Junya Watanabe F/W 2022.23 Tokyo

[Lola701]

It’s stunning. The funny thing about Junya is that he moves around the same themes again and again but somehow, the magic is still intact. I have pieces from +10 years ago in the same vibe and they are timeless and still Lights up the simplest of look.

What I love about those pieces is the Couture feel to it while being totally practical and made for everyday life. The bar bomber jacket, the opera coat or the manteau cloche are stunning.

You can wear them with a long jersey black dress for the evening and for everyday life, a pair of black pants and some brogues, a cashmere polo shirt and it’s a done deal!

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Junya is easily one of the great designers.

But I don't think their fabrics are all that great.

A friend of mine was being backed by DSM and had his collection sold there and I gained some insight into their costing and production formula.

Basically, almost all of each garment's cost is allocated to cut and make (otherwise known as the "CM" charge) and very little to their fabrics. As a result, most of the fabrics are rather cheap. But this makes a lot of sense given the intensity of their construction. Also, most of the pieces are marked up to make profit once sold on sale.

This is not a fixed rule (the way the markup is at Kering and LVMH owned brands) but a general strategy for selling their complex and intricate pieces.

But it's why Junya and especially CDG use SO much poly.

 

[eugenius]

^Please don’t tell me that Junya’s fabrics aren’t that great. You’re flattening that fantasy for me. Hashtag ignorance is bliss.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

^Please don’t tell me that Junya’s fabrics aren’t that great. You’re flattening that fantasy for me. Hashtag ignorance is bliss.

I don't think it's every piece and I'm sure you can decide for yourself which ones are and aren't.

 

[jeanclaude]

@runner Thank you very much for all the pics! This is pure clothes p*rn fest for my eyes!

 

[runner]

^ glad you like the pics

years ago I was shopping at helmut lang. there were also there what looked like a high school boy and what must be his mother. the boy seemed to want cotton t-shirt and nylon jkt and the pashmina mother said, looking at the prices, "nonsense" in sort of angry mood.
her perspective is understandable. but personally I prefer knitted nylon/polyester micro fiber to pashmina. I'd like to buy what I like if possible.

also if the theme is punk, street, destruction, or offbeat, whatever, you'd make it cool by meas of being remote from conventional value.

anyway it depends on periods you refer to.
there were times when creating new fabrics was as important as creating new shapes. each season about 60 original fabrics were made in japan for one line and once they were used, they were never used again. fabric fetish, material paranoid. carpe diem, carol christian poell, etc could be all successors to comme (as well as yohji, miyake) in this regard.

and you'd see seasons they were not able to use original fabrics. for financial reasons, or for larger-scale production (you cannot get tasteful artisanal special fabrics that much, using vintage looms whose productivity is 1/5 in comparison with modern looms. they work slowly.), or for the decline of textile industry. human resourses too. some things are in the hands of certain individuals. not easy to find their replacements. actually hiroshi matsushita (who worked for rei and yohji) has already gone.
lastly it would be hard to defy adrian effect.

being black, white, and occasionally red also matters when it comes to comme.

 

[runner]

junya makes good basics.
the jeans from this season



artwork-shop

 

[tricotineacetat]

Junya is easily one of the great designers.

But I don't think their fabrics are all that great.

A friend of mine was being backed by DSM and had his collection sold there and I gained some insight into their costing and production formula.

Basically, almost all of each garment's cost is allocated to cut and make (otherwise known as the "CM" charge) and very little to their fabrics. As a result, most of the fabrics are rather cheap. But this makes a lot of sense given the intensity of their construction. Also, most of the pieces are marked up to make profit once sold on sale.

This is not a fixed rule (the way the markup is at Kering and LVMH owned brands) but a general strategy for selling their complex and intricate pieces.

But it's why Junya and especially CDG use SO much poly.

When you look at the majority of CdG / Junya Watanabe outerwear (= the pieces that end up being the most complex in terms of construction), those pieces would often derive from iconic garment classics - The trench coat, the field jacket, the bomber, or the gabardine blazer. It's befitting they would employ authentic fabrics usually utilized for such garments, although as runner already mentioned, the Japanese recreate them using old looms and different fibre constructions to create utlitarian fabrics that with a subtle twist, either in the drape, hand or texture - This suits the type of designs they are creating, and while this isn't abiding the luxury demands of the established luxury goods houses, they are also catering to a completely different customer. I don't think anybody really looks for an understated, classic cashmere coat when you go to Yohji or Comme. That's what Jil Sander stood for.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

When you look at the majority of CdG / Junya Watanabe outerwear (= the pieces that end up being the most complex in terms of construction), those pieces would often derive from iconic garment classics - The trench coat, the field jacket, the bomber, or the gabardine blazer. It's befitting they would employ authentic fabrics usually utilized for such garments, although as runner already mentioned, the Japanese recreate them using old looms and different fibre constructions to create utlitarian fabrics that with a subtle twist, either in the drape, hand or texture - This suits the type of designs they are creating, and while this isn't abiding the luxury demands of the established luxury goods houses, they are also catering to a completely different customer. I don't think anybody really looks for an understated, classic cashmere coat when you go to Yohji or Comme. That's what Jil Sander stood for.

Maybe Yohj is using those fabrics but that's not what I'm talking about with CDG. I'm just talking about CHEAP nasty fabrics with no nuance or distinction.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Also, I find CDG and Japanese fashion in general to be considerably less expensive when purchased in Japan. At least 30% less expensive, even more when you factor in no taxes with a foreign passport.

