Karl Lagerfeld disses Heidi Klum

[agee]

Well you stated that Claudia was the most famous, what was your basis for that? I am not backing down on my premise, based on my same approach using a name you introduded, if you do a search on Cindy Crawford, she does in fact come out on top vis a vis Klum, Lagerfeld and Shiffer. When I challenged the premise, I was challenging your conclusion that Cindy Crawford came up short, what did you base your assertion on that she did not?

In general my method is what you would call quick and dirty, however there are limits, and in general I don't compare people from vastly different generations and "areas of expertise," in other words I don't consider comparing Marilyn Manson to Marilyn Monroe valid.

 

[nanker_phledge]

Cindy Crawford : results on google search : around 4 000 000
Heidi Klum : 8 700 000
Claudia Schiffer : 2 370 000

I was just referring to your citing of search engine results as a reference to measure fame.Mine was more based on ads/covers/tv/press,all in all media exposure,(I quote myself : 'Heidi's spectrum of visibility is a lot more constricted than the one Claudia occupied (do I have to refer to the number of covers/appearances/ads ?')) .Therefore,in my opinion, it probably makes Cindy more famous than the other two models and therefore Marilyn Monroe more famous than Marilyn Manson since it's clear she's more exposed media wise than he is (I don't think I even need sources for that, whereas basing it on google, she is less mentioned than Marilyn Manson).That's why I said that the internet exposure argument made no sense, it doesn't reflect the celebrity or exposure they seem to get.

 

[renegadelovers]

Even if Karl had a good reason to be trashing them, the fact that he did it so publicly is kinda pathetic. Of course there are lots of sides to a story like this, but isnt he too old to play games using the media? Ive always liked Karl, and been annoyed with Heidi, but its kinda sad that he had to go this route.. makes me prefer Heidi and Seal, who at least, kept their words to themselves.

 

[Littleathquakes]

I think it's a little ironic that Karl even says Heidi is too busty. One of his current favorite models, Lara Stone, isn't exactly the high fashion thin girl that the industry wants either. In fact she's also too busty by model standard.

 

[Littleathquakes]

I disagree.
Firstly, because as I said, Claudia Schiffer is certainly more famous than the two of them and that was my main point regarding what agee wrote,(there's no point in denying that, I guess.You'd find a lot more people who would recognise the name or face of Claudia than the ones of Lagerfeld or even Heidi).

About the name thing, Claudia is a supermodel because people refer to her by her first name (that's one of the reasons and that's the case for the other ones too, the Linda, Cindy, etc) and she gets recognised merely by it.Heidi ? Not so much,do people solely refer to her by her first name ? People would have to guess, adding to that, her spectrum of visibility is a lot more constricted than the one Claudia occupied (do I have to refer to the number of covers/appearances/ads ?).

All in all, yes, Claudia is certainly by far more famous than the two of them.

p.s : my point isn't based on somekind of Claudia vs Heidi or Karl..I can't stand them actually.

Where are you located? I guess it's different in different regions. In the US, Heidi Klum is known by first and last name. You can say Heidi Klum or simply Heidi and people will know who you're talking about.

It doesn't mean you need to say Klum after Heidi in order to differentiate her from any other famous Heidi, or that you need to say her full name because otherwise you won't know it's Heidi Klum you're talking about.

In fact, there's only one other famous Heidi in the media, and it's the reality TV star Heidi Spencer. But no one is going to confuse the two, when you say Heidi, people will know it's Heidi Klum you're talking about.

 

[designerleather]

One of the ways I think of it...

You say Linda Evangelista and I can picture 2 dozen photos in my head, many magazine covers, etc.

Same goes for Cindy and Claudia.

Heidi?

Not one off of the top of my head.

Likewise, if I took the three famous shots of each model and put them together and randomly picked people on the street, GUARANTEED Cindy and Claudia would be the top of the heap in terms of peopel recognizing their photos and recalling their name, Linda would be next, and Heidi the least identifiable.

And as for the Google search? That proves what? Pamela Anderson would return 19,000,000 hits and Linda Evangelista only 615,000.

