i-D Spring 2022 : The 'Out of Body' Issue

[Xone]

Funny that this issue is out at the same time that all the Vogue editions are using the Body theme...

 

[aracic]

You see, if they threw in a third of a nipple, ditched that ridiculous little wig and worked a little on her expression, this could've been a great cover.

This Miu Miu collection is absolutely amazing and it is indeed great body positivity (and refreshing, too) to see the outfits styled on someone other than the skinny type of body.
And to touch on the latest post by @Sweet rus, I guess I get where you are coming from but wouldn't you say that it's nice that people can finally (well, not really but we're making baby steps in the right direction) feel safe and comfortable in their own skin (back rolls included) without feeling an enormous pressure by society to change themselves just so they could fit into some ridiculous body standards we all unfortunately still hold on to? There's always people who are striving for the perfectly fit and standard hot look (and kudos to them), but what about the people who just want to feel good about themselves the way they are? Why is it mandatory for fat people to lose weight in order to feel accepted? And of course people don't want to hear criticism when it comes to their bodies, because frankly people should just mind their own f*cking business. Other people's weight should always be off limits. But Paloma's a model and I suppose we are here to comment on her appearance in which case I must add that this is not obesity. She looks great, she looks happy and she feels safe and comfortable in her body and that's all that really matters and I applaud her for that! She rocks that Miu Miu, but the styling sabotaged her. And as offensive as skinny people around the world may find her, I'll bet there's just as many little fat girls finding inspiration and motivation in Paloma to stop worrying about their looks and to live their life to their fullest potentials.

And that's my rant for the night. Just my two cents on the topic.

 

[Bernie Flood]

I feel like they’re trolling her

 

[Zorka]

Oh you’re absolutely right! Toxic body shaming is so much better

I'll just repeat: "Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi."

And this isn't any kind of body shaming (at least not from my part!), but a STYLING shaming: all my life I have been taught that fashion and style mean expressing ourselves in a sophisticated and visually appealing way, but now (i.e. in the past couple of years) it's like all fashion magazines tries to convince me how, in fact, fashion and style mean dressing as inappropriately as possible for one's own physical build and /or age, so it looks as cheap and vulgar as possible!
Personally, I never (blindly) follow the seasonal trends, but primarily think whether a certain clothes suit my own personality and, certainly, my age; because no matter how muscular my body is, and well toned my legs are, at 47 wearing ANYTHING above my knees for me is simply UNACCEPTABLE!

 

[tigerrouge]

Both these covers have been produced to be provocative, so it's not surprising that we'll get a range of reactions - this is what the magazine wants.

 

[Sweet rus]

@Sweet rus, I guess I get where you are coming from but wouldn't you say that it's nice that people can finally (well, not really but we're making baby steps in the right direction) feel safe and comfortable in their own skin (back rolls included) without feeling an enormous pressure by society to change themselves just so they could fit into some ridiculous body standards we all unfortunately still hold on to? There's always people who are striving for the perfectly fit and standard hot look (and kudos to them), but what about the people who just want to feel good about themselves the way they are? Why is it mandatory for fat people to lose weight in order to feel accepted? And of course people don't want to hear criticism when it comes to their bodies, because frankly people should just mind their own f*cking business. Other people's weight should always be off limits. But Paloma's a model and I suppose we are here to comment on her appearance in which case I must add that this is not obesity. She looks great, she looks happy and she feels safe and comfortable in her body and that's all that really matters and I applaud her for that! She rocks that Miu Miu, but the styling sabotaged her. And as offensive as skinny people around the world may find her, I'll bet there's just as many little fat girls finding inspiration and motivation in Paloma to stop worrying about their looks and to live their life to their fullest potentials.

And that's my rant for the night. Just my two cents on the topic.

I think it is fantastic that nowadays people can feel more comfortable in their own skin, like people with vitiligo, with disabilities, people showing signs of aging (seriously, ageism is a bigger problem than body shaming imo), etc, and while the idea in theory is great and I support it 100%, in reality it turns into smth that is not good at all. For example, some women in the US don't want to be weighted at the doctor's office anymre because they are not comfortable (with the reality of things), I see people terrorizing brands on social media when they see a girl modeling clothes with reference "X wears size Large", they say: "How dare you say it's large, she is not even large" (she is). People (at least in the US, from my observation) are starting to lose a touch with reality and what actual normal, healthy size is. Also important to mention is that every industry comes with a standard: there is a standard in my industry, there is an industry standard in yours, why do regular women compare themselves to models? Their looks is not their job. Just because you don't look like Gisele Bundchen (name any model), doesn't mean you are not (beautiful). I am not going to cry if I can't hit a high note like Mariah or run like an Olympic champion, so why should I be upset that industry based off of certain looks might not be attainable for other? It's a problem if we feel inferior seeing people that are prettier, taller, thinner, bigger, smarter, etc. Re the shoot, I agree the styling and creative direction are not helping, also what happened with dressing for your body type? I have a family friend that is bigger, but "fat" is not smth I associate her with, because she just knows her body and carries herself beautifully, but here I see crop tops, white see-through leggings, skirts borderline showing smth you shouldn't see. What is wrong with presenting yourself in the best way possible

