Givenchy Mens S/S 10 Paris

[b9409]

Personally, I think her beef with Tisci is personal. It is sad to hear 'insults' from her rather than just objective (well, how objective can you be really: if you like it you like it, if you hate it you hate it. The whole premise is set upon being subjective in reality, but still some unbiased and respectable...) criticism.

Calling a designer 'a stylist' is an insult to these people. I don't know, but a little civility makes life a little easier for all to bear.

About the collection:

- Hate the gold metallic mesh. (well, I hate the material in general: if your name isn't Gianni Versace, stay away from it pls)
- LOVE the b/w spread in the beginning (then again, who doesn't?)
- Loathe the over-abundance of star-studs, but love the tartan/plaid shirts with metallic embellishments. They are highly covetable and sexy.
- I am really excited about those 'shorts' -let's call them that. Wonderful shapes and looseness, but also I love how graphic they are with the geometric cuts and straight edges. Really lovely.
- Nobody is going to wear those leggings, so they are not even worthy to speak about.
- Hate the Arabian/Keffiyeh influenced anything here. Three seasons too late, Tisci. Galliano did this when you were playing with your ruffles and gold chains and crosses. Even H&M did those scarves in some way. Get with the program!

 

[mikeijames]

... "if she can't express her opinion on the collection without someone calling her out, then why the hell should anybody be allowed to?".

we, here in the blogosphere, deliver raw reaction. that's our job. and that's the value of the world wide web. it serves up gut reaction in full. you don't pick up a newspaper or a fashion magazine for the same reason you log onto a fashion blog. maybe one day we will.

however, when one gets into a position of influence -- like cathy horyn or suzy menkes or teri agins or robin givhan or alexandra shulman or carine roitfeld or franca sozzani or anna wintour -- you have a larger responsibility to at least back up your opinions with something besides a hunch. when you're in a creative industry -- i don't care if it's music, architecture, food, theatre, fashion, art, film, etc. -- these reviews matter. whether we like it or not, the stuff they write impacts the way important people react to these collections (many times before people even see the actual collections).

tisci spent months on this collection and it actually stands apart as one of the more creative ventures we've seen over the past two weeks -- look at armani, look at burberry, look at hermes. to call something clearly this superficially different in menswear banal really comes across as quite a slap in the face. especially when we know horyn can do better -- she is an amazing writer!

 

[b9409]

I don't think it is a matter of getting permission from someone to write anything: it is more about integrity and being mature enough to write something that is liberated from any bias, or crude insults. She is full of venom here, for some unbeknownst reason. It is not like I expect everyone to drool over this collection, but there is a line when you are becoming discourteous, or even dangerous, as a critic.

I personally think she crossed it here.

 

[BerlinRocks]

since when do stylists CREATE mesh tops in gold? when do stylists decide to choose leather as a fabric for men's shorts (i guess givenchy and lanvin have the same stylists)? reducing a designer of tisci's education and stature to "a stylist" while praising actual stylists (who i do love) like miuccia prada and others just strikes me as ignorant or intentionally disingenuous.

well stylists - when they do consult for a label - have a lot to say ...
sometimes, it's just about the show look, sometimes it's more than just styling the show. they help a lot the Art Director (please don't call Tisci a designer ....) to build a vision !

Panos here seemed to have help a lot Tisci ! (see Panos' thread and one recent special comment from one of his asst.)

 

[LP640]

I actually liked the collection and I the casting was beautiful.

 

[mikeijames]

Panos here seemed to have help a lot Tisci ! (see Panos' thread and one recent special comment from one of his asst.)

thanks for the thread referral....

it's clear panos played quite a role! but that's a good thing....it's an amazing thing given his work...

 

[Donatello89]

we have a lil mugler touch here....

 

[Zazie]

Ok, can you tell the difference between criticizing someone's WORK, and criticizing the PERSON? And also the difference between a critique and an attack? I'll admit I'm being critical of the tone of the posts here about Horyn, it doesn't mean I'm attacking them. I don't even agree with Cathy Horryn most of the time, really different tastes, but I find she is a tad better than the fashion writers who just kiss @ss because of the advertisers. Only the internet provides a more democratic and diverse opinion unbiased by $$$, and the NYTimes has the privilege of being THE newspaper of note and thus not dependent on advertising dollars. It'll be a shame to censor critical views in the press, whether you agree with them - they are almost an extinct species.

You can criticize the way she wrote her critique, and you did in your most recent post (and I disagree with your points...that's another story, but definitely, there are both sides to this collection EXISTING and posting and that's great and to be respected), but there's no need to go on the attack about her and her intentions - you don't really know her do you? None of us here do.

I think we all need to take a step back and breathe - Tisci's career will not be "destroyed", it's not the critics ultimately, but the SALES.

 

[Zazie]

I don't see her criticism of this collection as personal - it's one thing to say "this looks like a collection by a stylist", another to say "Tisci is a stylist, not a designer". Think about it, there is a difference. It also makes designers more human, they can come up with a bad collection and be called out for it. It makes them better, if they think about the reactions and not pick up the ball and go home.

