Peter Do - Designer, Creative Director of Helmut Lang

[tourbillions]

what in the alyx 10111021 is this?? he can hangout with ancora and mcqueen guy.

 

[StylishCynic]

Are they even selling ? Give 👏🏻me👏🏻the👏🏻numbers

SS24 was discounted 60% plus an extra 25% off for a few weeks. At those prices, it wasn't much higher than Zara or COS, and they finally started selling out of sizes.

Managed to grab a seatbelt suit for under $400 all-in.

 

[rowjellies]

Are they even selling ? Give 👏🏻me👏🏻the👏🏻numbers

They have a mind boggling number of SKUs on sale. It feels like the entire damn collection.

But idk, they are in the contemporary bracket and run by the owners of Uniqlo and Theory, so maybe it’s part of their model 🤷‍♀️

 

[tricotineacetat]

All these magazine-curator and fashion film nonsense are such premium cringe.

Phoebe Philo is essentially the lost heiress to Helmut Lang— minus Helmut’s untouchable menswear (…and looking at the hilariously ill custom suit she plopped on Edward, it’s unlikely she’s capable of menswear of Helmut's vision…).

All these people that have come and will be gone soon, have done absolutely nothing in progressing Helmut’s aesthetic and sensibility. None of them get Helmut: They’ve all just been playing Frankenstein and cobbling his designs into some Frankenstein’s Monster of dated gruesomeness. Peter’s been the latest incompetent Dr.Frankenstein. And the worst, frankly. It all looks and feels like cheap knockoffs cutting and pasting Helmut’s signatures into a sloppy whole. He’s a solid enough tailor that was cobbling Yohji/Ann D/Tisci into a decent sportswear whole, that initially did good enough for his own brand; it’s only when he’s somewhat convinced that he’s the new great American hope with his forced silhouette of big shoulders, harem pants, platform boots and strings dangling everywhere that he started to lose the plot. Just do your job of producing decent Yohji/Ann D/Tisci-lite fashions that are solidly constructed, instead of attempting to create aaaaaahhhhhhhhhrt when you’re not an artist and the Helmut Lang label was never art.

The only way for this brand to stand a chance will be if a talent takes it in a new direction with the spirit of OG Helmut at its core. …Like what Phoebe’s doing.

As a Helmut devotee of the old days, who enjoys his legacy up until today, not only for the fashion itself, but also the 'Gesamtkunstwerk' that played just as much a vital part to what the brand was all about (store design, type of photography, music, art direction and art collaborations), I never, ever, at any given point considered Phoebe Philo to be the natural heiress of Helmut Lang.

Much like Ann Demeulemeester, Martin Margiela or Jil Sander, it’s impossible just to take bits and pieces from their design vocabulary (often times, the most obvious ones), and re-arrange them in hopes to make them relevant for today. It’s an integral part as to why all of these names struggle to move on after the departure of their namesakes. The succession problem haunts all of these beautiful houses, as they are embedded with a culture around them that the creator as well as their audience understand, breathe and live - Therefor removing that part leaves you with a clichée that falls flat, leaving you with an often times unconvincing piece of clothing whose relevance for today begs to be questioned.

I cherish the memory of the brief period of Helmut’s Paris return as every other person, those were the very first shows and showrooms I attended, the first industry connections I made as a young person starting out in the industry. But when I see people citing for the 1000th time the same ‘mummy-bandages’ jeans from SS'04 or the aviator leggings from FW'03, I’m not sure it’s for a better purpose than wanting to revise a moment in fashion history rather than doing the difficult thought process of taking the core Helmut’s dressing proposal and evolving it.

Of course Phoebe Philo neither came up with blatant copies of either one of these designs, nor was she ever tasked with designing for Helmut Lang. I am largely convinced that the success of her Celine was due to the fact it never was derivative of either Helmut or Jil or Martin to THAT obvious degree. In hindsight, and looking at the direction of her own brand, I think we can say clearly that her woman is a different person than Helmut’s. She likes her eccentric shoes, she is quite a bit more playful with challenging proportions in clothes. She generally likes the “fashion” aspect of fashion, which I’m not exactly sure Helmut’s customer ever really cared much for.

