Chloe F/W 07.08 Paris

[Deleted member 7575]

I really view Chloe's heritage as an extension of Karl Lagerfeld. He defined it, it was also his first big job, and it was with Chloe that Lagerfeld paved a way for ready-to-wear to take it's current prominence.

Unfortunately I don't really know much about his body work during the two (and most importantly the first) appointments there. You don't see it all that often in old fashion magazines during the 60's and 70's.

It's a lost history in some ways. The lineage most people are familiar with are the stella/phoebe/yvan/paulo situation. I wonder if what phoebe had been doing really captures the Chloe woman, or if there ever was? I think she gets credited for developing Chloe's contemporary woman (and momentum). It's hard without looking at primary sources to see what Lagerfeld was up to back then. I should search for Chloe in old issues of Officiel.

With Paulo it adds another layer, he's more like Lagerfeld, with an aura of enchantmant only certain designers have. You get an idea of him as this 5th generation (or 6th, or 7th or whatever) spinoff of the whole avante-garde/deconstructivist/minimalist/post-modernest/etc chain and he's sort of an underdog and maybe even derivative. He's like a lot of London designers in that sense. You want to root for him. I wasn't thrilled about the collection shown on the runway. I've seen the fall pre-collection in stores and it is quite good. I can't tell how much of it is the team or what Paulo influenced. His F/W collection wasn't well thought out, it had it's gems but all in all there were too many off moments.

But then you have what he was doing at Marni (which I thought was amazing), it has such sophistication and amazing execution, and it really pushes a lot of conceptions on dressing and what looks good. I don't think those qualities have traveled over to Chloe as well as Paulo would have liked. I suppose you have to give him a transitional season.

Let's see what he can show us in October.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

I want to add that one thing I love about Paulo is that he has a very clear voice. That can get you very far in fashion (it can also be your end).

 

[gius]

^i guess one way to look at it is not to show all your talents in one extravagant season.. better to let the audience crave more

by the way, mutterlein, we have a history of Chloe @ tFS
http://www.thefashionspot.com/forums/f116/1952-1990s-chloe-58668.html

 

[kuba01]

I don't understand what Paulo was doing at Marni - wasn't Consuelo the creative director?

 

[gius]

the designing is more like a collaborative process.. group process... Consuela has the final say in deciding for example whether such and such a design/colour goes or not, what she's looking for/the direction for the next season's collection for her label, things like that
it's the same with Prada too.. Miuccia doesn't design herself, but she is the 'director'. Hehe, it might be dangerous to let Miuccia design on her own.. her education, she majored in something else (I forget..starts with a P.. maybe Politics? Political Science?) and she doesn't have the understanding of how a garment can hold together

You get an idea of him as this 5th generation (or 6th, or 7th or whatever) spinoff of the whole avante-garde/deconstructivist/minimalist/post-modernest/etc chain and he's sort of an underdog and maybe even derivative. He's like a lot of London designers in that sense. You want to root for him. I wasn't thrilled about the collection shown on the runway. I've seen the fall pre-collection in stores and it is quite good. I can't tell how much of it is the team or what Paulo influenced. His F/W collection wasn't well thought out, it had it's gems but all in all there were too many off moments.

But then you have what he was doing at Marni (which I thought was amazing), it has such sophistication and amazing execution, and it really pushes a lot of conceptions on dressing and what looks good. I don't think those qualities have traveled over to Chloe as well as Paulo would have liked. I suppose you have to give him a transitional season.

Let's see what he can show us in October.

I see what you mean.. Paulo's designs seem often art or design history based. This collection definitely has vibes from Marimekko.. and his prints at Marni definitely look took from several prints.. the 50's with the pastel colours and wispy brushstrokes and abstract birds, the Russian constructivism (s/s 06 with the workers plowing the fields)...
Is it true London designers think this way too? I wonder which Marni collection you liked by him.. I find Marni only caught my eye s/s 05 and when I researched their history, I was happy up till f/w 04 and all the seasons before that I was feeling a little empty. I'd say if ever there was a reason this Chloe fall collection did not do well because of the 'off' moments you wrote about, maybe it's that this new girl character he is trying to show is not a character we've seen before? It's a bit different from the usual rebel girl. It has hard spots but also very soft.. loose shapes, innocent prints, but then hard patent shoes. I mean like his stuff for Marni, it's definitely this nature-inspired thing.. kind of poetic, woodsy girl and which is already a familiar 'character' to many of us.. I almost want to say stereotype but no...

