Racial Diversity In Modeling

[ChristionCouture]

I think it's beside the point that one is a fashion magazine and one is not. My point was that there are magazines who aim at blacks, whites, latino, asians, men, women, young, old, etc. regardless of what the magazine is for.. And I dont think it's correct to expect diversity from one but not from another. Personally I think its okay for them to focus on different groups, and I can also respect the opinion that they should all be banished and instead only completely diverse magazines created, but I dont understand the idea that its okay for some magazines to advertise to a certain group but not others. Anyone is free to create a fashion magazine aimed at african americans and its not vogues fault that there isnt one, so again its beside the point what kind of magazine it is, fashion or not.

Another suggest for segregation? Should Blacks have their own buses and water fountains too? You don't think it's correct to expect diversity? And why not? You don't expect to be treated equally? Is the United States not diverse? We are talking about a major publication, not a private house warming dinner by invite only. This is America, a racially diverse society. Publications should reflect that. Your excuses are weak.

 

[anapaula]

yeah, it's complicated 'cause every country has its history and after all we are talking about fashion! I mean, F-A-S-H-I-O-N, expensive clothes, stylish pictures, we all can survive without that, the fashion world is to have fun, being happy, not to be fighting due to race, IMO




what is important in the fashion world of today is the body, not the race.




you're wrong associating latino with south america.

North America = USA, Canada & Mexico




Wikipedia to the rescue:



I'm a human being

I have to agree with you on the latino thing. I am from Brazil and I don't see myself as a latino either, never did and never will. I live in the US and I will always check Other on forms because I am not Latino since the term is created to segregate and to pretty much say that you are poor and uneducated.

 

[Guessgirl96]

I think you're sad for accepting inequality in the world. This is not only about models and covers as I stated previously. This goes hand in hand with any other industry as well. Are you really telling me that affirmitive action should only be extended in select fields and industries? Should non-whites not be allowed to participate in major league baseball as well? Should we not have extended affirmitve action in that field?

what about basket ball, and maybe even football? To say that most baseball players are white because of racism, is like saying that basket ball is mostly played by african americans because of racism against whites. If baseball teams are forced to include a certain amount of african americans, shouldnt basketball teams be forced to include a certain amount of whites? I dont think it has anything to do with race, but more so with talent and more people of a certain race happen to be more talented at certain sports. This is what I mean about the double standard.

 

[Guessgirl96]

Another suggest for segregation? Should Blacks have their own buses and water fountains too? You don't think it's correct to expect diversity? And why not? You don't expect to be treated equally? Is the United States not diverse? We are talking about a major publication, not a private house warming dinner by invite only. This is America, a racially diverse society. Publications should reflect that. Your excuses are weak.

but if you expect diversity from vogue, why dont you expect diversity from other magazines aiming at certain groups? I dont think its right to expect diversity from one but not the other. I can understand magazines that are aimed at black culture but there are magazines like heart and soul who arent aimed at the culture. In this case its health and well being which has nothing to do with race, but they choose to aim the magazine towards blacks. Same with vogue and fashion.

water fountains and buses have nothing to do with it, no one is saying that african americans cant buy vogue like it used to be with buses. I am complelty against segragation on buses and the like.

 

[Zen]

I have to agree with you on the latino thing. I am from Brazil and I don't see myself as a latino either, never did and never will. I live in the US and I will always check Other on forms because I am not Latino since the term is created to segregate and to pretty much say that you are poor and uneducated.

Well, that just goes to tell you how your mind thinks. Where do you get off saying that the term Latino automatically segregates, and as you put it "poor and uneducated." I know many Latinos and Latinas who are very well educated. Maybe even more so than many whites, asian and blacks who are citizens of this so called great nation of ours called "AMERICA" ......I really can't handle this thread anymore...I'm out of here!!!

 

[eternitygoddess]

what about basket ball, and maybe even football? To say that most baseball players are white because of racism, is like saying that basket ball is mostly played by african americans because of racism against whites. If baseball teams are forced to include a certain amount of african americans, shouldnt basketball teams be forced to include a certain amount of whites? I dont think it has anything to do with race, but more so with talent and more people of a certain race happen to be more talented at certain sports. This is what I mean about the double standard.

Karma.

 

[mellowdrama]

I just wanted to chime in that I'm glad this discussion is taking place with all of our biases showing. It's far better to misunderstand one another and argue than to pretend the problem doesn't exist. I particularly liked the "Vogue's glorification of colonial racism" article linked by ChristionCouture. One of the responses to that article states:

The fact that Vogue rarely features a black model or actress period is also disturbing, but the spread, despite its prettiness, harked back to the days of colonialism(as the title of this post says) and white woman fetishism.

Fashion is all kinds of fetishism, though, isn't it? There's always some odd, ugly imagery or kink inspiring the frockmeisters and photographers. Cinched waists, high heels, extreme ectomorphism. As for the colonial spread, isn't it better to be acting it out on the pages of a fashion magazine--it's so much less terribly literal than actual colonialism. It's a powerful reminder of where we were--where we are-- and forces us to ask where we need to be.