I don't go to Japan regularly anymore but its hard to pay the hire prices after having had the same goods available for so much less.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Also, I find CDG and Japanese fashion in general to be considerably less expensive when purchased in Japan. At least 30% less expensive, even more when you factor in no taxes with a foreign passport.

I don't go to Japan regularly anymore but its hard to pay the hire prices after having had the same goods available for so much less.

In contrast European goods are crazy expensive over there.

Also, I find CDG and Japanese fashion in general to be considerably less expensive when purchased in Japan. At least 30% less expensive, even more when you factor in no taxes with a foreign passport.

I don't go to Japan regularly anymore but its hard to pay the hire prices after having had the same goods available for so much less.

*Higher

 

[MulletProof]

^ I mean, isn't that 101 of import charges? haha. Travel costs are balanced out well with the costs of import, customs, clearance, shipping, administrative work, demand -or lack thereof-, you name it. If we start getting uneasy on imports costs upon finding out what things costs locally, you'd never eat an avocado again! [five cents vs. 3.99, fyi].

 

[Deleted member 7575]

^ I mean, isn't that 101 of import charges? haha. Travel costs are balanced out well with the costs of import, customs, clearance, shipping, administrative work, demand -or lack thereof-, you name it. If we start getting uneasy on imports costs upon finding out what things costs locally, you'd never eat an avocado again! [five cents vs. 3.99, fyi].

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about having gone and shopped in Japan regularly and now having to pay the higher prices here in the US. I never paid for my flights, hotel or food because I always went for work.

 

[MulletProof]

^ so where is the 30% coming from if it was not OOP?

(sorry be awfully pedantic, you owe transparency to no one, I KNOW )

 

[Deleted member 7575]

^ so where is the 30% coming from if it was not OOP?

(sorry be awfully pedantic, you owe transparency to no one, I KNOW )

Yeah, I never said it wasn't. It goes without saying that the price goes up as an export. Duh.

My point is that I don't like paying the higher prices in the US after having paid lower prices in Japan.

I dont understand what you're not understanding or how many more times I have to explain it.

 

[tricotineacetat]

My point is that I don't like paying the higher prices in the US after having paid lower prices in Japan.

I understand your concern and in reverse, that's a huge reason as to why a large percentage of luxury shoppers in Europe are tourists from outside the union - I would go as far as to assume a large motivation for their travels is luxury goods shopping. But that in turn, also begs the question how far removed the prices for luxury goods are from the actual worth of a garment, bag or shoe - Especially in the eye of major heritage labels like Bottega Veneta or Chanel raising the prices of their leather goods.

I can maybe add to the fact that the Yen had been an especially unstable currency in the mid 2000s, which caused a drastic raise in prices for most Japanese designers on overseas markets and therefor heavily affected their businesses: Y's, Yohji Yamamoto's supposed RTW line, suddenly found itself as expensive as the mainline brand, which made it very hard market it or several seasons. Retail customers ordered significantly less or dropped the line downright at the time.

 

[runner]

CHEAP nasty

I'm not a fan of the combination of the two either though, fashion is that which has one foot in that kind of zone which she was talking about.

"a conspiracy of snobs. Innovation is relaxation now; today’s E-Z Art gives the green light to all. In the cultural climate favoring the more user-friendly art of recent years, the beautiful seems, if not obvious, then pretentious. Beauty continues to take a battering in what are called, absurdly, our culture wars." - susan sontag

while this is not just about CdG, they are in pressing need of bringing in younger audience, who could be more familiar with this sort (takashi murakami) than something subtle or austere.






artfans
wiki

 

[MulletProof]

I understand your concern and in reverse, that's a huge reason as to why a large percentage of luxury shoppers in Europe are tourists from outside the union - I would go as far as to assume a large motivation for their travels is luxury goods shopping. But that in turn, also begs the question how far removed the prices for luxury goods are from the actual worth of a garment, bag or shoe - Especially in the eye of major heritage labels like Bottega Veneta or Chanel raising the prices of their leather goods.

That's a legit, more honest question and I think/hope we all wonder about the schemes to mark up goods, but as consumers, we should also self-check sometimes before we enter rampant consumerism territory, aka. Mutterlein's concern, which is actually the opposite of a concern, it's indifference towards the factors involved in costs through a pretty open preference for duty free goods and skipping the impact of travel costs, which again, any consumer will relate to (who doesn't like a discount or a company refund) and a healthier rationale that is consistent with this 'concern', if it was one, would be to land on that second paragraph of yours (economy/inflation/trade agreements), instead of the product itself masking some import/export-for-dummies logic as supporting evidence to the cheap nasty fabric claim when the only evidence is a) hearsay/informal source [unverifiable "insider" info], and b) that you feel entitled to a discount, and if you can't get it, you will discredit the product altogether.

 

[softgrey]

I'm not a fan of the combination of the two either though, fashion is that which has one foot in that kind of zone which she was talking about.

"a conspiracy of snobs. Innovation is relaxation now; today’s E-Z Art gives the green light to all. In the cultural climate favoring the more user-friendly art of recent years, the beautiful seems, if not obvious, then pretentious. Beauty continues to take a battering in what are called, absurdly, our culture wars." - susan sontag

while this is not just about CdG, they are in pressing need of bringing in younger audience, who could be more familiar with this sort (takashi murakami) than something subtle or austere.


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artfans
wiki

very good visuals to illustrate your point...

 

[Machinegumm]

Incledible, seeing the pieces "in the wild." Thank you so much for the pictures!