Hmm would love to see the pre-fall.. I think I remember it being posted already at tFS or somewheres.

I guess all of the designers who ever worked for Chloe all brought their own 'it' girl of the times... It's getting late, I'm rambling

 

[Deleted member 7575]

the designing is more like a collaborative process.. group process... Consuela has the final say in deciding for example whether such and such a design/colour goes or not, what she's looking for/the direction for the next season's collection for her label, things like that
it's the same with Prada too.. Miuccia doesn't design herself, but she is the 'director'. Hehe, it might be dangerous to let Miuccia design on her own.. her education, she majored in something else (I forget..starts with a P.. maybe Politics? Political Science?) and she doesn't have the understanding of how a garment can hold together


I see what you mean.. Paulo's designs seem often art or design history based. This collection definitely has vibes from Marimekko.. and his prints at Marni definitely look took from several prints.. the 50's with the pastel colours and wispy brushstrokes and abstract birds, the Russian constructivism (s/s 06 with the workers plowing the fields)...
Is it true London designers think this way too? I wonder which Marni collection you liked by him.. I find Marni only caught my eye s/s 05 and when I researched their history, I was happy up till f/w 04 and all the seasons before that I was feeling a little empty. I'd say if ever there was a reason this Chloe fall collection did not do well because of the 'off' moments you wrote about, maybe it's that this new girl character he is trying to show is not a character we've seen before? It's a bit different from the usual rebel girl. It has hard spots but also very soft.. loose shapes, innocent prints, but then hard patent shoes. I mean like his stuff for Marni, it's definitely this nature-inspired thing.. kind of poetic, woodsy girl and which is already a familiar 'character' to many of us.. I almost want to say stereotype but no...

Hmm would love to see the pre-fall.. I think I remember it being posted already at tFS or somewheres.

I guess all of the designers who ever worked for Chloe all brought their own 'it' girl of the times... It's getting late, I'm rambling

I meant that whole progression in schools of thought specifically for fashion. You have the Japanese (Issey, Rei, Yohji) and they gave way to designers like Margiela and Anne, and that gave way to designers like Helmut, and now you have a plethora of designers (coming out of Europe) who are really doing their own thing in a post-modern eclectic way like Bernhard Willhem and other Antwerp designers. I think even designers like Theyskens and Alber Elbaz who make fairly instituional clothes (old, rich, women) have taken learned how to use the same conceptual approach even though their clothes don't scream it in store. With all these designers co-existing it shows that it's no longer one perspective that dominates. London, as genesis for young talent, caters towards this kind of perspective more so than Milan and especially NY (which is very 7th ave and very static). Paulo is different than from say... Peter Som or Matthew Williamson who have much more conventional way of work IMO.

 

[disco54]

i realize new designers have to do their own thing ...but malim has just offered baby doll and 60s shift dresses ...a look which has been in fashion and done to death for the past 2 years . The chloe girl , is an "it" girl , not her marni "nerdy art girl" adversary , melim needs to realize that . Phoebe was a hit because she is an "it" and outgoing girl herself ,so she knew what girls wanted. The only things selling at chloe currently , are paddington bags and high waisted jeans ...all of which were started by miss philo...i hope he offers a new look this summer ,something more sexy and feminine and reflective of the 20s/30s/40s mood which is in paris but in the form of a more youthful sihlouette.

 

[kuba01]

^^^ well that's just ridiculous. The last time Phoebe Philo put high wasted jeans on the runway was literally 2+ years ago!!!

