Can Fashion Customers be Educated?

[tamtamj]

You can only extrapolate so much from how people dress though. You can't always connect the way people dress to the way people value themselves. Just because someone dresses nicely doesn't mean that they have lots of confidence or self-esteem, dressing up can be used to hide these qualities. And on the other hand there are people who really don't care how they dress (within reason, of course) yet have perfectly fine self-esteem. Some people really don't care about clothes and truthfully I don't think that concept is as awful as people think.

I thought this might be interesting to read:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Psychology-of-Clothing&id=166295

 

[greengrassia]

ha, probably just an insignificant anecdote: i have some female teachers back in university. a few of them seem really don't care what they are wearing, but they are just radiating from within. they are the most confident and self-assured women i've ever seen! yes, they do wear not-so-good-quality high street clothes. not naturally fibered, not even well-made. but seriously, i completely forgot what they put on the moment they started to talk. it's all about wisdom from within.
don't get me wrong, i'm all for quality clothes myself, and truthfully, the way i feel has been built a lot on what i wear, maybe a bit too much, even. i just try to understand other people's mentality, like my teachers.to learn about and buy quality clothes def is time-consuming. i mean, the purchase itself alone. to find the good fit, color, fabric, etc. it takes lots of time, and some luck. maybe it's really not important for them? maybe they really just like to grab something easy from the shopping street they pass by, and go? but the fact is, they feel good, and even look good! which amazed me. i wish i could have that kind of confidence, no matter what i wear.
so dare i say, maybe the problem today, everything being fast consumed & disposable, people having no patience to sit down, having a deep conversation (instead they twit or facebook), people having no patience to read a book, or watch a movie with rich symbolism, or simply people having no patience to really think, to think deep...maybe this has more to do with "we care too much about what we look outside"? but really not much to do with "we are not educated enough to look good"? everything becomes so terribly superficial and shallow in the culture we are living in. it's more and more about outer layers than inner qualities.

just my humble two cents.

 

[F0F0]

...We are also in a different place culturally these days, at least in the U.S. Today, if you read a profile on a billionaire, part of the hook will be something along the lines Dockers are his standard attire and that is what the people in the company wear, he buys suits from The Mens Wearhouse or that he did not have a real suit to wear when he met with the big investors for the first time...

I read an article where the journalist did some research on how many pair of shoes millionaires around the world own. The result? Like no more than 3 pairs and they tend to keep them for years. How come? Well, they resole their shoes of course.

While that could sound pretty ridiculous in a Fashion Spot forum context it makes a lot of sense for me.

If I were trillionaire I'd own no more than 6 pairs! And I think that's too muuch! And I'm not alone on this, right Michael Bloomberg? ( the mayor of New York has been wearing 2 pair of shoes for the past 10 years ).


Disclaimer: I'm a man. We tend to be more into NEEDS than WANTS when it comes to building our wardrobe.

 

[F0F0]

ha, probably just an insignificant anecdote: i have some female teachers back in university. a few of them seem really don't care what they are wearing, but they are just radiating from within. they are the most confident and self-assured women i've ever seen! yes, they do wear not-so-good-quality high street clothes. not naturally fibered, not even well-made. but seriously, i completely forgot what they put on the moment they started to talk. it's all about wisdom from within.
don't get me wrong, i'm all for quality clothes myself, and truthfully, the way i feel has been built a lot on what i wear, maybe a bit too much, even. i just try to understand other people's mentality, like my teachers.to learn about and buy quality clothes def is time-consuming. i mean, the purchase itself alone. to find the good fit, color, fabric, etc. it takes lots of time, and some luck. maybe it's really not important for them? maybe they really just like to grab something easy from the shopping street they pass by, and go? but the fact is, they feel good, and even look good! which amazed me. i wish i could have that kind of confidence, no matter what i wear.
so dare i say, maybe the problem today, everything being fast consumed & disposable, people having no patience to sit down, having a deep conversation (instead they twit or facebook), people having no patience to read a book, or watch a movie with rich symbolism, or simply people having no patience to really think, to think deep...maybe this has more to do with "we care too much about what we look outside"? but really not much to do with "we are not educated enough to look good"? everything becomes so terribly superficial and shallow in the culture we are living in. it's more and more about outer layers than inner qualities.

just my humble two cents.

