Can Fashion Customers be Educated?

[tamtamj]

The only way this would work is if you had a good quality wardrobe to start off with. I'm fairly young, I've been brought up on cheap clothing which doesn't last so long, so I need to buy clothes fairly regularly, at least every six months. Obviously this costs money, so I don't have money to save to buy more expensive clothing. I could save up money to buy something expensive buy cutting out on buying these clothes, but that'd leave me without say, a pair of shoes to wear, or a pair of jeans, whilst I saved up. It's kind of a vicious circle.

What I meant was, say I'm getting on the bus and I catch it on a nail sticking out and tear a hole? An expensive garment will tear just as well as a cheap garment. Or you're eating and drop the plate on you, and it stains. That would mean I'd just ruined something way more expensive.

I totally understand what you're getting at, but there are two things -
firstly, I'm someone who, whilst interested in fashion, has never possessed a designer item or such like, and I do not know what is value for money and what isn't - along with most of the public. I know that sometimes if you spend £100 on a coat, it'd be worth it, but sometimes, it'd be a rip off. I think that's one of the things that puts me off buying expensive things, you're out shopping and you want to buy a coat, if you pay £100 for something you would hope it'd last you a long time, but it might not, everyone's heard horror stories about designer clothes falling apart after one wear. At least when you buy a £20 coat you know what you're getting, and know you can afford to buy another one if it does break.
Secondly, it's about the way you're brought up, it takes a long time to change. I was brought up to be shocked at paying over £20 for any item of clothing,to me even wearing a £30 pair of jeans would be extravagant and I'd be worried I'd break/damage them whilst wearing them. High prices make me uncomfortable as I'm not used to it, most people I know are like this too. The world of highly priced items is a whole different world to us, if you've never spent more than ten pounds on a t-shirt, it'll take a lot to make you spend three times that amount.


You mention about how we don't NEED everything we have, and sure that's true. But, sometimes it's nicer to have several different outfits you can wear (and be able to afford new ones each season) than just have two or three ones which are always the same. It's good for morale B)

I guess you don't fall under the group of people that I am trying to address this issue to. I think more of the 26 (and above) year old person who has stable job. All until few years ago, I was kind of careless about clothes' quality but I think this comes with age (as someone else mentioned).
I wasn't brought up in a glamorous way either - but we all knew that you needed a wool coat to keep you warm. Today, you can find 50% wool and $50 synthetic for half price of what it was before - which is great to have this kind of choice. But, it's also nice IF YOU CAN, to own 1 pair of nice leather shoes or boots. Spending $20 or $200 on something is not my concern - it's what you get for that money. Some people prefer 6 cheap items and I prefer 1. The only thing I try to understand here is why people prefer the first and not latter.

 

[lucy92]

^ lucy, could you please expand more on this?



Like, "buying American" and always dry cleaning if the garment requires a dry cleaning? I know that my mother has occasionally washed her dry clean outfits with regular loads of laundry. I never saw a difference when they were done drying..

i have read that a lot of clothing manufactures list "dry clean only" on their hang tags, even if you dont necessarily have to dry clean it. its so rampant that the government stepped in ten years ago to create new rules about it. not all companies are following the rules sadly.

i think the manufacturers want to have "dry clean only" to stop people from potentially returning items if they are washed and dont look the same as when they bought it.

i dont like to spend money on dry cleaning (i literally only go to the dry cleaner maybe twice a year) if a sweater needs dry cleaning i try to use the dryell product that is an alternative. (it also costs about 1/6th of the price of drycleaning)

 

[agee]

But do the fashion designers and the retailers really want people buying investment pieces as part of their "typical" buying behavior, because that means that they intend to not make another purchase of that type for a few years and in offering these goods, they may be cutting off their noses to spite their faces. Of course they have to meet a certain standard of quality and luxury, but I don't know if a stylish customer is more desirable than a trendy customer.

ETA:
We are also in a different place culturally these days, at least in the U.S. Today, if you read a profile on a billionaire, part of the hook will be something along the lines Dockers are his standard attire and that is what the people in the company wear, he buys suits from The Mens Wearhouse or that he did not have a real suit to wear when he met with the big investors for the first time. Women have their own variation of this, people don't even get dressed for church any more.

 

[prisje123]

The only way this would work is if you had a good quality wardrobe to start off with. I'm fairly young, I've been brought up on cheap clothing which doesn't last so long, so I need to buy clothes fairly regularly, at least every six months. Obviously this costs money, so I don't have money to save to buy more expensive clothing. I could save up money to buy something expensive buy cutting out on buying these clothes, but that'd leave me without say, a pair of shoes to wear, or a pair of jeans, whilst I saved up. It's kind of a vicious circle.