This brings me to an important part of Helmut’s dressing proposal and it’s the one of continuity. The beauty of Helmut Lang was that the base of his proposal stayed consistant and non-seasonal. There was the tailoring, the shirting, the jeans. The fit and the fabrication of those remained very much untouched throughout the years, those pieces were anti-fashion as could be. You knew it was Helmut by putting it on. Very few designers after Helmut got that and managed to come up with such a formulaic system of their own. The two designers who did were Rick Owens and Hedi Slimane - Both of which established a similarly devoted fanbase, but also both of which understood the importance to protect the building blocks of their wardrobe proposals. Their body-of-work also seamlessly extended that of their fashion, in almost stoic repetition of their codes, over decades of produced work. It’s a rare thing to find in any designer and I don’t always have to like the outcome, but I appreciate the integrity of their work as a whole.

 

[tricotineacetat]

One thing I would like to add to my very long post is that “being part of the fashion conversation” is not what the first and foremost aim at a brand like Helmut Lang should be about, if it were to remain true to it’s founder's values.

Although the fashion press loved Helmut and his style very much aligned for a long time with what was 'in fashion', it’s important to recognize his loyal fanbase was never one to jump on something completely different the moment fashion moved elsewhere. The wildly popular shoes and accessories line Helmut Lang developed with Prada did not sustain the losses it made elsewhere, eventually leading Patrizio Bertelli to fall out with Helmut in a similar way as with Jil Sander.

The beauty of Helmut Lang remains that his staples (such as the moleskin Chesterfield coat) would still outshine what maybe somebody like Daniel Lee based his versions on during his Bottega days.

 

[Norden]

You summed up so nicely and precisely what’s going on.

For exactly those reasons I don’t think this brand, Margiela or Ann would work. Their worlds were so specific and connected to a real humanity. Their brands without the person is just a flat image of things that have been.

 

[Beun]

One thing I would like to add to my very long post is that “being part of the fashion conversation” is not what the first and foremost aim at a brand like Helmut Lang should be about, if it were to remain true to it’s founder's values.

Although the fashion press loved Helmut and his style very much aligned for a long time with what was 'in fashion', it’s important to recognize his loyal fanbase was never one to jump on something completely different the moment fashion moved elsewhere. The wildly popular shoes and accessories line Helmut Lang developed with Prada did not sustain the losses it made elsewhere, eventually leading Patrizio Bertelli to fall out with Helmut in a similar way as with Jil Sander.

The beauty of Helmut Lang remains that his staples (such as the moleskin Chesterfield coat) would still outshine what maybe somebody like Daniel Lee based his versions on during his Bottega days.

Perfectly summed up! I think that there is still an audience for such brands who advocate for a total approach, a minimal aesthetic and links to the cultural world, but don't really see who could actually fill this role.

 

[lookatme]

Perfectly summed up! I think that there is still an audience for such brands who advocate for a total approach, a minimal aesthetic and links to the cultural world, but don't really see who could actually fill this role.

It cannot be done by this generation of creatives raised on Tumblr and Instagram. It’s not entirely their fault, but they’re not capable of understanding any of their references beyond the surface appeal. Everything is a reblog or repost. Their personalities and “tastes” are their Instagram grid. This is the reason there’s never any richness to their work…there is no foundation - it’s all just “the look.”

Gone are the days of creatives carving out their own identities and idiosyncrasies through real-time trial and error.

It’s no longer about what you’re like, instead it’s now all about what you like.

Oh well.

 

[LadyJunon]

Perfectly summed up! I think that there is still an audience for such brands who advocate for a total approach, a minimal aesthetic and links to the cultural world, but don't really see who could actually fill this role.

It cannot be done by this generation of creatives raised on Tumblr and Instagram. It’s not entirely their fault, but they’re not capable of understanding any of their references beyond the surface appeal. Everything is a reblog or repost. Their personalities and “tastes” are their Instagram grid. This is the reason there’s never any richness to their work…there is no foundation - it’s all just “the look.”

I think that there's always a audience for the practical, but sensual minimalism of designers like Helmut Lang and Jil Sander (or even early TF Gucci), but this really isn't the generation to deliver it. The magic of 90s minimalism is real, serious clothes that being completely void of warmth or humour. The fact that a lot of designers today depend heavily on social media removes the reality and subtlety element that 90s fashion championed.

 

[Phuel]

As a Helmut devotee of the old days, who enjoys his legacy up until today, not only for the fashion itself, but also the 'Gesamtkunstwerk' that played just as much a vital part to what the brand was all about (store design, type of photography, music, art direction and art collaborations), I never, ever, at any given point considered Phoebe Philo to be the natural heiress of Helmut Lang.