Your teachers are such cynics...but in the good, Diogenes of Sinope way! I wish more people were like them, the aforementioned greek or like that old Moondog viking-fashionista (coincidentally another Dog) Once in a while consumerism tends to cynicism for it's own sake.

 

[Belle Princesse]

I think most people focus on the price of item versus cost per wear, I know several people who would never dream of paying x-amount for an item but never stop to think just how expensive the 'cheaper' option actually works out to be. My mother always taught me 'buy cheap, buy twice' and in reality it's often much more than just twice.

It was a learning curve for me and part of growing up, I haven't hit my mid-twenties yet but looking back at my teen years I have definitely learnt to appreciate quality over quantity.

 

[Not Plain Jane]

This book is an interesting read, w.r.t. how we communicate things about ourselves through our clothing choices. But no doubt, clothing is slippery; it can conceal and reveal simultaneously.

http://www.styleclicker.net/2011/03/02/fashion-as-communication-by-malcolm-bernard/

 

[MimiV]

Personally, when I think of educating the consumer - I think more of educating the average "fashionista" on two points.

Number one being basic knowledge about fabrics and materials to know what they are paying for. If a designer piece is made of 100% polyester/acrylic/etcetera - you are paying for the label on the clothing; not quality or savoir-faire.

Number two, the most important, being licensing deals; which is the way many luxury companies actually make money (roughly 70% in the case of Chanel). If you buy a pair of sunglasses with a big designer logo on it, you should know that the designer who's name is on the product has notdesigned these sunglasses - they are designed by another company who, through licensing deals, are paying the luxury brand to use their logo. The same goes for make-up and perfumes...

 

[agee]

^ Good points, designers may not want educated and discerning customers because that may not actually play out in their favor.

 

[fashionista-ta]

Personally, when I think of educating the consumer - I think more of educating the average "fashionista" on two points.

Number one being basic knowledge about fabrics and materials to know what they are paying for. If a designer piece is made of 100% polyester/acrylic/etcetera - you are paying for the label on the clothing; not quality or savoir-faire.

Number two, the most important, being licensing deals; which is the way many luxury companies actually make money (roughly 70% in the case of Chanel). If you buy a pair of sunglasses with a big designer logo on it, you should know that the designer who's name is on the product has notdesigned these sunglasses - they are designed by another company who, through licensing deals, are paying the luxury brand to use their logo. The same goes for make-up and perfumes...

Well, I think some designers are at least somewhat involved with their scents. Balenciaga, Nina Ricci, Chanel (in Coco's day) come to mind ... With makeup, companies do a lot of publicity for their 'celebrity makeup artists,' or whatever ... those people seem to be pretty involved. Tom Ford with the things he's done for Estee Lauder, also Tom Pecheux for Estee Lauder ... the Chanel guy, same thing ...

For pretty much anything besides the clothes, you can be pretty sure there are experts other than the designer driving the process ... but that doesn't mean the designer's creative vision isn't very much at work. Licensing is different, but accessories are designed by accessory designers ... to me it makes a difference whether something is designed under the aegis of the company or not. You have to know the backstory to know what's really going on.

I personally am a no-polyester kinda girl, but my understanding is that it's considered just another fabric in Japan, and there are some high-end fabrics that due to finishing, etc. are expensive. Considering it's generally made from petroleum, except for the recycled or eco-friendly versions, I'd love to see it disappear off the face of the earth ...

 

[thisismyname]

I personally am a no-polyester kinda girl, but my understanding is that it's considered just another fabric in Japan, and there are some high-end fabrics that due to finishing, etc. are expensive.