Besides, you can't say that the Chloe girl should be a high-wasted-jeans-wearing-Paddington bag-carrying girl.

Styles need to progress and move on - Paulo is doing modernizing the Chloe woman and he's doing a great job.

Phoebe's designs were the BEST, but at the time, and I feel that her aesthetic is not strong enough for this day and age.

 

[TheEyeOfFashion]

I love it. And i'm so glad the wooden heels are GONE!!! Well to another label hint hint YSL fall/winter 07

 

[disco54]

^^^ well that's just ridiculous. The last time Phoebe Philo put high wasted jeans on the runway was literally 2+ years ago!!!

Besides, you can't say that the Chloe girl should be a high-wasted-jeans-wearing-Paddington bag-carrying girl.

Styles need to progress and move on - Paulo is doing modernizing the Chloe woman and he's doing a great job.

Phoebe's designs were the BEST, but at the time, and I feel that her aesthetic is not strong enough for this day and age.

lol...i think dont think i am the one whose being ridiculous , currently the trapeze/baby doll shapes which miss philo put out are still going strong and the high waist trend took off this fall from a commercial perspective when she had put them out in spring 2004...nuff said...the crap melim comes up with doesnt sell , so he has to rely on shapes and bags which philo came up with to turn a decent profit...nuff said...

 

[kuba01]

^^ you just contradicted yourself because you said the stuff that Phoebe Philo put out in Spring 2004 is "still going strong", yet you assess the financial side of Paulo's collection not even half a year since it has been selling.

I think that maybe in 1-2 years time, people will start to understand and appreciate the aesthetic of Paulo and his Chloe woman - and only after a season has completely finished can we look at the commerical and monetary perspectives!

 

[disco54]

btw i have a friend who works in chloe nyc and she has noticed a substantial drop in clothing sales within the past few months , because customers find melims clothing dull ,austere and weird. Lot of the customers have been complaining it looks too marni. In any case , it is richemonts problem , since chloe girls like myself ( and i have been wearing this brand since the 70s) and I have seen a host of designers come and go at chloe . IF melim doesnt shape up for spring , its curtains for him. Moving fashion foward doesnt equate moving fashion in an ugly direction . Judging from his atrocious resort collection , he has confirmed the latter.

 

[disco54]

one more thing

your very confused hun, miss philo put out high waist jeans in spring 04 , she brought the karta look in spring 2006, well i will give melim one more chance to redeem himself for spring 2008 , if not .....but i have bad hunch and im usually right...

 

[kuba01]

^^^^ Well no offence to you, but Chloe is moving foward and trying to attract newer and YOUNGER customers

That is what Paulo said himself - the Chloe woman is specifically for younger, bohemian types. He has this nochalant type of girl subdued into his collections; notice the dock-martin inspired boots - its going to appeal to a young and quirky woman.


And I'm not here to argue with you - I am merely saying that fashion needs to move foward and brands need to re-define their image every now and again. Chloe can't be the same Phoebe-Philo-stuff over and over again.

 

[kuba01]

Caroline Winberg wearing Chloe Fall 07 - beautiful

celeb-city and style.com

 

[gius]

i agree looks should move forward

and..hmm i didn't see any baby doll dresses as mentioned in this collection
i guess it takes some knowledge about clothesmaking to really see the new designs in the clothing.. for things like shift dresses, he's definitely pushed it forward, updated them for current times. you can see for example changes in sleeve shapes and interesting new ways of decorating fabric surfaces and also the garment flows in a different way on the body

 

[chloehandbags]

The chloe girl , is an "it" girl , not her marni "nerdy art girl" adversary , melim needs to realize that . Phoebe was a hit because she is an "it" and outgoing girl herself ,so she knew what girls wanted. The only things selling at chloe currently , are paddington bags and high waisted jeans ...all of which were started by miss philo...i hope he offers a new look this summer ,something more sexy and feminine and reflective of the 20s/30s/40s mood which is in paris but in the form of a more youthful sihlouette.

