Designers Switching Houses & Moving to New Brands

[Deleted member 7575]

It’s quite funny to me to mention so often Frida considering that I really did not liked what she did at Gucci…

It's funny to me too!

She was barely relevant then and she most certainly is not now.

 

[RedSmokeRise]

Ugh, I really liked his menswear at Tod's. Wonder why he's leaving?

 

[MulletProof]

having face tattoos is something else.

holy s*it I just looked this up! that's..... face tattoos: the last frontier! haha

He looks kind of hot? Father John Misty 20 years later, or.. a teacher who can break down Foucault for high school students in 3 minutes. I like that.. makes me miss living there, I live kind of terrified of prints now.

I guess the pathetic/noble duality depends on which angle we want to examine his professional journey from. Within the realm of fashion? sure, forever trapped in the mediocrity of his last days at YSL. As a human who knows there's more in life than one industry that's worst than ever? much healthier than his contemporaries. I find Raf (and Demna and Hedi and all the others) a walking cautionary tale of how not to get sucked by the corporate world, it seems that's the only place he finds validation in.. you know the man is in desperate need of spirituality, time off, or exploring his creativity through another outlet that can enrich him and not deplete him, but doubt he would even know who he is if you take him out of corporate fashion. It's probably a worst situation than being unable to express yourself creatively (most people..).

 

[LadyJunon]

I must say that Stefano had the most spectacular rebranding I have ever seen in fashion… From being the epitome of bourgeoisie, living near l’Elysee, surrounding yourself with pseudo intellectualism, going to Le Baron to hanging out with the Berlin crowd, having face tattoos is something else.

But I find something noble in maybe going on your own, doing something exclusive, smaller, that speaks to you or a niche after having a big big job, made millions and relationships.

‘I often think about that when thinking about Nicolas Ghesquiere. For me if he goes higher, it has to be a Couture house…preferably Chanel, or flip the script and do like Hermes but then do something more personal. It’s the elegant way in a way…

It's funny that you say that because he still reminisces of his tenure at YSL, which was the house's longest other than Yves himself. Pilati's label seems to have a loyal following, but otherwise it's gone very quiet which leads me to guess that the press has become bored of him

The only other designers I've seen go fully indie in recent times were Olivier Theyskens and Marco Zanini. Theyskens had to change his operations twice before settling into a production/selling method that allowed him to be finally thrive in his small way, while Zanini seems to have folded due to the pandemic.

Ghesquière has a stronger industry caché behind his name, but in the eyes of the general public, he plays second fiddle to Kim/Virgil/Pharrell. He might not be able to garner a stable clientele using solely industry insiders.

That said, that second fiddle position could play in his favour. Since he isn't seen as the face of Louis Vuitton, along his reputation for reviving Balenciaga and creating a established ready-to-wear range at Louis Vuitton, he could possibly be a good candidate for a house like Chanel as he has the corporate experience without the trendy pop-culture baggage.

Also, Chanel's preference actual clothes as opposed to spectacular costumes, something that Arnault demanded to generate press, will force him to think outside of the box in terms of what avant-garde is.

I find Raf (and Demna and Hedi and all the others) a walking cautionary tale of how not to get sucked by the corporate world, it seems that's the only place he finds validation in.. you know the man is in desperate need of spirituality, time off, or exploring his creativity through another outlet that can enrich him and not deplete him, but doubt he would even know who he is if you take him out of corporate fashion. It's probably a worst situation than being unable to express yourself creatively (most people..).

Meanwhile his second-in-command was almost ready to move into furniture design, when Alaïa came knocking. Like night and day.

 

[Drusilla_]

^^^ You both bring up a potent point of a designer’s professional life that’s always been one my mind: How to continue on when your moment is gone.

I’ve always found talents like Ghesquier's and Hedi’s would be even greater had they built their own houses; Their names alone would look so good on a label... These last several years, I’ve developed a repulsion for fabled houses and their storied brands, and no longer covet them the way I once did. Of course, their legacy will always remain stedfast and unshakable, but if a once-adored brand like Prada were to disappear forever from the fashionscape, I wouldn’t blink a lash.

