Established Designers That You Just Don't "get"?

[PrinceOfCats]

Martin Margiela, Rei Kawakubo, Yohi Yamamoto, Jurgi Persoons and Bernhard Wilhelm are perfectly capable of creating good fashion however they seem to spend most of their life churning out avant-garde dross that is more pretentious than Emin and the Chapman brothers put together.

 

[faust]

Originally posted by Scott@Apr 21st, 2004 - 8:05 am
Mike,I don't really agree with you on Galliano. If you compare what he's doing now with what he was doing in the mid-latter 90's,the man has alot of talent. He's just not utilizing it these days. While I understand the talent aspect,what I don't get is the high praise for what he's doing now.

yep.

 

[mikeijames]

Originally posted by Scott@Apr 21st, 2004 - 8:05 am
Mike,I don't really agree with you on Galliano. If you compare what he's doing now with what he was doing in the mid-latter 90's,the man has alot of talent. He's just not utilizing it these days. While I understand the talent aspect,what I don't get is the high praise for what he's doing now.

don't get me wrong...i think that galliano is quite possibly one of the most innovative and creative voices in today's fashion....i just don't understand why everyone has encouraged him to continue in the same vein he has been doing for years. i used to love dior when he first started. some of those dresses were so new and un-expected and spectacular. even recently. i mean pairing a deconstructed dress wtih a tee over pencil pants and heels is such bold styling but it worked and i saw SO SO many women wearing it...but the past two or three years, it's just been a rehashing of the same old over-the-top stuff.

it's like i know dsquared is talentless so they need the fanfare and publicity of a raunchy extravaganza...galliano did not and does not need that. his clothes speak for themselves.

 

[faust]

I went with Cavalli. My choice would be DSquared, but I don's consider them established. Galliano is vulgar, but he used to have talent. Jacobs is such a no-show that I don't even want to talk about him.

I think Margiela is talented and artistic, but I don't think he utilizes it to his full potential. I'm also very unsure with his partnership with Diesel, I think it's a very bad move.

 

[twilight fairy]

umm i used to love cavallis stuff like 3 years ago..the colours..and everything. now i guess its gone down

versace i dislike. but dsquared's the worst..

 

[just Anna]

i actually quite like some stuff from the D SQUARED SS 2004

#1 is just sex and i especially like the purple shoes
#2 everything.. cuuuteee
#3 the little blue jacket
#4 everythinggg except for the hat..bleh

 

[Scott]

Originally posted by PrinceOfCats@Apr 21st, 2004 - 9:02 am
Martin Margiela, Rei Kawakubo, Yohi Yamamoto, Jurgi Persoons and Bernhard Wilhelm are perfectly capable of creating good fashion however they seem to spend most of their life churning out avant-garde dross that is more pretentious than Emin and the Chapman brothers put together.

Hmmmm...what exactly do you mean by avant-garde dross,Prince? And what is your definition of 'good fashion'?

 

[faust]

Originally posted by Scott+Apr 21st, 2004 - 3:34 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Scott @ Apr 21st, 2004 - 3:34 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-PrinceOfCats@Apr 21st, 2004 - 9:02 am
Martin Margiela, Rei Kawakubo, Yohi Yamamoto, Jurgi Persoons and Bernhard Wilhelm are perfectly capable of creating good fashion however they seem to spend most of their life churning out avant-garde dross that is more pretentious than Emin and the Chapman brothers put together.

Hmmmm...what exactly do you mean by avant-garde dross,Prince? And what is your definition of 'good fashion'? [/b][/quote]
i wanted to post something along those lines, but decided to let it go on "it's-a-matter-of-taste-to-each-his-own" premises. i'm too worn out from allergies to argue today

 

[PrinceOfCats]

Hmmmm...what exactly do you mean by avant-garde dross,Prince? And what is your definition of 'good fashion'?

Art with meaning. Something that's not just playing silly buggers with conventionality for giggles and laughs.

 

[ahhGucci]

Sadly, I'd have to agree with the Feline royalty

 

[Scott]

Originally posted by PrinceOfCats@Apr 21st, 2004 - 3:10 pm

Hmmmm...what exactly do you mean by avant-garde dross,Prince? And what is your definition of 'good fashion'?

Art with meaning. Something that's not just playing silly buggers with conventionality for giggles and laughs.

Sadly,I'd have to disagree with that quotation. Some of the designers you mentioned don't do 'art' they do 'clothes' with soul. And as far as playing silly buggers just for laughs and giggles....apparently you've never heard of self-expression,nevermind a little character. Or is that beyond the realms of conservative Armani for you?

But as said,to each his own.

 

[ebowleg]

I actually quite like all of the designers that were mentioned in the poll, except Martin Margiela because I never heard of them, but I don't really like Zac Posen...With the exception of his spring 2004 show, he has turned me off completely with his attitude...I saw a documentary with him where at one point he became really irritated with the camera's and pulled a Naomi on the crew...I have also seen other things on TV that just turn me off about him, therefore I generally do not take a second look at his collections...