Much like Ann Demeulemeester, Martin Margiela or Jil Sander, it’s impossible just to take bits and pieces from their design vocabulary (often times, the most obvious ones), and re-arrange them in hopes to make them relevant for today. It’s an integral part as to why all of these names struggle to move on after the departure of their namesakes. The succession problem haunts all of these beautiful houses, as they are embedded with a culture around them that the creator as well as their audience understand, breathe and live - Therefor removing that part leaves you with a clichée that falls flat, leaving you with an often times unconvincing piece of clothing whose relevance for today begs to be questioned.

I cherish the memory of the brief period of Helmut’s Paris return as every other person, those were the very first shows and showrooms I attended, the first industry connections I made as a young person starting out in the industry. But when I see people citing for the 1000th time the same ‘mummy-bandages’ jeans from SS'04 or the aviator leggings from FW'03, I’m not sure it’s for a better purpose than wanting to revise a moment in fashion history rather than doing the difficult thought process of taking the core Helmut’s dressing proposal and evolving it.

Of course Phoebe Philo neither came up with blatant copies of either one of these designs, nor was she ever tasked with designing for Helmut Lang. I am largely convinced that the success of her Celine was due to the fact it never was derivative of either Helmut or Jil or Martin to THAT obvious degree. In hindsight, and looking at the direction of her own brand, I think we can say clearly that her woman is a different person than Helmut’s. She likes her eccentric shoes, she is quite a bit more playful with challenging proportions in clothes. She generally likes the “fashion” aspect of fashion, which I’m not exactly sure Helmut’s customer ever really cared much for.

This brings me to an important part of Helmut’s dressing proposal and it’s the one of continuity. The beauty of Helmut Lang was that the base of his proposal stayed consistant and non-seasonal. There was the tailoring, the shirting, the jeans. The fit and the fabrication of those remained very much untouched throughout the years, those pieces were anti-fashion as could be. You knew it was Helmut by putting it on. Very few designers after Helmut got that and managed to come up with such a formulaic system of their own. The two designers who did were Rick Owens and Hedi Slimane - Both of which established a similarly devoted fanbase, but also both of which understood the importance to protect the building blocks of their wardrobe proposals. Their body-of-work also seamlessly extended that of their fashion, in almost stoic repetition of their codes, over decades of produced work. It’s a rare thing to find in any designer and I don’t always have to like the outcome, but I appreciate the integrity of their work as a whole.

Phoebe’s Celine— at itsbest anyway, was on the same wavelength as Helmut, even if she never outright copy/tribute/homage him in any way. She’s one of the few designers who could work his influence into her own design, sensibility and aesthetic, and make it all hers. I don’t know if she ever presented a moleskin Chesterfield in any of her collections, and she was probably smart enough to never do so, but she was more Helmut than those that copy his signatures wholesale and Frankenstein it into a slop.

Never mind the revolving door of Helmut cosplayers that deformed the brand into the further parody with every new successor, but the likes of Raf’s Calvin Klein and Matthieu Blazey’s/Daniel Lee's Bottega that blatantly ripped off Helmut’s signatures wholesale, never were worthy of being his successor. As soon as these people are trapped within the confines that the moleskin Chesterfield, bondage details and asymmetric sleeves and skirt hems equate (some tribute to) Helmut Lang, then they’ll surely churn out absolutely pointless wears under his brand. Because surely Helmut would have evolved from these tropes had he continued designing in 2024. (And I’m glad he, along with Tom, Dries, and Ann have bowed out, since going by their final offerings, they had nothing to offer anymore.)

If this corporation insists on continuing on with this label— and maybe if they’re serious about the slightest chance to some relevance and profitability, then they need to appeal to the new generation of guys that discovered and covet Helmut Lang through stars like Kanye and Travis Scott, then try their hardest to snatch Jerry Lorenzo to head this brand. That’s the new customer base now that will pay for the brand.

 

[tricotineacetat]

Phoebe’s Celine— at itsbest anyway, was on the same wavelength as Helmut, even if she never outright copy/tribute/homage him in any way. She’s one of the few designers who could work his influence into her own design, sensibility and aesthetic, and make it all hers. I don’t know if she ever presented a moleskin Chesterfield in any of her collections, and she was probably smart enough to never do so, but she was more Helmut than those that copy his signatures wholesale and Frankenstein it into a slop.