You mention about how we don't NEED everything we have, and sure that's true. But, sometimes it's nicer to have several different outfits you can wear (and be able to afford new ones each season) than just have two or three ones which are always the same. It's good for morale B)

I know where you're coming from. I'm also young and brought up buying cheap clothes. So I know how hard it is to find good quality clothes which I can afford. But it really is about making choices and what's important to you.

Do you want to have a big wardrobe but you don't have a lot off money to spend...then you will probably be ending up buying cheap clothes. But if you don't care about having a huge wardrobe, but more about having pieces that you will cherish and look after, then you'll end up putting money aside to buy a good quality item instead of going to clubs or buying a video game or whatever. I've made those choices and it's still hard. You really have to constantly remind yourself what your goal is and stick with it.

Few months ago, I bought one shirt from H&M that was super cheap. My boyfriend convinced me (he said "it's so cheap. If you don't wear it you didn't loose that much"), but I regretted so much. It was $12 I can easily spend on a nice breakfast or a drink because I never never wore that shirt. You add those $12 with other $15 and with other $30 and you end up with some $50 that you can invest in something better. And on top, I just have space taken for these invaluable things.

Most of the time it is a waste of money when you buy something cheap. Just like your example above, you end up not wearing the item because you don't really care about it. It's cheap so it doesn't really matter. But also, if you end up wearing it, the question will be how long can you enjoy it. The price you pay is the quality you get. Now I"m not saying that a Ralph Lauren coat is better then an H&M coat, because there are so many factors that you have to consider in what makes a good coat, but you can't expect to get something great for $20 at H&M.

But what most of the people keep forgetting is that you don't have to pay $100 to get a good quality piece of clothing. You have to know which brand or non-brand has better quality. There are a lot of independent clothing brands where the quality is far better than Dolce & Gabbana or Ralph Lauren and all those kinds of Luxury brands. You just have to research on which materials are used, stitching etc..Those are better ways to determine if your money is well spent.

You said "People these days aren't easily satisfied." Well said. Maybe this is more of a social problem than fashion-related issue?

Or maybe because that clothes don't satisfy people's needs in a long run? It works in a short run only.

It is in fact a social problem. Look at how the world is today. Everything has to go fast, no one wants to wait for something. And in the fashion world, trends come and go. There is a certain pressure to always look good and to always were the latest trends. Brands feed on that. They know that people will buy their "cheaper" items because its trendy.

 

[m.j.]

theres a saying 'im not rich enough to buy cheap things'

but it just depends of so many factors.... from style, education, work place, demography, age....

but what i have to say is that most of designers are overpriced, and i heard from many people that they don't want to buy sth just cos it has someone's signature. its interesting that this thread started now, cos in past few yrs we were able to get better clothes on lower prices. many street brands can no longer be called street brands cos stars wear them even on red carpets.

and yes, you can educate people. but thats a process....

 

[fashionista-ta]

Honestly, I think most people KNOW all this - they're just too busy/can't afford to take notice of it.
If I need a coat for the winter, I can't afford to buy an expensive one, and I can't go a year without a coat in order to afford an expensive one, so I buy one I can afford.
And myself, and most people I know, don't have lifestyles which we can guarantee not to spoil designer clothes. You might step in a puddle and get dirt all over something that's dry clean only, well that's a) very expensive to clean and b ) too time consuming to go to the cleaners!

Most people know that you pay for quality - per say - but although a more expensive coat may perform better/last longer, it's also a huge waste of money if your every day lifestyle breaks it!

I don't know ... I'm not sure people do know. I think a great many people are ignorant and/or stupid

Some people have the mentality that they 'get tired' of things ... if you're going to look at life that way, then maybe you don't want things that will last.

My view is, if I go to the trouble to pick out the best, I want it to last as long as it possibly can.

There are certain things, like suede shoes, that one does have to be careful with. If you live in a climate where it can rain a lot unexpectedly, expensive suede shoes may not be for you.

But in general, unless one is outside the norm, I think it's a myth that good quality, expensive items don't stand up to real life. I find they're often the only things that do ...

Dry cleaning may be expensive, but it doesn't need to be done every time you wear something, and it also does a lot to extend the life of a garment. I don't mind paying for it, because I had a deal with myself that as soon as I could afford it, I was going to stop ironing for the rest of my life. One of the best resolutions I've ever made

PS tamtamj, btw, we have a thread called the 4-5 piece French wardrobe thread that explores the practical side of building a wardrobe with good quality pieces ... I mention this because I see you have 11 posts and may not have seen it yet ...