I get what you mean but it's not a guarantee and probably not worth the risk to them - Ghesquiere and Slimane have 20+ year legacies in the industry at labels that don't bear their names, but their influence and contribution to fashion in that time (irrespective of what you think of the actual designs) is far more than that of several of the people the "general public" do know. After all, Karl Lagerfeld had his own label too at the same time he was doing Chanel and Fendi but it was never as desirable as either and nor, in hindsight, was it necessary to bolster his legacy - decades at Chanel/Fendi did a far better job of that. That said, I doubt we'll see tentures that long for non-founder CDs anymore (barring Raf who seems to have been brought in with that aim in mind at Prada).

I mean, even Phoebe Philo is only now opening her own label, 17 years after her Chloé era ended and five after leaving Céline, and she's nearly the same age as Ghesquiere.

Same with Lucas Ossendrijver: HIs Lanvin was a main staple and inspiration of my wardrobe in the late-2000s. But his current Theory offering is the stuff of fashion depression for me. Both designers seemed to have had their days in the sun.

Speaking of Theory, this reminds me of when Olivier Theyskens was designing for them - it caused me a definite "????" reaction but also there are so many unspoken constraints on what they're expected to do within the industry - like designing for a mid-upper-market corporate-wear brand was a huge comedown from Rochas and Nina Ricci (even though I found the actual pieces quite well-designed and still wear one to this day). And ageism eventually gets to them too - pre-pandemic, I remember a BOF article talking about how some house was in the market for a new creative director but ruled out a highly acclaimed 50something designer who'd been CD at a previous label because they wanted someone younger and millennial.

 

[Lola701]

It's funny that you say that because he still reminisces of his tenure at YSL, which was the house's longest other than Yves himself. Pilati's label seems to have a loyal following, but otherwise it's gone very quiet which leads me to guess that the press has become bored of him

The only other designers I've seen go fully indie in recent times were Olivier Theyskens and Marco Zanini. Theyskens had to change his operations twice before settling into a production/selling method that allowed him to be finally thrive in his small way, while Zanini seems to have folded due to the pandemic.

Ghesquière has a stronger industry caché behind his name, but in the eyes of the general public, he plays second fiddle to Kim/Virgil/Pharrell. He might not be able to garner a stable clientele using solely industry insiders.

That said, that second fiddle position could play in his favour. Since he isn't seen as the face of Louis Vuitton, along his reputation for reviving Balenciaga and creating a established ready-to-wear range at Louis Vuitton, he could possibly be a good candidate for a house like Chanel as he has the corporate experience without the trendy pop-culture baggage.

Also, Chanel's preference actual clothes as opposed to spectacular costumes, something that Arnault demanded to generate press, will force him to think outside of the box in terms of what avant-garde is.

But I think this is where you put in perspective the difference between hype and pure loyalty…

Stefano’s work was good. He had 3 exceptional years at YSL. The house became profitable but except for his fabulous last menswear collection, between 2009 and 2012, his work wasn’t the best. He didn’t left in a high note with people mourning his departure like Tom and Hedi.

His work was influential… I remember being an early doubter of Phoebe’s Celine when the first ever lookbook was released, because it felt too Pilati.

But nobody is buying his clothes. I think he has talent but it can be exploited differently than what he is doing. Those shoppers don’t have an ounce of loyalty…Because already at YSL, he tried to over intellectualize everything.

Pharrell, Virgil and co’s own brands haven’t became cult neither. Their core audience is so changing that loyalty won’t enter in the discussion.

You know what the difference with Olivier or Marco is that they never reached that high level success. It was always successful with a but… And usually, great critical success but no commercial success. A but like Julie de Libran who was good as a number 2 with Peter at Vuitton by Marc, wasn’t that great at Sonia Rykiel and went on her own.

For me Olivier was badly advised. The biggest issue in his career was that he wasn’t commercial enough and instead of doing his own little thing in Paris and show during Couture right after he left Ricci, he went to Theory. He wasted so many years trying to prove to people he could sell instead of selling to the people who were willing to sell…Because Couture started to have a resurgence in the 2010’s with more and more women from Middle East. Sheikha Mozah who was a client of Stephane Rolland at Jean Louis Scherrer literally offered him a market by wearing his first few eponymous collections in her international state visits…

‘Nicolas always admired Azzedine. He used to go to his shows a lot and I cannot imagine that Azzedine’s way of working didn’t impact him.

‘I’m a loyal fan for example. I know a lot of women who bought Balenciaga back in the day and who are still buying his Vuitton. I think a big house like Vuitton can somehow make believable that you create a « new fan base » but it’s false. I don’t think that Margiela gained a ton of new clients with Hermes…Matter of fact, I knew some Margiela clients who hated his work for Hermes back in the day.