Never mind the revolving door of Helmut cosplayers that deformed the brand into the further parody with every new successor, but the likes of Raf’s Calvin Klein and Matthieu Blazey’s/Daniel Lee's Bottega that blatantly ripped off Helmut’s signatures wholesale, never were worthy of being his successor. As soon as these people are trapped within the confines that the moleskin Chesterfield, bondage details and asymmetric sleeves and skirt hems equate (some tribute to) Helmut Lang, then they’ll surely churn out absolutely pointless wears under his brand. Because surely Helmut would have evolved from these tropes had he continued designing in 2024. (And I’m glad he, along with Tom, Dries, and Ann have bowed out, since going by their final offerings, they had nothing to offer anymore.)

If this corporation insists on continuing on with this label— and maybe if they’re serious about the slightest chance to some relevance and profitability, then they need to appeal to the new generation of guys that discovered and covet Helmut Lang through stars like Kanye and Travis Scott, then try their hardest to snatch Jerry Lorenzo to head this brand. That’s the new customer base now that will pay for the brand.

No offense to Phoebe’s playfulness with silhouettes and the valid eclecticism of her Celine interior concept, but to me, that has little to do with Helmut Lang, despite the majority of her design sharing a sense of purity with Helmut Lang. It’s as if to imagine a Rick Owens devotee with rustic wood panelled kitchen fronts - It’s a fully formed aesthetic proposition and Richard Gluckman’s architecture as well as Louise Bourgeois’ and Jenny Holzer’s art belonged just as much into it as did Peter Kruder’s abstract electronic sound design.

I’d like to believe Helmut Lang and his customers are in the most positive way a bit stoic in their taste, not so much concerned by what silhouettes are currently in fashion and in certain ways, never fundamentally changing their style in 20 or even 30 years. They will stick to a blazer or an overcoat with a slim lapel and a close to the body cut, as well as a flat front tailored trouser - All this sloppy oversize tailoring that’s currently trendy would be a big no-no at Helmut!

I would like to underline the fact that Helmut Lang is very much an anti-fashion brand, much in the way as Ann Demeulemeester or Yohji Yamamoto are who were never interested in trends or concerned to be part of the general fashion conversation - Having worked with all these brands and their customers for decades, I know they don’t care much about it and it’s with the same ignorance that a designer like Hedi Slimane (whose most iconic designs can be seen as the logical evolution after Helmut Lang) keeps coming back to the same proposals again and again.

Again, nothing wrong with Phoebe, it’s undisputed she did something with great resonance but Helmut Lang’s aesthetic language and culture is very much rooted in a specific time and space that other designers maybe pluck from at will but were never fully committed to like Helmut!

 

[tricotineacetat]

There are a few people I could think of as suitable candidates for Helmut - Melanie Ward being the most obvious, as she was already the de-facto right hand of Helmut’s during the later part of his career. Put Alexa Adams (formerly the head of design for Helmut Lang’s womenswear as well as one half of the now discontinued NYC brand, Ohne Titel) in her old position and maybe a designer like Siki Im as menswear designer in this place. All three of them worked together briefly at Lagerfeld’s NYC studio during his brief association with Hilfiger.

Nicolas Andreas Taralis would however be my first pick. He’s studied under Lang and his extensive past work with his own brand, as well as Dior Homme and Cerruti show that he really breathes the same culture as Helmut. He would bring that severity and urbanism with just the right touch of grit - The interiors I posted in the Sabato de Sarno thread could be Helmut interiors in 2024.

Naoki Takizawa briefly designed Helmut Lang after the Colovoses' - His much more sober practicality was a nod in the right direction - Italo Zuccelli, Paul Surridge or Kostas Murkudis (all storied menswear designers without a job) could deliver that, with just the right amount of fashion.

 

[lookatme]

I think the problem with Helmut Lang, the brand, and all the revival attempts, is that it is so tied to a time and place that doesn’t really exist anymore. Helmut Lang is so much about pre-smartphone NYC. It’s that specific. That’s not to say his actual fashion design work isn’t evergreen, classic and timeless - it clearly is, but as a brand, it isn’t translating.

Now, one could argue - what does Dior or Chanel or Balenciaga or any of these other stories houses have that would make them relevant now with new creative directors? I would say these other houses and brands seem to mean something a bit more abstract and monumental beyond their original time, place creator of origin.