 

[tamtamj]

I don't know ... I'm not sure people do know. I think a great many people are ignorant and/or stupid

Some people have the mentality that they 'get tired' of things ... if you're going to look at life that way, then maybe you don't want things that will last.

My view is, if I go to the trouble to pick out the best, I want it to last as long as it possibly can.

There are certain things, like suede shoes, that one does have to be careful with. If you live in a climate where it can rain a lot unexpectedly, expensive suede shoes may not be for you.

But in general, unless one is outside the norm, I think it's a myth that good quality, expensive items don't stand up to real life. I find they're often the only things that do ...

Dry cleaning may be expensive, but it doesn't need to be done every time you wear something, and it also does a lot to extend the life of a garment. I don't mind paying for it, because I had a deal with myself that as soon as I could afford it, I was going to stop ironing for the rest of my life. One of the best resolutions I've ever made

PS tamtamj, btw, we have a thread called the 4-5 piece French wardrobe thread that explores the practical side of building a wardrobe with good quality pieces ... I mention this because I see you have 11 posts and may not have seen it yet ...

I am new to the TFS, and I have read lots of threads but haven't read about 4-5 piece French wardrobe which I will do next Thanks for the info!

 

[fashionista-ta]

The only way this would work is if you had a good quality wardrobe to start off with. I'm fairly young, I've been brought up on cheap clothing which doesn't last so long, so I need to buy clothes fairly regularly, at least every six months. Obviously this costs money, so I don't have money to save to buy more expensive clothing. I could save up money to buy something expensive buy cutting out on buying these clothes, but that'd leave me without say, a pair of shoes to wear, or a pair of jeans, whilst I saved up. It's kind of a vicious circle.

What I meant was, say I'm getting on the bus and I catch it on a nail sticking out and tear a hole? An expensive garment will tear just as well as a cheap garment. Or you're eating and drop the plate on you, and it stains. That would mean I'd just ruined something way more expensive.

I totally understand what you're getting at, but there are two things -
firstly, I'm someone who, whilst interested in fashion, has never possessed a designer item or such like, and I do not know what is value for money and what isn't - along with most of the public. I know that sometimes if you spend £100 on a coat, it'd be worth it, but sometimes, it'd be a rip off. I think that's one of the things that puts me off buying expensive things, you're out shopping and you want to buy a coat, if you pay £100 for something you would hope it'd last you a long time, but it might not, everyone's heard horror stories about designer clothes falling apart after one wear. At least when you buy a £20 coat you know what you're getting, and know you can afford to buy another one if it does break.
Secondly, it's about the way you're brought up, it takes a long time to change. I was brought up to be shocked at paying over £20 for any item of clothing,to me even wearing a £30 pair of jeans would be extravagant and I'd be worried I'd break/damage them whilst wearing them. High prices make me uncomfortable as I'm not used to it, most people I know are like this too. The world of highly priced items is a whole different world to us, if you've never spent more than ten pounds on a t-shirt, it'll take a lot to make you spend three times that amount.


You mention about how we don't NEED everything we have, and sure that's true. But, sometimes it's nicer to have several different outfits you can wear (and be able to afford new ones each season) than just have two or three ones which are always the same. It's good for morale B)

One good way to escape the vicious cycle has already been suggested--buying excellent quality items secondhand. You can find great things at thrift shops if you're willing to work for it.

If you tear a hole ... it can usually be repaired. If you spill something, a good dry cleaner can almost always fix it.

Each person has to educate him/herself about quality. It's not a guessing game--you can learn to tell what is a good quality garment and what isn't. I still occasionally get an unpleasant surprise--but rarely. If you're an educated consumer you can really improve your chances of getting something good. Also, if you choose your retailer well, they will eat your mistakes.

I grew up wearing hand-me-downs (plus a few nice things from relatives--but bought without me there, so they didn't necessarily fit), and I don't do it anymore Part of becoming an adult is examining the values your parents passed on to you, and deciding whether you want to keep them or not ... it's a choice. And I choose not to find my wardrobe at garage sales

 

[mikeijames]

the fashion/luxury experience remains one that can get educated, but it takes years and it takes lots of social pressure. it generally takes a marriage or professional ostracism before one snaps into place. of course, there exist those to the manor born who have played with tiffany silver from birth who just feel more comfortable with the high-end. there also exist those who have always obsessed over the finer things in life even though they did not come from that background. however, for the rest, it's not an easy transition.

for women, handbags tend to stand as the first entry point, and for men, it's suits/ties for work (with shoes coming next for women and timepieces coming next for men). but again, i know single professional women who make tens of thousands of dollars a month who sock the money away in engorged investment accounts (or second homes, or into their business, or into tony schools/activities for their children) who believe, honestly, that the height of sophistication sits in the store window at their local chico's, and to spend anymore represents the type of capriciousness that they have shunned their entire lives to get to their place professionally.