 

[aracic]

Re the shoot, I agree the styling and creative direction are not helping, also what happened with dressing for your body type? I have a family friend that is bigger, but "fat" is not smth I associate her with, because she just knows her body and carries herself beautifully, but here I see crop tops, white see-through leggings, skirts borderline showing smth you shouldn't see. What is wrong with presenting yourself in the best way possible

But that's part of the problem, right here. Why is there a belief that curves and imperfections should be hidden? Cropped garments are literally the it item of the season, why should there be a size limit on who gets to wear them? I understand your point about standards, but it is problematic because there is no inclusivity when it comes to garment sizes. We hardly see properly styled bigger models in editorial because there are no clothes made to fit them. There's hardly any in fast fashion either. It's always leggings, simple tops and garments that are oversized to hide as much as they possibly can. In editorial the models are either sexualized or stacked in unneccessary heaps of fabric, no in-between. It's wrong that people are expected to feel ashamed of their bodies, and it isn't a personal issue of regular people comparing themselves to supermodels. It happens because they know if they were ever to dare and wear the kind of clothes that your normal, healthy size wears, they'd be ridiculed like Paloma is right now. I know that there's a notion that when it comes to high fashion, people should work on themselves to fit the designer clothes, it seems very common. But if anything is unhealthy when it comes to size in fashion industry, then it's this specific belief that bodies conform to clothes. It is supposed to be the opposite and a mark of a great designer and tailor should be the ability to construct clothes that would flatter any size. But unfortunately that isn't the case and then we end up with mishaps like this. Although I still believe Paloma would've looked great in this particular outfit, but the beauty team and the pose ruin it.

 

[KoV]

I think the idea that "dressing for your shape/size" is often interpreted as "disguise your fat and cover your body if you're not slim" is sort of what Paloma and other models are pushing back against - the idea being their body is nothing to be ashamed of and hidden.

Models are putting their looks on display and making money off it, so I do think their physiques can be a fair part of the conversation. It's impossible to fully separate that from their work, from the images they produce, especially when their naked body is prominently displayed for the purpose of provoking a reaction, like it is here in Paloma's ed. I don't think anyone is asking us all to be fierce and outspoken advocates for all body types. It's not as though tall and slim models are underrepresented and fighting for spots on covers, ad campaigns, and editorials. They're not being pushed out of the picture, and certainly the vast majority of the most successful, currently booked and busy, and personal favs amongst users here are models that fall into that category. I think there's an interesting conversation to be had about whether or not there's a responsibility on the part of corporations with huge influence (publishing, fashion, etc.) to promote healthy standards (which could apply to more than just plus-sized models). But it's counterproductive to accuse people that aren't sample sizes of being unhealthy by default, obese, and not worthy of being seen. I mean the responses are just so damn cruel sometimes. Given the known statistics, many people reading or posting in these threads are not going to be slim themselves. Frankly I think the phrase "insecurity is loud, confidence is quiet" applies to those engaging in the body shaming conversations. It may be less about Paloma and more about ourselves and our own insecurities. Regardless, while it's good to have thick skin and take responsibility for your own feelings, I think I speak for more than just myself when I say sometimes the deliberate meanness of the reactions creates an environment where it's hard to have a healthy discussion without feeling personally attacked.


Anyway, here's a cover with Paloma, not at all hiding her body. I think she looks beautiful and every bit a model. Shame i-D flopped so hard with theirs.

vogue.com

 

[VogueDisciple93]

I wonder if Miu Miu had to custom make Paloma's look because the collection itself only goes up to size 12, and I'm pretty sure that's not a 12.

 

[mikel]

I'll just repeat: "Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi."