Does that mean that Pam Anderson is an even bigger super model than Cindy, Linda, and Claudia combined? Or does it mean that Pamela is more commercial?

 

[TREVOFASHIONISTO]

I dont think it really matters who is more famous...ok Heidi Klum isn't considered to be a super model by numerous people on here but t me a supermode is someone known worldwide because of their modeling success..Heidi has covers, she has been shot by excellent photgraphers such as Meisel, has done ads(H&M , VS), and is known all over the world..she might have not done as much as the 90s girls but she is holding her weight...im not a fan of hers but some of you are acting as if she has only done VS

 

[Torchb3arer]

Where are you located? I guess it's different in different regions. In the US, Heidi Klum is known by first and last name. You can say Heidi Klum or simply Heidi and people will know who you're talking about.

It doesn't mean you need to say Klum after Heidi in order to differentiate her from any other famous Heidi, or that you need to say her full name because otherwise you won't know it's Heidi Klum you're talking about.

In fact, there's only one other famous Heidi in the media, and it's the reality TV star Heidi Spencer. But no one is going to confuse the two, when you say Heidi, people will know it's Heidi Klum you're talking about.

Yeah, i'm in favour with you. Heidi governs the media in Germany, she really does. You switch on the TV and you see her like 2-4 times in only one commercial break (Mc Dondalds, Douglas, Katjes, Volkswagen etc.) as well as in serveral telecasts like Germany's next Topmodel. Everybody knows who you're talking about if you say "Heidi" in Germany/Austria/Switzerland.

It's not the same with Claudia Schiffer. A great many people does not even know who she is.

 

[designerleather]

I would classify Klum as a Swimsuit or Lingerie model. Out of her body of work, how much does VS and SI account for her modeling. Or for that matter how much of her work is H&M and VS (i.e. mail order catalog)? I'd almost be willing to bet that VS is 50% or more of Heidi's work.

Now we may never know what put a hair across Karl's butt that started the comments, but part of the core discussion is Supermodel versus Commercial Model.

"That is not avant-garde - that is commercial."

I think also at the core is that there was a small period of time where models did transcend beyond the normal boundaries... This period of the late 80s through 90s. As that period faded, the media kept the labels and still needed to feel like they could lump people in to that category to always have who are this era's "super models"

It does not translate eras, however. If you took Claudia, Linda or Cindy and picked a 3 year window at the peaks of their careers and counted the number of covers, editorials and runways and compared that to the Heidi Klums, Giselles, or Adriana Limas, I think the empirical comparison would really show how omnipresent these models were in the fashion world. Giselle actually might be on par

Times have changed as well. Just look at the lookbooks of the 90s as well. From Versace, Escada, Chanel and others, they would produce 200 to even 300+ bound catalog with the top photographers and decent paper. Chanel tended to be smaller, but still, theirs also were hard bound

Times change. Fashion changes. Media and Marketing certainly have as well.

 

[Torchb3arer]

I dont think it really matters who is more famous...ok Heidi Klum isn't considered to be a super model by numerous people on here but t me a supermode is someone known worldwide because of their modeling success..Heidi has covers, she has been shot by excellent photgraphers such as Meisel, has done ads(H&M , VS), and is known all over the world..she might have not done as much as the 90s girls but she is holding her weight...im not a fan of hers but some of you are acting as if she has only done VS

If you compare Heidi Klum's quantity of high fashion work with ones of an high fashion model like Toni Garrn, you'll see that she can't be concidered as a supermodel.

Heidi works as a model since 1997 (?) now. Toni just since 2007. It's kind of obvious that Heidi is not a Supermodel/Topmodel.
Only a few of Heidi's jobs are even fashion commercial!

Heidi Klum

Runway: Zac Posen

Appreciable Cover: Vogue Paris October 2000, Vogue Germany May 2003 & June 200, Vogue Spain April 2003

Camapaings: Givenchy 'Amerige' fragrance

Photographers: Steven Meisel

___________________

Toni Garrn

Runway: for like every big designer

Appreciable Cover: Vogue Germany August 2008 & March 2009, Vogue Italy November 2008, Vogue Russia January 2009

Campaigns: Calvin Klein, Calvin Klein Jeans, Donna Karan, Chloe, Emporio Armani, Etro, Fendi, Hugo Boss, Boss Black, Jill Stuart, Prada, Versace fragrance

Photogrpahers: all important ph.