Helmut Lang doesn’t have that same bigness.

 

[Phuel]

Fair enough @tricotineacetat. I’m not the least privy to Helmut's design process; he just never came off as precious about his fashion as some others may have been; which is likely one of the reasons why I was instantly attracted to his design sensibility, not because it was a declaration of “anti-fashion" (of which itself is hilarious to those taht bought into this since his was the hottest label nd most influential fashion direction of its time-- but well, fashion people LOL). Or, at least he never gave the impression that his fashions were as important as some designers tend to believe theirs were/are. There’s always a lightness of being, a genuine casual cool, an effortless attitude that was never mired by overwrought concepts and ideas. And that’s a similar attitude I got from the best of Phoebe’s offering.

OG Helmut and all his effortless, sly, cool “anti-fashion” attitude the brand created is long long long gone. Like @lookatme mentioned, Helmut’s was a creation of its time, and that time has long passed, and more genuine words couldn’t be expressed so casually and also so unfortunately. Being older now, I can appreciate Helmut’s and the era he reigned in as a past memory. And having grown to loathe nostalgia, never seeing Helmut’s revised has been accepted long ago. All I want from any designer these days, more than anything, is a masterclass of tailoring and dressmaking, with an understanding and showcase of how all these elements will elevate the human form to its best, free of the insufferable burden of intellectualism and high concepts (because waring OG Helmut doesn’t instantly grant the wearer coolness nor a higher sense of style :cough:Raf Simons:cough:…) I’ll bring the cool, the attitude, the flair— I don’t need a brand for that.

(Not a fan of Phoebe BTW)

 

[rowjellies]

I think the ideal operator for Helmut Lang is OTB Group. It can reunite again with former Prada Group sister brand Jil Sander.

 

[PDFSD]

sell the name back to helmut for a symbolic 1 dollar, and let him decide if to restore the brand or not or end with him but corporate greed is too big

 

[tricotineacetat]

Fair enough @tricotineacetat. I’m not the least privy to Helmut's design process; he just never came off as precious about his fashion as some others may have been; which is likely one of the reasons why I was instantly attracted to his design sensibility, not because it was a declaration of “anti-fashion" (of which itself is hilarious to those taht bought into this since his was the hottest label nd most influential fashion direction of its time-- but well, fashion people LOL). Or, at least he never gave the impression that his fashions were as important as some designers tend to believe theirs were/are. There’s always a lightness of being, a genuine casual cool, an effortless attitude that was never mired by overwrought concepts and ideas. And that’s a similar attitude I got from the best of Phoebe’s offering.

OG Helmut and all his effortless, sly, cool “anti-fashion” attitude the brand created is long long long gone. Like @lookatme mentioned, Helmut’s was a creation of its time, and that time has long passed, and more genuine words couldn’t be expressed so casually and also so unfortunately. Being older now, I can appreciate Helmut’s and the era he reigned in as a past memory. And having grown to loathe nostalgia, never seeing Helmut’s revised has been accepted long ago. All I want from any designer these days, more than anything, is a masterclass of tailoring and dressmaking, with an understanding and showcase of how all these elements will elevate the human form to its best, free of the insufferable burden of intellectualism and high concepts (because waring OG Helmut doesn’t instantly grant the wearer coolness nor a higher sense of style :cough:Raf Simons:cough:…) I’ll bring the cool, the attitude, the flair— I don’t need a brand for that.

(Not a fan of Phoebe BTW)

What I was trying to say by the term of anti-fashion is that the fashion within the Helmut Lang universe were perfectly fine not to change much in decades. You could get away today wearing a deadstock Helmut lang from 25 years ago and those clothes would still look great as they are. I think that quality is something his fans gravitated towards much in the way as they do with Yohji, with Margiela and Ann. I’m sure we all know a few more of such creators, who have left behind a design that transcends trends. To me, that is the ultimate achievement and a reason I don’t bother how seemingly endless Hedi Slimane keeps repeating himself or the reason you don’t seemingly get much ‘new’ from Yohji anymore. I will happily keep on wearing my Dior Homme that is now more than 20 years old despite the fact people may think ‘it’s time has passed’ - I will yet have to see something happening in fashion right now that looks and feels better, similar to how I won’t depart on my last remaining archival Helmut Lang that had not deteriorated.