I agree.​

I have been wanting Chloe to move on for some time, now - as I, personally, prefer a slightly darker aesthetic; but turning it into a starker version of Marni is not the way forward for Chloe, IMO.

As others have said, if I wanted Marni, I'd buy Marni!

As you can, no doubt, see from my avatar, I far preferred the late Stella and early Phoebe years and my absolute favourite was Phoebe's A/W '03 collection*, which was far more irreverent and hard meets soft than most of what came afterwards (which was mostly soft meets soft - the only hard element being the Paddy padlock!).

That's not to say that there aren't some nice elements in the collection - for example, I think the 'Secret Garden' line drawing prints are lovely (once one gets up close enough to be able to see them properly!). But as one can see, if one looks at the archives on the Chloe website, or reads the Chloe book; they are just not synonymous with Chloe, or even with French design, in general.

They remind me far more of Scandinavian design (which is hardly surprising, I suppose, since PMA is a Swede!).

Personally, I am tired to death of the minimal Scandinavian aesthetic; I had quite enough of IKEA telling me to 'Chuck out my chintz' in the late '90s/early '00s! That's not to say I didn't like it at the time, or that I want to live in a world full of chintz, because I don't. I just feel that austere minimalism has had its time and it's too soon for me to want to revisit it.

I think Stella and Phoebe were successful, because they put their own spin on the existing Chloe aesthetic, without stripping Chloe of its identity and as women, truly understood what women wanted to wear.

Whereas, unfortunately, PMA seems to be trying to make Chloe entirely his own.

Sadly, having viewed his collections and read the article about him, which was posted on this thread (thanks, BTW! ), intelligent as he no doubt is, I suspect that he may be a bit of a voyeur, who has a stereotypical view of women and girls and may lack three of the personality traits, which IMO, are essential for a truly great designer to possess in abundance; 1) flexibility, 2) acute social awareness and 3) empathy.


* Interestingly, US Vogue slated the A/W '03 show, whereas UK Vogue loved it. Having read many runway reviews, on both sites (www.style.com and www.vogue.co.uk), I have noticed that this disagreement between the US and the UK fashion press on what is considered to be good, or bad, in terms of fashion and style, seems fairly typical!

 

[kuba01]

^^^ Thanks for that post, it was great

I understand what you guys mean when you compare Chloe (Stella and Phoebe-era's) to the current Chloe.

I think they hired a man because they wanted to edge Chloe up and have it interpreted through a different set of eyes

Whether its working or not is a different issue...

 

[bedtimestorynyc]

I agree.​

I have been wanting Chloe to move on for some time, now - as I, personally, prefer a slightly darker aesthetic; but turning it into a starker version of Marni is not the way forward for Chloe, IMO.

As others have said, if I wanted Marni, I'd buy Marni!

As you can, no doubt, see from my avatar, I far preferred the late Stella and early Phoebe years and my absolute favourite was Phoebe's A/W '03 collection*, which was far more irreverent and hard meets soft than most of what came afterwards (which was mostly soft meets soft - the only hard element being the Paddy padlock!).

That's not to say that there aren't some nice elements in the collection - for example, I think the 'Secret Garden' line drawing prints are lovely (once one gets up close enough to be able to see them properly!). But as one can see, if one looks at the archives on the Chloe website, or reads the Chloe book; they are just not synonymous with Chloe, or even with French design, in general.

They remind me far more of Scandinavian design (which is hardly surprising, I suppose, since PMA is a Swede!).

Personally, I am tired to death of the minimal Scandinavian aesthetic; I had quite enough of IKEA telling me to 'Chuck out my chintz' in the late '90s/early '00s! That's not to say I didn't like it at the time, or that I want to live in a world full of chintz, because I don't. I just feel that austere minimalism has had its time and it's too soon for me to want to revisit it.

I think Stella and Phoebe were successful, because they put their own spin on the existing Chloe aesthetic, without stripping Chloe of its identity and as women, truly understood what women wanted to wear.

Whereas, unfortunately, PMA seems to be trying to make Chloe entirely his own.