What a powerful image--provocative, infuriating, yes--but isn't it great to be able to recognize that feeling of provocation and act on it or react to it--by writing letters to the editor, starting your own weblog or magazine. It's meant to provoke, make you question your desires, your fears. Then go shopping, y'know?

Now, ideally, Naomi will start that modelling agency in Kenya. Ideally, we will see less homogenized beauty standards. But there's all levels of manipulation involved in what is essentially aspirational advertising. Why do you want you desire, fear what you fear, fear what you desire, etcetera? And why does it make you go shopping and stuff your face? Or deny your face, or deny other's faces? And skins and bodies and beings?

Think a bit about your own fears and prejudices, why do those opposed to Naomi's statement feel threatened by a simple request for more diversity in high fashion magazine covers and editorials? And why do those who agree feel marginalized, exoticized, or that an injustice is being committed?

Think about your own viewpoints and how you get them, is all I'm saying. Because what we say always reveals more about ourselves than what we think we're looking at.

 

[BaroqueRockstar]

I think you're sad for accepting inequality in the world. This is not only about models and covers as I stated previously. This goes hand in hand with any other industry as well. Are you really telling me that affirmitive action should only be extended in select fields and industries? Should non-whites not be allowed to participate in major league baseball as well? Should we not have extended affirmitve action in that field?

i don't believe in affirmative action at all... that's another discussion for another time. i think that in any field people should be hired because of talent, not race.

 

[BaroqueRockstar]

what about basket ball, and maybe even football? To say that most baseball players are white because of racism, is like saying that basket ball is mostly played by african americans because of racism against whites. If baseball teams are forced to include a certain amount of african americans, shouldnt basketball teams be forced to include a certain amount of whites? I dont think it has anything to do with race, but more so with talent and more people of a certain race happen to be more talented at certain sports. This is what I mean about the double standard.

agreed.

 

[BaroqueRockstar]

Once again, this goes even deeper than models on the cover of magazines. Not only are the magazines not representing it's populations' cultural balance , but the publishing and fashion industries aren't representing that either.

Members of the media have an obligation to represent the cultural balance of the population it serves.

that isn't a fashion magazine's job. why is that so hard to understand?

 

[mellowdrama]

Originally Posted by Guessgirl96
what about basket ball, and maybe even football? To say that most baseball players are white because of racism, is like saying that basket ball is mostly played by african americans because of racism against whites. If baseball teams are forced to include a certain amount of african americans, shouldnt basketball teams be forced to include a certain amount of whites? I dont think it has anything to do with race, but more so with talent and more people of a certain race happen to be more talented at certain sports. This is what I mean about the double standard.

^Ah, now you're going to get me arguing whether being beautiful in the modelesque perfection way qualifies as being a talent. I don't want to insult the models, though, it is hard work, but both Larry Bird and Michael Jordan have a bit more that a catwalk to master.

 

[iluvjeisa]

Andre is the Editor at large. I'm not sure why he's not stepping up to the plate. I guess he did his part by getting Jennifer Hudson on the cover. I wonder why her cover was so ugly. None of the other celebrity covers look like that. A lot of ethnic people in the industry don't speak up because they are afraid of being labeled as the "Angry (ethnic) person."

It wasn't ugly at all - it was the best celeb cover this year IMO.

 

[mellowdrama]

that isn't a fashion magazine's job. why is that so hard to understand?

This all seems to be an argument between those who'd call themselves "realists" and those who'd call themselves "idealists". Which translated into the social responsibility of fashion magazines to adhering to it's representative cultural/racial mix would put myself and ChristionCouture and many others here into the "idealist" camp. It's slow and difficult to translate ideals into reality, and it may never be realized or perfected, but the attempt itself is noble and good. It's guaranteed to piss everyone off across the board, and consensus will never be reached, but something is achieved when neither side will budge. Whether it's suffering, enlightenment, or high-fashion, I dunno. But it's fun, ennit?

 

[Guessgirl96]

^Ah, now you're going to get me arguing whether being beautiful in the modelesque perfection way qualifies as being a talent. I don't want to insult the models, though, it is hard work, but both Larry Bird and Michael Jordan have a bit more that a catwalk to master.

I agree with you completely. As far as models go, I dont think its about talent, I just meant to point out the double standard in that case. I still think though that its ok for vogue to choose a certain type of model and therefor audience for reasons I mentioned earlier.

 

[BaroqueRockstar]

^Ah, now you're going to get me arguing whether being beautiful in the modelesque perfection way qualifies as being a talent. I don't want to insult the models, though, it is hard work, but both Larry Bird and Michael Jordan have a bit more that a catwalk to master.

talent probably isn't the right word for it. more like qualification. in sports, you want people who can play. people who are 5'2'' usually aren't going to make it to the NBA. being tall isn't a talent either.