 

[Not Plain Jane]

Tamtamj - interesting topic. I think it is partially cultural; we live in a culture of obsolescence more than ever before. Things go out of style or need to be upgraded constantly. Endless consumption, instant gratification, profit before people, quantity over quality, shopping as therapy, fast food/fast cars/fast fashion. All these comments are cliches, yes, but true on some level too.

You seem to be coming at things from two angles: pragmatism (buy less of better quality, go for fit and fabrication) but also aestheticism (buy one beautiful well-crafted coat, spend more to get the beauty and quality).

I tend to agree with you on both counts. I often wait until I can afford that special piece, saving up, or nabbing it on sale, if I am lucky enough to see my size left. But I will buy middle pieces for trends or frivolous things, like a summer dress to toss over a bathing suit.

Conscious consumerism would be wonderful, but whether or not it is achievable is doubtful. The whole paradoxical notion of "save money, but spend constantly" is very implicated in the social fabric right now. There are always sales, and people are always buying. The people who run the businesses, the ads, all of it, feed into this frenzy.

I have often noted that if so-and-so just saved for 2-3 months what she spent at the Gap, she could have bought that one more exclusive, lovely item that she said was "too expensive." And chances are those Gap items will get shipped off to thrift or donated. There is a reason why most of what we see in thrift stores - the big ones - is the lower to middle end chain store stuff...

 

[fashionista-ta]

Tamtamj - interesting topic. I think it is partially cultural; we live in a culture of obsolescence more than ever before. Things go out of style or need to be upgraded constantly. Endless consumption, instant gratification, profit before people, quantity over quality, shopping as therapy, fast food/fast cars/fast fashion. All these comments are cliches, yes, but true on some level too.

You seem to be coming at things from two angles: pragmatism (buy less of better quality, go for fit and fabrication) but also aestheticism (buy one beautiful well-crafted coat, spend more to get the beauty and quality).

I tend to agree with you on both counts. I often wait until I can afford that special piece, saving up, or nabbing it on sale, if I am lucky enough to see my size left. But I will buy middle pieces for trends or frivolous things, like a summer dress to toss over a bathing suit.

Conscious consumerism would be wonderful, but whether or not it is achievable is doubtful. The whole paradoxical notion of "save money, but spend constantly" is very implicated in the social fabric right now. There are always sales, and people are always buying. The people who run the businesses, the ads, all of it, feed into this frenzy.

I have often noted that if so-and-so just saved for 2-3 months what she spent at the Gap, she could have bought that one more exclusive, lovely item that she said was "too expensive." And chances are those Gap items will get shipped off to thrift or donated. There is a reason why most of what we see in thrift stores - the big ones - is the lower to middle end chain store stuff...

Things going out of style and needing upgrading constantly is largely a perception--and I don't think I need to tell you who's creating it

I'm on my second cell phone ever. I knew it was time to replace the first one when the battery would no longer hold a charge. Although the phone company wants me to consider the letters and coupons they send a huge wakeup call that it's time!, I toss them all in the recycling and keep on using the perfectly fine one I've already got.

I find that if you buy a little carefully to start with (no Hammer pants), very little truly goes out of style. It's usually shoes you haven't worn much. And then the trends change back your way.

I consider myself a conscious consumer, and I know of lots of people who are more conscious than I am. It's totally achievable.

 

[Not Plain Jane]

It may be achievable for some, but for the masses, the majority, or whatever you want to call it, I am not so sure. It's still more is good, new is good, less expensive is good, for many people. Or just more and new, forget about the price for others.

I agree that if you are savvy you can buy things that are classic and they can last longer. But again, who is really as savvy as tamtamj suggests re: fabrics, craftmanship, longevity? I'd say less people than more, esp in certain areas of the world.

So how do we educated consumers? Who educates consumers? Certainly not companies who depend on profit and more and more sales. What/who/how then? The majority of people seem not to even worry about the environment and the costs to it re: over-production and over-consumption. So why would they care about longevity of a coat if they don't care about the very atmosphere they breathe? Ah, sorry to be so cynical, it's late.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ Remember, though, it only takes a minority to drive real change. There's a significant and growing minority that's driving organic/green/fair trade/sweatshop and child labor-free (Rugmark)/etc. It is the people who care about the environment who care about being conscious consumers ... basically the thinking people vs the non-thinking, which is all right by me They are the ones I want on my side.