 

[Zazie]

this is impeccable tailoring?!



men.style.com

mikeijames....please, I mean, grow up. I don't even want to quote the reviews from WWD, etc., obviously people who can judge if the tailoring's any good, and I've known KVA's work, he is a FANTASTC tailor, it is as a DESIGNER that I wonder prior to this collection. This isn't a fight. I don't even understand how you can find studded Givenchy t-shirts, gold mesh tops and collaged stars on the crotch "impeccable tailoring" or "creative venture" or whatever, but that's fine with me, that's YOU. You and I are obviously very DIFFERENT, and you know, it's ALRIGHT for both to EXIST. You can't go through life going after every opinion you disagree with, that's not "life", and that's not any fun in the end.

 

[Dkammern]

tisci spent months on this collection and it actually stands apart as one of the more creative ventures we've seen over the past two weeks -- look at armani, look at burberry, look at hermes. to call something clearly this superficially different in menswear banal really comes across as quite a slap in the face. especially when we know horyn can do better -- she is an amazing writer!

and so what?! every designer spends months working on collections and they do get bad reviews from suzy, cathy, all the name dropping you did up there... and also from us!
the "it's very creative" argument isn't valid either! you can get very creative, very innovative, whatever you want... but at the end of the day it's the public you've got to speak to. You need to be in the right place, right moment to make it all work. This feels like different for the sake of being different. being "too" apart from the rest (hermes, armani, burberry...) can be sometimes a bad sign too.
Good or bad, it's important to stay relevant

 

[mikeijames]

mikeijames....please, I mean, grow up. I don't even want to quote the reviews from WWD, etc., obviously people who can judge if the tailoring's any good, and I've known KVA's work, he is a FANTASTC tailor, it is as a DESIGNER that I wonder prior to this collection. This isn't a fight. I don't even understand how you can find studded Givenchy t-shirts, gold mesh tops and collaged stars on the crotch "impeccable tailoring" or "creative venture" or whatever, but that's fine with me, that's YOU. You and I are obviously very DIFFERENT, and you know, it's ALRIGHT for both to EXIST. You can't go through life going after every opinion you disagree with, that's not "life", and that's not any fun in the end.

words have damaging effects especially when spread across the eyes of millions of new york times' readers. now, we can agree to disagree about this collection -- and that of dior homme -- however i don't think that either one of us would call this collection banal. that's insulting. that's what horyn called this collection. we can agree to disagree on the merits of gold studs, but neither of us would argue that something with that detailing represents the type of clothes footballers would wear for free. that's insulting. that's how horyn described it. that's all i'm saying.

we can agree to disagree. we don't have to throw out civility when we do it. if you've ever worked in a creative industry, you know that these reviews MATTER. if you're a restuarantuer, you want to hang it on your wall. if you are a filmmaker, it can make or break you. in fashion, it's no different.

 

[mikeijames]

and so what?!...Good or bad, it's important to stay relevant

and i don't think either one of us would argue that givenchy is irrelevant. that's my larger point. this collection represents something so creative and different from every other thing we've seen this season that it deserves comment -- whether you love it or your hate it. you can't say it looks just like every other collection. that's intellectually dishonest. that's why i take issue with horyn's criticism.

when you refer to stuff footballers would get for free, you do not visualize this stuff tisci put forward on this catwalk! that's an insult!! it also misleads all those people who do read the new york times, but do not watch each and every show on the internet.

 

[Dkammern]

givenchy sure isn't irrelevant. but, as in a proposition for today's fashion arena (i was going to say market but i dont just mean this in economical terms) this collection is.
nuff said. ask around in 5 years time and nobody will remember this. plaid and studs, fine... what else?

 

[mikeijames]

givenchy sure isn't irrelevant. but, as in a proposition for today's fashion arena (i was going to say market but i dont just mean this in economical terms) this collection is.
nuff said. ask around in 5 years time and nobody will remember this. plaid and studs, fine... what else?

time will tell....

 

[sobigsobig]

Givenchy trying to prove anything?
I think that this is not a bad collection, They are like a knight fashion.
Era men should be brave like them.
Although their appearance is so ugly.
ps: a man known as the true sense of how a man?
miuccia prada is a women.
She did not understand.

 

[thounowest]

I love where tisci is going by complimenting his collection with the New Generation of Latin boys many from New York and the urban cites des Paris. (among other places), great visual pairing to start to a new decade.

 

[Janard Williams]

WTF!!!! $18.99!!!!! lmfaoooooo

http://www.virginblak.com/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=1263



vogue & virginblak.com

 

[Dkammern]

there's a wonderful new thread about designer knock offs and this should be PINNED as the number one post
20 dollars! if only they could rip off the feathered couture for that price as well (and so well)... it'd be wonderful to walk around a city with everyone looking so fabulously birdy!