This. Polyester and other synthetic fibers are commonly found on the runways of the likes of Jil Sander and Lanvin, used in innovative ways that natural fibers cannot be used. Looking out for "polyester" on tags would eliminate loads of high quality, well thought out designer pieces. There can be a value to synthetic materials if the clothing is well designed for sure. (and like honestly, obviously most things made of silk jersey and fine cashmere will look luxurious, but it's far more impressive to make something stunning and soft out of a plastic!)

 

[aldn]

another book i would suggest reading is ecology of commerce by paul hawken

Things going out of style and needing upgrading constantly is largely a perception--and I don't think I need to tell you who's creating it

I'm on my second cell phone ever. I knew it was time to replace the first one when the battery would no longer hold a charge. Although the phone company wants me to consider the letters and coupons they send a huge wakeup call that it's time!, I toss them all in the recycling and keep on using the perfectly fine one I've already got.

I find that if you buy a little carefully to start with (no Hammer pants), very little truly goes out of style. It's usually shoes you haven't worn much. And then the trends change back your way.

I consider myself a conscious consumer, and I know of lots of people who are more conscious than I am. It's totally achievable.

I will buy the hammer pants cause I feel I can stand by them when they're out of style. And like you said they will always come back.

I read an article where the journalist did some research on how many pair of shoes millionaires around the world own. The result? Like no more than 3 pairs and they tend to keep them for years. How come? Well, they resole their shoes of course.

While that could sound pretty ridiculous in a Fashion Spot forum context it makes a lot of sense for me.

If I were trillionaire I'd own no more than 6 pairs! And I think that's too muuch! And I'm not alone on this, right Michael Bloomberg? ( the mayor of New York has been wearing 2 pair of shoes for the past 10 years ).


Disclaimer: I'm a man. We tend to be more into NEEDS than WANTS when it comes to building our wardrobe.

If I had to I could condense my shoes to 10 pairs but this is normally where I have the most fun in my wardrobe.

I think most people focus on the price of item versus cost per wear, I know several people who would never dream of paying x-amount for an item but never stop to think just how expensive the 'cheaper' option actually works out to be. My mother always taught me 'buy cheap, buy twice' and in reality it's often much more than just twice.

It was a learning curve for me and part of growing up, I haven't hit my mid-twenties yet but looking back at my teen years I have definitely learnt to appreciate quality over quantity.

But with designers and other retailers ripping us off and HiHeels mention of people today not being taught to discern quality, how do you know when to spend the extra money and when to buy the high street version?

"You pay for what you get." I remember a specific pair of undergarments that went into the wash and as soon as they came out of the dryer, the elastic had come loose and gotten tangled up with a bunch of socks creating a huge mess.

I don't know if I have ever gotten anything for cheap (that was brand new - not secondhand) that was of quality. I can say that Gap clothing can be pricy, but I've found that their quality is less than satisfactory. Almost every time.

But, I've found that buying something for cheap made me feel cheap which could, in turn, make others possibly feel thrifty?

Gap used to have much better quality. I think that's why they changed their return policy because they know they would be dealing with a lot more returns if they kept it as is while decreasing the quality. This is a huge part of the problem as to why they keep losing money. If the legendary quality was still there I wouldn't hesitate to buy at the prices they ask for. Instead I wait for 99% of the clothes I buy for them to hit the sale rack.... actually at almost any retailer I shop at on regular basis. Urban Outfitters and H&M come to mind.

Your right about that. Most people really do not care about the quality and how long it will last, because you can buy another cheap coat next year. People these days aren't easily satisfied. When they buy something...two months later they want another NEW model. So buying things cheap makes it easier for people to say: " Oh well I can just buy a new one because it was only $...."

Also lots of cheaper brands, such as Zara and H&M are copying the catwalk trends. Making it affordable for people that want to be fashionable and always up to date on whats hot but who can't afford a coat for $500. So the questions isn't how can we educate people, but more how can we stop the cheap brands for copying catwalk trends. But that's just impossible to do...