‘I think that Nicolas has tasted what his full expression might look like at Balenciaga…And he may want to find that again.

A case like Hedi for example is interesting because the kind of corporatism of the big groups works for him in a way. He can express himself at the fullest in the best conditions but we know that he has other interests. If Hedi leaves Celine, he will go back to photography…

I think it’s also important to start a brand for the right reason, with is, your real desire to express yourself. Karl started his brand for the wrong reasons, then tried to have it as place where he could experiment more but which was really an in-between because he was already free at Chanel and Fendi and because the suits had crazy dreams and expectations just because of the name attached.
The irony is that Karl’s own brand was at it peak when he was totally in charge after buying it in the late 90’s and when it became Lagerfeld Gallery. Suddenly, it was smaller and didn’t pretend to be something else, it was attached to the opening of the library and it felt like a real personal project. The collections were great, it sold to a niche but it existed because of the name Karl and everything he attracted (big names)…Then the non-sense started because obviously, Karl is not a suit and was charmed by Tommy Hilfiger.

‘We saw what happened to Herve Leger. The brand was super big, he lost everything and then set up his own little exclusive house. He had a coup de maître when he dressed Hilary Swank while being the CD for Guy Laroche. He completely ditched the bandage.

I mean look at Alaia. He was so big, lost almost everything but ultimately his brand was bigger when he died than at his peak. And it seems unreal because for the last 10 years before his death, he literally did a variation of 3 silhouettes…

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Nicolas Ghesquiere at Alaia would be a dream.

Absolutely Alaia was a huge influence on him.

 

[Nimsay]

Pilati was wonderful in a sort of rough hewn sort of way. He just wasnt a designer for expensive clothes. He is more of an outfitter than a designer. I think his YSL was one of the best interpretations of YSL and I think Yves wouldve loved the idea of it.

Now a days I think hes too busy popping whatever the kids pop and dancing his 50s away at whatever rave is occuring that night.

 

[Drusilla_]

Nicolas Ghesquiere at Alaia would be a dream.

Absolutely Alaia was a huge influence on him.

now that you mention it, I can see where his work could mesh with Alaïa aesthetics-wise, but on the other hand I suspect he'd also run into the same criticisms as Pieter Mulier - or at least ones in the same vein anyway.

 

[tourbillions]

Now a days I think hes too busy popping whatever the kids pop and dancing his 50s away at whatever rave is occuring that night.

Hmm i really dont quite mind random identities and given bigger "label" with those clothes, i think that people will see it differently. I like that his designs are a direct result of his current vibe. During his YSL era he was all groomed up and his clothes were the same. And now whatever you call his vibe reflects random identities. I definitely could see those clothes at Margiela for example.But I prefer them keeping the brand so I could afford them whenever i come across a random identities store. Currently unavaible where i am.

 

[Nimsay]

Hmm i really dont quite mind random identities and given bigger "label" with those clothes, i think that people will see it differently. I like that his designs are a direct result of his current vibe. During his YSL era he was all groomed up and his clothes were the same. And now whatever you call his vibe reflects random identities. I definitely could see those clothes at Margiela for example.But I prefer them keeping the brand so I could afford them whenever i come across a random identities store. Currently unavaible where i am.

i dont do unisex. Im a man and I need clothes to fit my body. Im not spending money to have something totally retailored to my body. I like Random Identities - just not enough to pay for it then pay again to alter the shape. There is this scallop collarless jacket that I might wear a lot. I just dont have time to experiment. Like thats why Stefano is here - to do that part for me. Thats the whole point of a fashion house - to do the work of fabrics cuts and styles for me.

Stefano has no business sense and stays on the internet too much. I cant believe its been around since 2018.

 

[Lola701]

Pilati was wonderful in a sort of rough hewn sort of way. He just wasnt a designer for expensive clothes. He is more of an outfitter than a designer. I think his YSL was one of the best interpretations of YSL and I think Yves wouldve loved the idea of it.

Did Yves ever liked somebody’s work though? Lol…
Even though my issue with Stefano back in the day was his way to over intellectualize everything (maybe coming from his deep admiration for Prada) and not understanding and embracing sensuality in his work (he wanted to distance himself from Tom and maybe win over Bergé), he had a fantastic run from FW2006 to Resort 2009 of consecutive successful collections. His pieces have stand the test of time for me.