 

[Iloveyoutoo]

^But no one would ever mistakenly call Toni a supermodel. Because no one oustside of the fashion world even knows or cares who she is. Also, Im pretty sure Heidi has worked with all the important photographers, and she has had way more ads than that.

High fashion doesnt matter that much in terms of making someone a star like it did back in the day. And most of those models would give thier right arm to have a career like Heidi's.

Ask 10 radom people on the street (in the US I dont know about other countries) who their top 5 favorite "supermodels" are. I garuantee that Heidi's (and Tyra's) name would come up 90% of the time.

In the case of Claudia, for all her high fashion runway sucess, most people here would most likely know her as a Guess model or David Copperfield's girlfriend. Thats it.

 

[Torchb3arer]

^But no one would ever mistakenly call Toni a supermodel. Because no one oustside of the fashion world even knows or cares who she is.

I didn't want to say that Toni is a supermodel, but client-wise Heidi can't mess with usual topmodels like Toni, Edita, Iris or Anna J. Face the facts she has never been a supermodel with super-clients (I'm not talking about VS)

she has had way more ads than that.

^No, this Givenchy story was the only hf campaign she scored.

High fashion doesnt matter that much in terms of making someone a star like it did back in the day. And most of those models would give thier right arm to have a career like Heidi's.

Not every girl's dream is to act as jerk-off material for young pubescent boys. But i get your point, money-wise they would.

In the case of Claudia, for all her high fashion runway sucess, most people here would most likely know her as a Guess model or David Copperfield's girlfriend. Thats it.

Hmmm, she's popular for being Karl Lagerfeld's muse, i guess Miss Klum would die for Claudia's reputation.
The major point is, that models like Claudia don't have to act like a couple of crazed little children or to undress in order to get attention

In those terms i get Karl's point. Heidi volunteers that she has never been a supermodel.

 

[nanker_phledge]

Okay, this is getting crazy.But realistically, even beyond high fashion standards.This is my point of view :

Claudia : high fashion brands (possibly one of the highest numbers of covers, so even passing in front of a newsstand, you couldn't escape her for something like ten years.I'm not even citing her being the face of MANY brands from Versace to Chanel) + l'Oréal + many adverts.My point is this : even people who don't know much fashion couldn't possibly have been/can't be oblivious to the fact she's been one of the few names that made supermodels a phenomenom (as in a universal one, it's common knowledge for ffs).You'll never make me swallow that one.

Personally, I've heard of Heidi Klum because of VS and SI, her tv show and Seal.You can't possibly say that it makes her recognisable to every one on the planet or that she marks the history of fashion or even celebrity the way Claudia has.I know she has done some stuff with high fashion brands and that she's been successful as a model.But to me, Heidi is as famous as someone like Tyra Banks.The difference between the twos is that Claudia has been a part of a phenomenom and that her longevity of career (she's been a supermodel (not just a topmodel) for something like ten years) makes her more famous.

 

[Iloveyoutoo]

I guess it depends on your prospective. Obviously around here the view is skewed towards high fashion. In the mainstream though, most people could care less who was on what runway or who got what campaign. The fashion world is very insular, and much more important to itsself and its followers than the rest of the world.

Yes, Claudia has a more "prestigeuous" resume (in the fashion world). But Heidi is definitely more famous, a much bigger celebrity.

I seriously doubt that Heidi would "die" for Claudia's reputation sense she has a pretty great one where it really matters: the real world, not just the fashion world. But I doubt that either one of them would want to trade careers anyway. They both have incredible achievements.


And Karl is an ***.

 

[Iloveyoutoo]

Also I dont mean to say that Heidi is a supermodel, by the correct definition. Or to take away what Claudia means to the fashion industry.

Like I said I doubt any of this matters to either one of them anyway.

 

[nanker_phledge]

I guess it depends on your prospective. Obviously around here the view is skewed towards high fashion. In the mainstream though, most people could care less who was on what runway or who got what campaign.