And this isn't any kind of body shaming (at least not from my part!), but a STYLING shaming: all my life I have been taught that fashion and style mean expressing ourselves in a sophisticated and visually appealing way, but now (i.e. in the past couple of years) it's like all fashion magazines tries to convince me how, in fact, fashion and style mean dressing as inappropriately as possible for one's own physical build and /or age, so it looks as cheap and vulgar as possible!
Personally, I never (blindly) follow the seasonal trends, but primarily think whether a certain clothes suit my own personality and, certainly, my age; because no matter how muscular my body is, and well toned my legs are, at 47 wearing ANYTHING above my knees for me is simply UNACCEPTABLE!

Well, still seems like body shaming to me, when you think that people can’t wear certain clothes because of the way their body looks.

And when you consider the literal meaning of “Quod licet lovi, non licet bovi”, you’re comparing Paloma to a cow. So…

 

[tigerrouge]

I believe that, no matter a person's size, it's important that they can find clothes to wear so that they can be a functional part of society.

I also believe that you can get away with all sorts of lifestyle choices when you're young, that you will not be able to sustain twenty or thirty years down the line. At that point, it won't be other people shaming you, it will be the basic experience of living inside your own body. When you're twenty or thirty, you're living life, but when you're fifty or sixty, you're living with consequences.

Taking any sort of cue from social media - that's not a plane of existence that's tethered to reality. From the filters placed over photos to the opinions dressed up in labels, social media is a place where people get to pretend they're rewriting the rules of reality. But that doesn't actually make reality go away.

So whenever I see magazine covers where someone's size is being used to provoke a reaction, in a way, I see a celebration of the power of youth - like wearing miniskirts, it's the ability to make these choices while you're young and still "get away with it" - and it would be a very boring world if everything and everyone looked like they stepped out of pages of Harper's Bazaar and the era of elegance.

At the same time, looking at this i-D editorial, I feel like it's groundhog day, and I see this same shoot churned out by magazines every time they work with someone who's not a standard fashion size. I know it's probably asking too much of magazines at the moment, but it is possible to find ways of styling different body shapes that don't involve someone being naked for half the editorial? Are we being asked to consider fashion or flesh?

 

[Xone]

I think its a good thing to see this collection on someone with a diverse body type in the ends we are back on the beginning, of course i understand the message behind this to accept yourself and wear anything you want no matter your size but can she? if the brand in the end are not gonna produce this or if its not translate in real life what's the point behind this? only representation...i believe representation without real action is a halfway work.

If people watching this go to plus size brands to recreate this look, it could be creative but the fact that these luxury brands don't produce to this specific demography is a little hypocrite, the same as runways shows...most of the time they wear filler looks, almost never opened or close shows and after that those looks are not going to production, so if a plus size saw that and wants to buy it she cannot bc its not available for her,so we are back at square one.

Also i understand that this is not a magazine's problem, they just do the creativity and seek their share of likes and regrams...just make me think about this overtime i see this. Of course I'm not saying that magazines should stop hiring plus size models just because their clothes are custom made for the shooting...it is just something I'm thinking...

 

[vogue28]

Cover #3 with Rosalia by Oliver Hadlee Pearch:

 

[mikel]

That’s a stunning cover!

 

[Kimy Jo]

Saoko papi saoko

 

[Valentine27]

That Cruz cover is making me feel so uncomfortable..

The fact remains the photo was taken when he was 16. I hope I'm not just being a prude or something, I know the age of consent in the UK is 16, not 18 like it is in the US, but he's still a minor. I feel strongly that the industry, regardless of technicalities and legalities, should be pushing more ethical standards. Putting an arguably sexualized photo of someone who is a minor, a child on the cover of the "body" issue of your magazine alongside sexualized photos of adult models wearing schoolgirl inspired outfits is definitely crossing a line. Where are his parents? Don't they have enough sense and resources to be focusing on giving their kids an education or something instead of thrusting them onto the unwilling public in such a gross way? I'm disgusted but unfortunately not surprised.

In all honesty, I like Cruz's cover, but now I've realized that he's only 16/17, yes, I understand your point. Uncomfortable. It reminds me of Monika Jagaciak for Jalouse magazine in 2008... She was only 14 at the time :

Spoiler: /

jagaciaksource on tumblr

 

[vogue28]

Cover #4 with Hunter Schafer by Stef Mitchel:

 

[leyy]

Hunter Schafer: "As humans, we have this weird attraction to fitting in"
Photography: Stef Mitchell
Styling: Alastair McKimm
Hair: Bob Recine
Make-up: Diane Kendal
Model: Hunter Schafer


i-d digital

 

[dior_couture1245]

People (at least in the US, from my observation) are starting to lose a touch with reality and what actual normal, healthy size is. Also important to mention is that every industry comes with a standard: there is a standard in my industry, there is an industry standard in yours, why do regular women compare themselves to models? Their looks is not their job. Just because you don't look like Gisele Bundchen (name any model), doesn't mean you are not (beautiful). I am not going to cry if I can't hit a high note like Mariah or run like an Olympic champion, so why should I be upset that industry based off of certain looks might not be attainable for other? It's a problem if we feel inferior seeing people that are prettier, taller, thinner, bigger, smarter, etc.