 

[writergal28]

Does anyone find it interesting that Town and Country, a lifestyle magazine that is seen as very WASPy by many has had at least three non-white cover girls (Zhang Ziyi was one of them) in the past couple of years probably more than Vogue, a fashion magazine, which is supposed to appeal to more than just white women?

 

[BaroqueRockstar]

^not at all. the magazine might seem waspy, but town and country has more of an agenda than vogue. they want to sell sell sell, and they have a much broader customer base than vogue.

 

[anapaula]

Well, that just goes to tell you how your mind thinks. Where do you get off saying that the term Latino automatically segregates, and as you put it "poor and uneducated." I know many Latinos and Latinas who are very well educated. Maybe even more so than many whites, asian and blacks who are citizens of this so called great nation of ours called "AMERICA" ......I really can't handle this thread anymore...I'm out of here!!!

I never said they were poor and uneducated but the term is only used in the US. No one in South America refers themselves as a Latino/Latina. The word is a made up word and the same goes for hispanic. It is just a way of labeling everyone from Mexico and down below. Labeling people always have been a way to show superiority and to segregate. In the US they don't even recognize Mexico as being part of North America which is pretty insane.

 

[kimair]

Anyone is free to create a fashion magazine aimed at african americans and its not vogues fault that there isnt one, so again its beside the point what kind of magazine it is, fashion or not.

it's not besides the point...
it IS the point...
why should blacks and other minorities have to create a magazine just for them when fashion is supposed to be universal?
vogue features designers, artists, etc. from all over the world...
so why not models?
no one seems to have an answer to this question...

but if you expect diversity from vogue, why dont you expect diversity from other magazines aiming at certain groups? I dont think its right to expect diversity from one but not the other. I can understand magazines that are aimed at black culture but there are magazines like heart and soul who arent aimed at the culture. In this case its health and well being which has nothing to do with race, but they choose to aim the magazine towards blacks. Same with vogue and fashion.

heart and soul is a magazine with information in it specifically for african-americans, specifically women...
there are certain health issues that blacks have that aren't as prevalent in whites...
it's also not just about health, but money, empowerment, etc.
statistically, black women aren't savers, they tend to be single heads of households, and have certain challenges in terms of the work world...
the issues discussed are not as relevant to someone who is not african-american...

i expect diversity from vogue because:
- it's a fashion magazine, and fashion has no color
- it is the perceived leader in the fashion magazine industry, and they should be leading the trends, not following them and not discriminating against minority models

town and country readers are definitely more "well off"...
consider these demographics (taken directly from their media kits)
town and country's demographics:
- average reader is female, 35+
- 81% are married
- median household income is $125,000
- 16% have a median HHI of $250,000 or more
- 39% have assets of $1.5 million or more
- T&C readers are socially active, influential community leaders, belong to a city club, golf club, and are frequent travelers (7+ airline trips a year)

by comparison, vogue's average reader is 36+ and has a median household income of $65,000...

i think it says alot when a magazine like town & country, which has a much wealthier readership and is perceived to be wasp-y, has more minorites on the cover and featured inside than vogue...

 

[Guessgirl96]

it's not besides the point...
it IS the point...
why should blacks and other minorities have to create a magazine just for them when fashion is supposed to be universal?
vogue features designers, artists, etc. from all over the world...
so why not models?
no one seems to have an answer to this question...

heart and soul is a magazine with information in it specifically for african-americans, specifically women...
there are certain health issues that blacks have that aren't as prevalent in whites...
it's also not just about health, but money, empowerment, etc.
statistically, black women aren't savers, they tend to be single heads of households, and have certain challenges in terms of the work world...
the issues discussed are not as relevant to someone who is not african-american...

i expect diversity from vogue because:
- it's a fashion magazine, and fashion has no color
- it is the perceived leader in the fashion magazine industry, and they should be leading the trends, not following them and not discriminating against minority models

town and country readers are definitely more "well off"...
consider these demographics (taken directly from their media kits)
town and country's demographics:
- average reader is female, 35+
- 81% are married
- median household income is $125,000
- 16% have a median HHI of $250,000 or more
- 39% have assets of $1.5 million or more
- T&C readers are socially active, influential community leaders, belong to a city club, golf club, and are frequent travelers (7+ airline trips a year)

by comparison, vogue's average reader is 36+ and has a median household income of $65,000...

i think it says alot when a magazine like town & country, which has a much wealthier readership and is perceived to be wasp-y, has more minorites on the cover and featured inside than vogue...

I can see where you are coming from but I think we will just have to agree to disagree... I think there are many magazines that are aimed at african americans, but are about universal things just like fashion. I have absolutely no problem with this and think vogue should have the same freedom. here are some examples - black enterprise, honey (fashion and beauty), vibe (entertainment), rides (cars), king (mens lifestyle). As far as heart and soul, I think empowerment, health, money manegement is something lots of women of all races can use. These are all universal topics, but these magazines choose to market to african americans and have mostly blacks on the cover. Would it be ok for vogue to have mostly whites on the cover if they renamed their magazine 'white vogue' kind of like 'black enterprise'? I still fail to see the difference.