The recession also drove a lot of hard thinking about value for money. Some people bought cheap, disposable stuff, but a lot of people started thinking about how to shop intelligently too. I think people are going to remember what they learned ...

 

[Not Plain Jane]

I hope you are right. I the thinkers too. Though it'd be nice to get the non-thinkers thinking, I think.

Good points about recent downturn and its impact.

Happy EARTH Day!

 

[fashionista-ta]

I hope you are right. I the thinkers too. Though it'd be nice to get the non-thinkers thinking, I think.

Good points about recent downturn and its impact.

Happy EARTH Day!

It'd be more than nice, it'd be an effing miracle But hey, miracles happen.

Let someone develop a serious health problem, for instance, and that can catapult you into the world of green.

 

[HiHeels]

Great thread!
There is no quality legacy at the moment. Parents themselves don't know about quality, so they cannot teach their children, and the fashion media has no motivation to educate anyone because the big advertisers (h&m, etc.) wouldn't benefit.
I am passionate about french seams, leather-lined shoes, etc. My mom was European and she lectured me about quality. I'm grateful.

 

[silk skin paws]

I can't speak for everyone else, America is a consumerist society and it's all about consumption and accumulating mass of goods. Cheap clothes are easy to come by, disposable and on trend and trends tend to come and go. Shoppers don't think much about it. By definition my clothes are cheap and I don't believe 'cheap' denotes to being uneducated about fashion or vice versa. Since I purchase things with a price point in mind over the years I learned to look at the quality of a fabric before purchasing. If the fabric is frayed then I won't purchase even if it's reasonable priced. When I buy something I want it to have some lifespan, it might not last a lifetime, but I don't want something that will disintegrate into nothing within a couple years and/or washes. It defeats the purpose and a waste of money.

I try to take care of my clothes such as following washing instruction, hand washing dedicates and mending a hem or button.

 

[tamtamj]

I can't speak for everyone else, America is a consumerist society and it's all about consumption and accumulating mass of goods. Cheap clothes are easy to come by, disposable and on trend and trends tend to come and go. Shoppers don't think much about it.

That is so true. I see this mentality and I don't think it's good for us. "Good" meaning it's not bringing us happiness that we think, the savings are not as good because you need to consume and buy more of that product so it adds up to a significant number & it makes me think how people value themselves (yes, you can see this from people's clothes!).

However, I agree with fashionista-ta, individuals and small communities can do wonders. I haven't come up with a solution (maybe that's to come next ;-) but wanted to really hear what you guys think. I have friends from many countries and they all think like me - but I wanted to have better and bigger perspective.

 

[blueorchid]

"Good" meaning it's not bringing us happiness that we think, the savings are not as good because you need to consume and buy more of that product so it adds up to a significant number & it makes me think how people value themselves (yes, you can see this from people's clothes!).

You can only extrapolate so much from how people dress though. You can't always connect the way people dress to the way people value themselves. Just because someone dresses nicely doesn't mean that they have lots of confidence or self-esteem, dressing up can be used to hide these qualities. And on the other hand there are people who really don't care how they dress (within reason, of course) yet have perfectly fine self-esteem. Some people really don't care about clothes and truthfully I don't think that concept is as awful as people think.

 

[tamtamj]

You can only extrapolate so much from how people dress though. You can't always connect the way people dress to the way people value themselves. Just because someone dresses nicely doesn't mean that they have lots of confidence or self-esteem, dressing up can be used to hide these qualities. And on the other hand there are people who really don't care how they dress (within reason, of course) yet have perfectly fine self-esteem.

I haven't mentioned anything with 'dressing up' or dressing 'nicely'. I thought "quality" clothes which means wearing natural fiber clothes made with certain care and certain quality. Nowdays everything seem to be made out of plastic. I repeat (many people don't seem to understand) I don't mean wearing Prada or Gucci, it just means quality clothes that can be made by local boutique or non-famous label.
You can be in the house alone and nobody needs to see you - those are also moments I am talking about. Not how you necessary look, but also how do you feel and think.

You can't always connect the way people dress to the way people value themselves.

Yes, I can't go too deep with it, but there are other aspects of life that make me wonder. For example, eating from plastic utensils and plastic cups makes me think that person might not cherish/value what he/she eats. In combination with cheap clothes, just makes me wonder... But, that's another story.

Some people really don't care about clothes and truthfully I don't think that concept is as awful as people think.

It is not awful. It is just a thought. I like to observe cultures and people in general and love to understand why things are the way they are. I love the posts people were putting - it gives me better insight.