I get that, fashion always demands for the new as that is the most obvious driver of more consumption, from magazines to perfumes and clothing. That’s why the habitual overhaul of a fashion label with each new creative director has become the ever norm, with even shorter and shorter cycles with each decade.

All that makes it harder for designers to create a long, cohesive body of work, as most of those active today do not happen to be the founders of their own maisons but stylists for luxury conglomerates. As such, the integrity of their authorship is largely compromised, as it’s no longer possible to be a niche fashion brand much in the way as it was in the 90ies and early 2000s.

 

[tricotineacetat]

All I am looking for in the designers I am interested in is a commitment to creating timelessly beautiful products that fit within a certain niche of taste, whose radically reduced-to-it’s essence design we don’t need to debate as coming from a place of contrived, cold intellectuality.

But then I look at the many people considering Pieter Mulier’s apartment as a dreadful and sad-looking space and Hedi’s architecture to be dated and I’m really not thinking those people would even be able to understand where Helmut was coming from, lol

 

[Lola701]

As a Helmut devotee of the old days, who enjoys his legacy up until today, not only for the fashion itself, but also the 'Gesamtkunstwerk' that played just as much a vital part to what the brand was all about (store design, type of photography, music, art direction and art collaborations), I never, ever, at any given point considered Phoebe Philo to be the natural heiress of Helmut Lang.

Much like Ann Demeulemeester, Martin Margiela or Jil Sander, it’s impossible just to take bits and pieces from their design vocabulary (often times, the most obvious ones), and re-arrange them in hopes to make them relevant for today. It’s an integral part as to why all of these names struggle to move on after the departure of their namesakes. The succession problem haunts all of these beautiful houses, as they are embedded with a culture around them that the creator as well as their audience understand, breathe and live - Therefor removing that part leaves you with a clichée that falls flat, leaving you with an often times unconvincing piece of clothing whose relevance for today begs to be questioned.

I cherish the memory of the brief period of Helmut’s Paris return as every other person, those were the very first shows and showrooms I attended, the first industry connections I made as a young person starting out in the industry. But when I see people citing for the 1000th time the same ‘mummy-bandages’ jeans from SS'04 or the aviator leggings from FW'03, I’m not sure it’s for a better purpose than wanting to revise a moment in fashion history rather than doing the difficult thought process of taking the core Helmut’s dressing proposal and evolving it.

Of course Phoebe Philo neither came up with blatant copies of either one of these designs, nor was she ever tasked with designing for Helmut Lang. I am largely convinced that the success of her Celine was due to the fact it never was derivative of either Helmut or Jil or Martin to THAT obvious degree. In hindsight, and looking at the direction of her own brand, I think we can say clearly that her woman is a different person than Helmut’s. She likes her eccentric shoes, she is quite a bit more playful with challenging proportions in clothes. She generally likes the “fashion” aspect of fashion, which I’m not exactly sure Helmut’s customer ever really cared much for.

This brings me to an important part of Helmut’s dressing proposal and it’s the one of continuity. The beauty of Helmut Lang was that the base of his proposal stayed consistant and non-seasonal. There was the tailoring, the shirting, the jeans. The fit and the fabrication of those remained very much untouched throughout the years, those pieces were anti-fashion as could be. You knew it was Helmut by putting it on. Very few designers after Helmut got that and managed to come up with such a formulaic system of their own. The two designers who did were Rick Owens and Hedi Slimane - Both of which established a similarly devoted fanbase, but also both of which understood the importance to protect the building blocks of their wardrobe proposals. Their body-of-work also seamlessly extended that of their fashion, in almost stoic repetition of their codes, over decades of produced work. It’s a rare thing to find in any designer and I don’t always have to like the outcome, but I appreciate the integrity of their work as a whole.

I agree 100% with what you said.
I would also add that for me too, Phoebe’s Celine and Helmut’s work never shared anything more in common beyond some obvious copies that Phoebe did and probably the type of women they dressed.
I have seen more direct Helmut Lang references from Riccardo Tisci and Raf Simons (his Calvin Klein was just a raid of Helmut Lang’s repertoire). Balenciaga by NG in the early days was in the same world as Helmut Lang. I think for a generation of designers, Helmut Lang represented modernity. That’s it.