Sadly, having viewed his collections and read the article about him, which was posted on this thread (thanks, BTW! ), intelligent as he no doubt is, I suspect that he may be a bit of a voyeur, who has a stereotypical view of women and girls and may lack three of the personality traits, which IMO, are essential for a truly great designer to possess in abundance; 1) flexibility, 2) acute social awareness and 3) empathy.


* Interestingly, US Vogue slated the A/W '03 show, whereas UK Vogue loved it. Having read many runway reviews, on both sites (www.style.com and www.vogue.co.uk), I have noticed that this disagreement between the US and the UK fashion press on what is considered to be good, or bad, in terms of fashion and style, seems fairly typical!

great post!
i might be in the grave minority, but to me nothing will ever top their F/W 06/07 collection by the Yvan and team! Some of the detailing was so impeccable and brilliant yet subtle!!! Lovely colors.... and that hide 3/4 sleeve high wasted jacket that set the trend for the next couple years!!!!
What do you think of the collection?

 

[disco54]

I agree.​

I have been wanting Chloe to move on for some time, now - as I, personally, prefer a slightly darker aesthetic; but turning it into a starker version of Marni is not the way forward for Chloe, IMO.

As others have said, if I wanted Marni, I'd buy Marni!

As you can, no doubt, see from my avatar, I far preferred the late Stella and early Phoebe years and my absolute favourite was Phoebe's A/W '03 collection*, which was far more irreverent and hard meets soft than most of what came afterwards (which was mostly soft meets soft - the only hard element being the Paddy padlock!).

That's not to say that there aren't some nice elements in the collection - for example, I think the 'Secret Garden' line drawing prints are lovely (once one gets up close enough to be able to see them properly!). But as one can see, if one looks at the archives on the Chloe website, or reads the Chloe book; they are just not synonymous with Chloe, or even with French design, in general.

They remind me far more of Scandinavian design (which is hardly surprising, I suppose, since PMA is a Swede!).

Personally, I am tired to death of the minimal Scandinavian aesthetic; I had quite enough of IKEA telling me to 'Chuck out my chintz' in the late '90s/early '00s! That's not to say I didn't like it at the time, or that I want to live in a world full of chintz, because I don't. I just feel that austere minimalism has had its time and it's too soon for me to want to revisit it.

I think Stella and Phoebe were successful, because they put their own spin on the existing Chloe aesthetic, without stripping Chloe of its identity and as women, truly understood what women wanted to wear.

Whereas, unfortunately, PMA seems to be trying to make Chloe entirely his own.

Sadly, having viewed his collections and read the article about him, which was posted on this thread (thanks, BTW! ), intelligent as he no doubt is, I suspect that he may be a bit of a voyeur, who has a stereotypical view of women and girls and may lack three of the personality traits, which IMO, are essential for a truly great designer to possess in abundance; 1) flexibility, 2) acute social awareness and 3) empathy.


* Interestingly, US Vogue slated the A/W '03 show, whereas UK Vogue loved it. Having read many runway reviews, on both sites (www.style.com and www.vogue.co.uk), I have noticed that this disagreement between the US and the UK fashion press on what is considered to be good, or bad, in terms of fashion and style, seems fairly typical!

Thanks for understanding my point ...chloehandbags....and the A/W show was the best (it had this romantic 70s yet gritty london of today meshed in together, the tiger print jeans and red blouse ... the good ol days.

Melim is intelligent , i mentioned he has a very cerebral outlook , you nailed it with the "scandinavian IKEA minimalism" description . Your right chloe has been saccharine for the past few seasons post A/W 03 but it shouldnt return to stark and minimalistic. That A/W show was dark but glamourous and there was details and emotion in the clothes. Chloe clothes add this cool and chic to your everyday life , what Melim has put out based on 3 collections he has done so far (fall , resort and the accessories) , its very stark . Giving the chloe girl a dark edge is fine but turning her into this boring and starki girl , which basically strips the essence of what a chloe girl is...