And for some reasons, I really loved his menswear. The chicest men in Paris at the time wore his YSL.

But @tourbillions is totally right. His lifestyle inspired his environment and it can be difficult as a designer maybe because you end up living in a bubble..
But now I’m curious to see his environment in Berlin. I just can’t imagine that all the fancy stuff is gone.

 

[dodencebt]

But now I’m curious to see his environment in Berlin. I just can’t imagine that all the fancy stuff is gone.

I saw him in the Berlin U-Bahn a few months ago. He looked rough compared to the Stefano I remember lol

 

[kasper!]

COS

In: Patrik Ervell（Head of Menswear Design）

 

[Kennnnn]

COS

In: Patrik Ervell（Head of Menswear Design）

This makes me happy. I always enjoyed his approach to menswear. Also, just a really nice guy.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

COS

In: Patrik Ervell（Head of Menswear Design）

Fantastic news!

 

[Norden]

Wow great news! Love ervell

 

[tricotineacetat]

Regarding Pilati, perhaps it's best to compare his current output in fashion with that of other retired designers like Ann Demeulemeester or Helmut Lang, who are doing something similarly incomparable to the position they once held.

As far as I see it, Pilati is pretty content at this point not to be working for any of the big conglomerates and heritage brands as he knows very well the demands put on creative directors today - Just one look at the impossible task at hand for the new guy at Gucci and you know exactly why. He is happy to live a slower life at this point in his life where he keeps autonomy over something small, even if that means he won't be reach the same critical acclaim anymore. To ask of him to create collections as he did at YSL (similarly as forum members are demanding from Olivier Theyskens) is clearly only possible with the support of a large group behind their back - Just one look at Raf Simons' own label in the last years of it's existance would be a more realistic expectation, and fairly so, this has led him to close his house, rather than to keep going.

Even after what seemed like the most acclaimed couture collection for Gaultier, I can understand why Haider Ackermann has not used the steam yet to re-open his brand again. He must have seen how hard it was for Theyskens to come back at it independently and got a taste of it that all the support from his illustrous clique of supporters does not automatically lead to commercial success, either.

 

[LadyJunon]

Even after what seemed like the most acclaimed couture collection for Gaultier, I can understand why Haider Ackermann has not used the steam yet to re-open his brand again. He must have seen how hard it was for Theyskens to come back at it independently and got a taste of it that all the support from his illustrous clique of supporters does not automatically lead to commercial success, either.

Vaccarello better hold onto that YSL job for his dear life, then.

 

[Lola701]

Regarding Pilati, perhaps it's best to compare his current output in fashion with that of other retired designers like Ann Demeulemeester or Helmut Lang, who are doing something similarly incomparable to the position they once held.

As far as I see it, Pilati is pretty content at this point not to be working for any of the big conglomerates and heritage brands as he knows very well the demands put on creative directors today - Just one look at the impossible task at hand for the new guy at Gucci and you know exactly why. He is happy to live a slower life at this point in his life where he keeps autonomy over something small, even if that means he won't be reach the same critical acclaim anymore. To ask of him to create collections as he did at YSL (similarly as forum members are demanding from Olivier Theyskens) is clearly only possible with the support of a large group behind their back - Just one look at Raf Simons' own label in the last years of it's existance would be a more realistic expectation, and fairly so, this has led him to close his house, rather than to keep going.

Even after what seemed like the most acclaimed couture collection for Gaultier, I can understand why Haider Ackermann has not used the steam yet to re-open his brand again. He must have seen how hard it was for Theyskens to come back at it independently and got a taste of it that all the support from his illustrous clique of supporters does not automatically lead to commercial success, either.

But I think there’s something different with Pilati and Ann or Helmut. Ann and Helmut walked away…
Pilati wasn’t really sought after. Thankfully he managed to reinvent himself in Germany and to find a new creative groove that matched his lifestyle.

Regarding Haider, I feel like he wants a job. Obviously working with Gaultier means having a lot of ressources to express your talent. Re-starting again what he started years ago can be hard to overcome…

Vaccarello better hold onto that YSL job for his dear life, then.

He may restart his own house but it’s not easy…Look at KVA. After years of Dior and Berluti, being able to express yourself, having access to everything.

I don’t think Phoebe would have started her own brand without the support of LVMH…