But for me, the person whom work has been the most influenced by Helmut Lang is probably Hedi Slimane. It’s impossible to look at Dior Homme and Helmut Lang and not see the parallels.

When Helmut came back to Paris, I think it didn’t have the same impact because at that time, Balenciaga and Dior Homme were almost his children and the cultural scenes they attracted felt closer to the Zeitgeist than his.
And for me, it was just that. Because despite all the errors made by Prada, I think he still got things to say.
His Parisian shows in the 2000’s explored different territories.

The same way that for me, it’s so weird to have those people who are claiming their lineage with Margiela. Margiela was ever changing.
Margiela from 2007 is different from Margiela from 2006. Margiela from Hermes was different from him at his own house.

I think the problem with Helmut Lang, the brand, and all the revival attempts, is that it is so tied to a time and place that doesn’t really exist anymore. Helmut Lang is so much about pre-smartphone NYC. It’s that specific. That’s not to say his actual fashion design work isn’t evergreen, classic and timeless - it clearly is, but as a brand, it isn’t translating.

Now, one could argue - what does Dior or Chanel or Balenciaga or any of these other stories houses have that would make them relevant now with new creative directors? I would say these other houses and brands seem to mean something a bit more abstract and monumental beyond their original time, place creator of origin.

Helmut Lang doesn’t have that same bigness.

Maybe the issue with Helmut Lang, since he left, has been the hold-up made by NYC, fueled by that nostalgia of the 90’s, a whole cultural aspect of what is essentially European style that became international and that has aesthetic ethos that are timeless.

Because Helmut Lang, beyond the various rebranding has mostly been about mediocre attempts to recreate the 90’s. It’s ok if NYC is not as cool as it used to be…

When I saw RAF’s CK which was juste Helmut Lang, it was a proof that the problem wasn’t quite on quote the pieces but clearly the lack of people with a real understanding of his language at the helm. That’s all.
And RAF’s Calvin wasn’t an attempt to recreate the 90’s at all…but more of a post-modern interpretation of that era.

I’ve never believed that Peter Do was the guy some industry people tried to make him be. Working at Celine under Phoebe doesn’t mean anything at all.
I didn’t expect anything and clearly they delivered in that aspect.

 

[Phuel]

^^^ Hedi does come to mind as being influenced by Helmut. However, I always saw early-2000 Gaultier men's in Hedi’s foundation and as a greater influence: Sharply, impeccably tailored and classic bespoke at its roots; an almost idiosyncratic marriage of traditional, proper with the more archaic sensibility both in design and color-palette; the most luxurious, even couture-y approach to texture and fabric; and an masterclass in dramatic silhouette that’s extremely commercial as separates; and both are very, eternally French. The distinction was that Gaultier ’s tend to be always more fantastical in presentation, while HEcdi’s Dior Homme was very much the zeitgeist of how a certain generation of guys were dressing and identifying with: Skaters, indie bands, junior creatives. WIth a collection like “Luster”, it was very early-2000 Gaultier. And Riccardo’s men's was straightup, wholesale Gaultier men’s— down to the casting of classically gorgeous multiracial men. He wasn’t even hiding it.

@tricotineacetat: I completely understand when you say “anti-fashion” in reference to Helmut. However, like Margiela the brand, Helmut Lang the brand became too fashionable in its prime, and any anti-establishment and anti-system resonance just cannot be reclaimed now for the brand— nor even by Helmut when he was designing. And once any designer takes part in, and any brand is a part of the fashion industry, then it in essence, is— fashion. Viv isn’t some punk rock dame; Margiela isn’t Garbo; Yohji isn’t some noble poet working atop his mountaintop; Helmut isn’t some rebel... it’s all as laughable as Demna believing he’s some renegade maverick when he’s as desperate to be the mostest popularist girl in fashion as many, if not most, working in the industry.

Carine once said that Helmut was never “richer” in his design, never “overdressed” in his aesthetic, and also that his was accessible to her, her daughter, and her mother, and maybe that’s the “anti-fashion” that resonated so effortlessly in the Helmut Lang label once upon time. Hedi’s Dior Homme and OG Helmut separates— despite “time having passed” on their total looks, still fit effortlessly into my wardrobe and how I dress. And it’s this ideal that Peter seems to forget, or maybe never understood, and why instead of designing strong, versatile separates that will stand the test of fashion times, he’s all up on the instantly gimmicky designs and tricksy styling. The callbacks are so nauseating.