Perfectly said.

And yes - people are completely under the spell now that being obese is somehow...healthy? People who are quite large say they eat healthy and exercise...but if anyone has even the smallest insight into how the body processes food, it's a very simple equation of calories in and calories out...you can quite literally calculate your macros based on height, weight, and exercise level. You do not get to be that big eating a lightly dressed salad two times a day. It's not possible. As in...it actually cannot happen. So, some other eating is going on, perhaps at midnight, that I find most are unwilling to admit.

There are some decent photos in Paloma's editorial, but I really find her one-dimensional...despite being...very three-dimensional.

 

[Sweet rus]

But that's part of the problem, right here. Why is there a belief that curves and imperfections should be hidden? Cropped garments are literally the it item of the season, why should there be a size limit on who gets to wear them? I understand your point about standards, but it is problematic because there is no inclusivity when it comes to garment sizes. We hardly see properly styled bigger models in editorial because there are no clothes made to fit them. There's hardly any in fast fashion either. It's always leggings, simple tops and garments that are oversized to hide as much as they possibly can. In editorial the models are either sexualized or stacked in unneccessary heaps of fabric, no in-between. It's wrong that people are expected to feel ashamed of their bodies, and it isn't a personal issue of regular people comparing themselves to supermodels. It happens because they know if they were ever to dare and wear the kind of clothes that your normal, healthy size wears, they'd be ridiculed like Paloma is right now. I know that there's a notion that when it comes to high fashion, people should work on themselves to fit the designer clothes, it seems very common. But if anything is unhealthy when it comes to size in fashion industry, then it's this specific belief that bodies conform to clothes. It is supposed to be the opposite and a mark of a great designer and tailor should be the ability to construct clothes that would flatter any size. But unfortunately that isn't the case and then we end up with mishaps like this. Although I still believe Paloma would've looked great in this particular outfit, but the beauty team and the pose ruin it.

It's a bit hard for me to explain here, because I feel like it's common sense. There is nothing wrong with knowing your strong sides and weaknesses, why do we want to find jeans that make our butt higher and perkier, legs - longer and leaner, waist - slimmer, why do we choose a haircut that compliments our face shape? Why do we have to put focus on the imperfections (what is up with this exhibitionism?) , when we can present ourselves in a better way? Why do chubby people like to, say, wear super thin stretchy fabric that emphasizes every roll, instead of getting more structured pieces that will sort of gather them and create a nice shape? Btw fat does not = curvy, curvy is about proportions, but nowadays it's a politically correct term used for bigger woman for some reason. Shouldn't fashion and styling teach us how to embrace what we have and get the most out of our looks? My whole life I genuinely want people to look nice, but I feel some just purposely want to put their worst foot forward. We don't see such models dressed properly because : a) it's harder to dress someone who is not slim (and borderline impossible if you are obese), b) stylists don't know what to do with it, c) clothes are done poorly. Have you seen recent Vogue Russia by any chance? I think softer, rounder body is captured so much nicer in comparison to this shoot.
I don't know if anyone is being ridiculed these days, I see big women around carrying themselves like they are beauty pageants, and they should be confident of course. I guess it depends a lot on where you were brought up, what is considered normal on American market, is not normal, say, in Eastern Europe or Asia, and it's not because people are different, it's because there is no culture of healthy eating. To me (and I am not a doctor here) Paloma doesn't look very healthy, especially given how young she is, if I have to be honest with you. We can go back and forth discussing standards, confidence, shame, etc, but we will agree on one thing: people should be comfortable in their own skin, no one should make a comment about how you look, but the point I am trying to make here is 1) I see the side where body positivity is used to justify one's primitive reflexes, 2) challenges any reasonable criticism and is actually harmful for some people in a long run. I think society nowadays doesn't want to be challenged in any shape of form in general, it's constantly asks for approval "Tell me it's ok, tell me I am alright". And lastly, I don't think models should look like regular people, it loses the whole point of the profession, with a real model you don't have do this acrobatics with make-up artist, photographers, stylist, Paloma is a pretty woman for real life, but she is just so awkward on the runway or in most pictures