Why do we have to just stop the cheap brands? Why don't we go back to a time where louis vuitton, prada, gucci, etc. were only known for making exceptional leather goods?
The problem is all these companies are building hype machines. If companies went back to focus on what made them great to begin with they would really be able to become more innovative and ask for the prices they ask for. We wouldn't be paying for marketing campaigns or tanked collections.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ You remind me of when Burberry suddenly became 'cool' and all of a sudden the quality took a nosedive ... what would be wrong with both?!

 

[sambatsas]

What about dry cleaning costs? People need to be educated on how valuable an item can be if it does not require dry cleaning to keep its shape and texture.

I have this white shirt by Rhodes and Beckett (Aust. brand for tailored suit-wear - amazing egyption cotton) and I put this on delicate cycle in my washing machine then let it dry on a coat hanger in my lounge. Its like new again.

DRY cleaners suck money out of u and half the time they dont even do a good job. What is the point of paying $450 for a top and you have to get it dry cleaned everytime you wear. Now if i was living like lauren santo domingo, yes I would get dry cleaning everyday because i can afford it... maybe this just turned into a rant about me not wanting to do my washing right now ..

 

[aldn]

i love it sambatas. lol. you don't have to dry clean every time. i don't wash every time i wear something unless it has gathered an odor or stain.

 

[MimiV]

And dry-cleaning is not necessarily the most environmentally friendly cleaning alternative..

 

[Kayote]

I actually migrated from cheap 'express fashion' to more expensive labels after I realised that these expensive labels, while they may have higher profit margins, really do go out of the way to ensure the sizing, fit, fabric etc all adhere to the label standards.

As an aside, this past season for me is very disappointing as it seems all the high street retailers are shifting to polyester fabric and it just plain sucks... surely Im not the only one whose noticed this.

 

[fashionista-ta]

I think dry cleaning is a matter of pros and cons. Granted I don't have the best washing machine (I didn't buy it), but I find that dry cleaning is much easier on my clothes and helps preserve them in their original condition, size, etc. It's a convenience that I don't mind paying for. I also don't think you need to send something to the cleaners every time you wear it ... I do it when it's necessary. I also use a 'green' dry cleaner.

 

[aldn]

I actually migrated from cheap 'express fashion' to more expensive labels after I realised that these expensive labels, while they may have higher profit margins, really do go out of the way to ensure the sizing, fit, fabric etc all adhere to the label standards.

As an aside, this past season for me is very disappointing as it seems all the high street retailers are shifting to polyester fabric and it just plain sucks... surely Im not the only one whose noticed this.

They're moving to poly as the price of cotton increases. I have not really noticed it in my area.

 

[Kayote]

They're moving to poly as the price of cotton increases. I have not really noticed it in my area.

Absolutely and it just feels aweful (polyester). Interestingly enough, Cotton prices are falling just as quickly so hopefully this trend should not last for more than a season.

 

[HiHeels]

What about dry cleaning costs? People need to be educated on how valuable an item can be if it does not require dry cleaning to keep its shape and texture.

I have this white shirt by Rhodes and Beckett (Aust. brand for tailored suit-wear - amazing egyption cotton) and I put this on delicate cycle in my washing machine then let it dry on a coat hanger in my lounge. Its like new again.

DRY cleaners suck money out of u and half the time they dont even do a good job. What is the point of paying $450 for a top and you have to get it dry cleaned everytime you wear. Now if i was living like lauren santo domingo, yes I would get dry cleaning everyday because i can afford it... maybe this just turned into a rant about me not wanting to do my washing right now ..

Ooooo, I will always pay more for things I can wash. And I don't just go by labels - sometimes they say dry-clean but are totally washable. I taking care of my clothes. And I hate dry-cleaning. I am happy to hand wash individual pieces that need extra care, and I love the sturdy pieces that age nicely through machine wash and wear (jeans, a crisp shirt).