Yes, Claudia has a more "prestigeuous" resume (in the fashion world). But Heidi is definitely more famous, a much bigger celebrity.

I seriously doubt that Heidi would "die" for Claudia's reputation sense she has a pretty great one where it really matters: the real world, not just the fashion world. But I doubt that either one of them would want to trade careers anyway. They both have incredible achievements.


And Karl is an ***.

It's not just who went on which runway, which cover, it's more a question of exposure.You couldn't possibly escape someone like Claudia for a long time, high fashion or not, in the supermakets (for beauty products),in the newsstands, on the billboards, on tv adverts (from Citroen to l'oréal to pepsi).Not only has she done it for years but she's been one of the firsts to be treated that way.So no, it's not just constricted to the fashion world, she's part of a phenomenom because...it becomes universal and marks history.

I'm not dissing Heidi, she has a successful carreer to be proud of,but their levels of celebrity aren't comparable, that's all.

I've just asked the question to a few people on another forum, people agreed with me.

 

[designerleather]

Is Heidi more famous?

If you polled and asked people to name the greatest models in the world, I am willing to bet that not only does Claudia's name come up more, it will come up higher as well.

Cindy probably even higher than Claudia as well.

Why does it matter? Karl was talking about the modeling world, not the entertainment world. More of Heidi's fame over the last 5 years has been as a TV host

 

[Torchb3arer]

Yup, I've never heard of Heidi Klum and a great number of people didn't know her before her time in Germany's next Topmodel in Germany/Austria. It's kind of funny that more people in US like her than in her home country^.

 

[tgeezyband]

It's not just who went on which runway, which cover, it's more a question of exposure.You couldn't possibly escape someone like Claudia for a long time, high fashion or not, in the supermakets (for beauty products),in the newsstands, on the billboards, on tv adverts (from Citroen to l'oréal to pepsi).Not only has she done it for years but she's been one of the firsts to be treated that way.So no, it's not just constricted to the fashion world, she's part of a phenomenom because...it becomes universal and marks history.

I'm not dissing Heidi, she has a successful carreer to be proud of,but their levels of celebrity aren't comparable, that's all.

I've just asked the question to a few people on another forum, people agreed with me.

Well to be honest I never heard of Claudia Schiffer until this thread, I'm only 19 though, the only reasons I have heard of Heidi Klum were because of VS or SI type stuff, and here in America at least, most people do not go to the store to look at who is the face of the make up brand and think to themselves who is that, or I want to find out who that is.

Now I am more into the models of now, I wasn't alive in that "supermodel era," but even the models who are ranked in the top by models.com have no appeal to "mainstream" audience, people in the mainstream are far more concerned about Paris Hilton or Megan Fox, or they don't really know what great looks are, or how these models can look so good with no make up, because I go onto different forums and people make topics like "who is the most attractive woman?" I'll put a picture of a model, who on this forum will get many good comments about, but on those other forums, I'll get called g*y or am I screwed up in the head or something.

It is like different worlds between people who are interested in the fashion world, or people who just go about their lives but they know things like average actors/musicians, but don't even know who top models are.

 

[Iloveyoutoo]

I'm not dissing Heidi, she has a successful carreer to be proud of,but their levels of celebrity aren't comparable, that's all.

I think their levels of celebrity are completely comparable actually. Just like you would have had to be living under a rock not to know who Claudia was in the 90s, you would have to be living under a rock not to know who Heidi is for the past ten years.

I think that the amount of exposure that Heidi gets is the same as any other top A-list celebrity we have today. You can't turn on the tv, go to grocery store, look at a billboard etc without seeing or hearing about her at least once a week. I mean she has endorsed so many things, she shows up at like every awards show, pops up as "herself" in tons of movies... one could say she is overexposed right now. I saw her on Seasame Street the other day for crying out loud.

So yes, Claudia is very famous, and Im sure a lot of people remember her, a lot of that has faded over the years. Heidi is definitely a bigger celebrity right now.

I mean, the fact that people ask Karl about her in interviews so much that he gets pissed off is a pretty big indication of how big Heidi has become.