 

[duckboy]

Donatella by a million

 

[Spacemiu]

Originally posted by Scott+Apr 21st, 2004 - 3:41 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Scott @ Apr 21st, 2004 - 3:41 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-PrinceOfCats@Apr 21st, 2004 - 3:10 pm

Hmmmm...what exactly do you mean by avant-garde dross,Prince? And what is your definition of 'good fashion'?

Art with meaning. Something that's not just playing silly buggers with conventionality for giggles and laughs.

Sadly,I'd have to disagree with that quotation. Some of the designers you mentioned don't do 'art' they do 'clothes' with soul. And as far as playing silly buggers just for laughs and giggles....apparently you've never heard of self-expression,nevermind a little character. Or is that beyond the realms of conservative Armani for you?

But as said,to each his own. [/b][/quote]
and what about progression

for instans i think Galliano and helmtu lang have been inspired by Kawakubo, and has helped to creat diffrent ideas and techinques in fashion.

as for pretensiousnes, i don't see ho3 just becuas its avant garde its pretensious.

 

[versace]

Everyones entitled to their own opinion right??
Well I love most of those designers:
I love:

Donatella - chic sexy
Cavalli - exotically wonderful
DSquared2 - casual elegance
McQueen - amazing/don't know what to expect each season
Galliano - breathtakingly beautiful - same as mcqueen also.. that dont know what to expect each season
Lagerfeld - modern innovative chic
Tom Ford (now gone ) - ultra ultra talented


But i dont get:
Balenciaga
Comme Gros - or wotever that name is (dont really care neway coz i dont like it)
Marc Jacobs - what the?? looks like junk to me!
Prada - ewww.. the colours/cardboard inserted into clothes.. hmmmmmmmm

 

[Scott]

Prince,for the sake of hostility my comment was said in a moment of passion. And I'm not getting on your case,but it seems every time we have this type of topic you have something horrible to say about the so-called avant-garde. Which,btw,is a term I use infrequently. Why is it that having a different set of ideals and aspirations in fashion be deemed pretentious? Is it because it isn't sucked into the mainstream agenda?

 

[MJCouture]

Originally posted by Orochian@Apr 20th, 2004 - 5:58 pm
Roberto Cavalli - I find most of his designs incredibly vulgar and garish. His catwalk shows are like the annual gathering of whores and hustlers. The male eqivalent of Donatella Versace. BTW, I don't consider her a "designer", so she doesn't even deserve a seprate place in this list.

This comment particularly bothers me. I think what people tend to ignore about Cavali is that he doesn't even try to be a Coco or Oscar. He is true to himself, has a constant look. I saw somewhere once that there were two types of women in Italy, Italian women, and Cavali women. Just because it doesnt suit yourstyle, and it is slightly over the top doesnt mean that it doesnt have presence in the fashion world. Not everything that goes down a catwalk is supposed to be wearable, it is supposed to represent the designer's vision. If Cavali thinks that women's t*ts should be falling out of their tops, and sees that as his ideal, than I am glad that that is what he designs. No one said you had to buy it.

And also I dis-agree that Donatella isnt a real designer. She not only ran much of the behind the scenes stuff for her brother, but I personally think she has done a fantastic job on her own. Not everyone can wear boring central-European black clothing. Some people like to have fun with clothing. It may not be for everyone, but that doesnt mean it isnt respectable.

 

[MJCouture]

after re-reading some of the posts on this forum I realize many of the members care little about the art of fashion. They care about wearable clothing, that while may still be beautiful, isnt really what all fashion should be about. I am not saying I am willing to wear a lot of the more avante garde pieces, but is surprises me how easily people are willing to cast off something that is different and praise something that is mediocre.

 

[brian]

Originally posted by Spike413@Apr 20th, 2004 - 7:14 pm
And second, why is something like what's on the left seen as brilliant, but something like what's on the right is seen as sl*tty. I don't get it......

The CDG "top" isn't a top at all. It's just a sheer piece of fabric wrapped around the models chests so that they wouldn't have to go out on the runway completely topless. Those aren't to be sold! That entire show was just showcasing the skirts.

The one on the right, however, was meant to be sold in stores therefore sl*t-O-RAMA ;D ;D

 

[purplelucrezia]

Originally posted by brian+Apr 21st, 2004 - 11:08 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(brian @ Apr 21st, 2004 - 11:08 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Spike413@Apr 20th, 2004 - 7:14 pm
And second, why is something like what's on the left seen as brilliant, but something like what's on the right is seen as sl*tty. I don't get it......

The CDG "top" isn't a top at all. It's just a sheer piece of fabric wrapped around the models chests so that they wouldn't have to go out on the runway completely topless. Those aren't to be sold! That entire show was just showcasing the skirts.
[/b][/quote]
In that case, wouldn't it make more sense just to give them plain black tops?
The exposure of the breasts just detracts from the skirts, in my opinion.