY. Apart from their strong vision and academic background that's the other thing that made them visible - and popular.

So far my essay!
 
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Faust,that's a bit extreme. His work isn't really "ugly" to me,just way out there. But that was also W&LT too. Since then,that line has now been demised and the other's are actually quite down to earth kind of kooky. But for whatever he does,the man is greatly admired...he has such a tremendous heart for talent,creativity and integrity. Quite possibly,bigger than I've seen from anybody. Just the feel of his shop and who and what he carries....his continued involvement with being an instructor at FFI...the way he has sort nurtured some our faves.

Speaking of that,have you all noticed everybody that's assisted him have a style slightly in the same exuberant manner as he? You can see it clearly with Jurgi,Bernhard...and some of the newcomers.
 
Good points skeeter!

I remember that Ann D. article written about that very thing Mary Pirot and the fact that she had to wear a chigon every day.
 
Dries menswear (and his design overall) has a...secure, sweetness to its masculinity.

There was the comment that it lacks character--of course it does. It never strives to overshadow the man who wears it. You have to supply the character, the strength, the conversation. With him, god is in the details--the way the pockets are lined, a wool coat that buttons up like a waistcoat, a cotton pant blended just right to make it look like canvas, his 'in between' colours (black and brown, blue and purple), his unlined wool jackets that, somehow, still have structure...

He knows how to manipulate emotion and I relate to his artistic mastery of relying on memory (as other artists have and do--Toni Morrison, Van Gogh, Tori Amos, Faulkner, Sylvia Plath, Yada Yada). The clothes feel familiar, the cuts, the colours, the fabrics, even if you've never worn a coat cut like that in your life. Getting into the 'Belgian Fashion Design' book as well as Dries own book made me sell everything else in my closet. Now I only have Dries. And yes, it feels like it was made for me. And yes, it feels as if I've had it forever.

From Dries Van Noten 01...50:

On Design

"My designs have always had a very strong emphasis on texture. When your clothes emphasise texture, it makes sense to bring people close to the work, which is why our front rows are often so close together. In many fashion shows the catwalk is ten metres wide. Our front rows are sometimes only three metres apart, which makes it easy to 'feel' the clothes, to pick up lots of information."

"It's not that I'm afraid of modernity. It's just that if I have something old and beautiful, I treasure it. I always look to the future with respect for the past."

"Last winter, I made a print that started from an antique ribbon that I had found in an archive. I quite liked the movement of the design, so we enlarged it from a tiny thing, blew it up to one and a half metres, until all the small spots on the print became big dots. Once we have what we call these 'originals', these starting points, we start to work on those, until at the end you can no longer recognise the originals. Because if you do too much 'shopping' for your design ideas, it starts to look like you've been shopping, rather than designing."

"I've always been fascinated by things that I don't like. it's one of the principles that I've used quite often in my work: when you don't like a certain colour you try to work with it in such a way that, in the end, you end up liking it. You say to yourself, 'This colour I really don't like; it's not my colour.' But then you start to put it together with other colours, and in different materials, and at a certain moment you find that it looks quite interesting. I'm fascinated by that process. When you work only with things that are beautiful, it becomes too easy and soon gets very boring."

On Press

"The attitude of the press is very important; it can have a tremendous influence on how a show unfolds. If the press is uptight then it is almost impossible to have a good show. And when the press arrives, the journalists are often worried about their appearance, how their colleagues perceive them. There's always this period before the show starts, where they're all sitting there thinking, 'Is my scarf right? Is my bag right? Does my hair look OK?' So we go out of our way to disrupt this pattern. For example, as people enter the venue we will hand them a glass of Belgian beer and a carton of fries, and that changes the atmosphere immediately. You end up smiling, you drop your fries, you get ketchup on your coat, you spill your beer, you don't worry about your hair anymore."

Fashion Show No. 49 Men's Collection S/S 2005: 'Generation Clash - Scotland'
Food and drink: Martini, whisky and 1970s-style snacks

Instead of a conventional catwalk, several 'rooms' are set up in the cour vitree, and the audience sits on leather Chesterfields and armchairs sipping whisky and leafing through Playboy magazines - reminiscent of British gentlemen's clubs of the 70s or the smoking room in some randy prince's castle.

"The starting point," explains Dries, "was a clash of generations. Imagine Prince Harry, the naughty boy royal who likes a drink and a party, discovering the wardrobe of his ancestor the Duke of Windsor, and taking all those elgant clothes and styling them in a younger, more contemporary way.

Fashion Show No. 50 Women's Collection S/S 2005: 'Romanian Folklore'
Music: Bolero - Ravel

The 50th show takes place in a venue roughly the length of a football pitch. This enormous space houses a 120 metre table illuminated by Bohemian lead crystal chandeliers, with 250 guests on each side. A light supper is served, but before the meal is over the table becomes a catwalk, with everyone seated in the 'front row'...

"It's a nice way to bring everybody together," says the designer, "and reminiscent of the way people dance on the table when they're really having fun. It seemed very appropriate for his show, which is really a celebration."
 
i wanna go to a dries show...!!...^_^...
sounds like fun...:heart:
 
Not a fan of Bikkembergs, not really. I hadn't know that he produces a sportswear line, though I have noticed that his regular line resembles streetwear itself, on occasion. :ninja:
 
Marina Yee
 

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Thanks for the Marina Yee pics, Spacemiu. :flower: It's not what I expected...do you know from what year(s) these pictures are from?
 
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i so see bird's points on Dries menswear, kudos to skeeter for speaking up for the 'belgian five'

scott, this latest Van Saane looks seem suspiciously like 'old' Erotokritos to me, birds, appliques and all (OT i saw Erotokritos show in Athens last night, amazing new menswear line, great colours.. very good collection really)
 
droogist said:
Thanks for the Marina Yee pics, Spacemiu. :flower: It's not what I expected...do you know from what year(s) these pictures are from?

I think mostly 2003
 
Marina Yee has said before that she's inspired by the Flemish Primitives. She's known for her fabric combinations and patterns. Space,did you get those off Modo Bruxelle?

Lena,I can see that. Looks nice though.
 
birdofparadise said:
Dries menswear (and his design overall) has a...secure, sweetness to its masculinity.

There was the comment that it lacks character--of course it does. It never strives to overshadow the man who wears it. You have to supply the character, the strength, the conversation. With him, god is in the details--the way the pockets are lined, a wool coat that buttons up like a waistcoat, a cotton pant blended just right to make it look like canvas, his 'in between' colours (black and brown, blue and purple), his unlined wool jackets that, somehow, still have structure...

He knows how to manipulate emotion and I relate to his artistic mastery of relying on memory (as other artists have and do--Toni Morrison, Van Gogh, Tori Amos, Faulkner, Sylvia Plath, Yada Yada). The clothes feel familiar, the cuts, the colours, the fabrics, even if you've never worn a coat cut like that in your life. Getting into the 'Belgian Fashion Design' book as well as Dries own book made me sell everything else in my closet. Now I only have Dries. And yes, it feels like it was made for me. And yes, it feels as if I've had it forever.

That comment was mine, and I am glad to see such a beautiful and powerful response, because that is exactly how I feel about my favorite designers, and that is how I think one should feel about fashion in order to appreciate it for something more than just clothes you put on your body. :flower:
 

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