Racial Diversity In Modeling

[eternitygoddess]

i've been away for awhile and look at all i've missed...including Joseph finding a way to agree with me (

), softgrey telling him he's wrong about everything (

), fouroclock telling him he's being a little b*tch (

mad karma but for some reason I can't give it), kimairdropping knowledge backed up with stats and eloquently stated, with random pics thrown in by mellowdrama--all bumping up against the brick wall that is the ignorance of Joseph, eternity goddess and Leyla...

God, I love tfs! What's left to be said...?

Carry on...

Someone obviously does not appreciate a diversity of opinion.

 

[misssakura]

I think the intel one is just celebrating how many prominent and amazing athletes are black...but I can see how it comes across.

 

[kimair]

so if black people didn't show interest for that magazine why Vogue should do it if there's no reason to do it.

you misquoted me joseph...
if you're going to comment on my post, then include the entire sentence...
what i said was this:

honey was an attempt to do a fashion magazine for young black women, but it ultimately failed, because it was trying to be vogue, heart & soul and us weekly rolled into one...

and as christion couture said, it really wasn't a fashion magazine...
i don't think it knew what it wanted to be...
in terms of fashion, it never had dior, etc. in it, and no interviews/articles related to fashion...
it wasn't really for me and my age/income/education level or anyone else i know like myself...

and i did bring facts to the discussion...
i don't see what's wrong with that...

so, pls excuse my ignorance everyone, but whoever wants to join me for a grey goose on the rocks NAOMI included you know where i am

i'm in...can we meet at louboutin in paris?
jean avril...we'll have some non-alcoholic drinks just for you...

 

[leyla m.]

thanks kimair!!
thats all i wanted to hear. louboutin paris for a "coupe de champagne". lets go!

 

[Gypsy_Doll]

Maybe most prominent models are white because the high-fashion market is mostly populated by Western designers and Western fashion.

It'd be kind of odd to seen an Arabian girl modeling some Dior Ballgown.

Ummm is wasn't odd when Ujjwala was on the High fashion scene and she's from India.

 

[sepia]

I don't understand some people's point. I'll give an example: I take some women's studies classes because, in the past, feminists have argued the perspective of women has been ignored in the Academy. Are women's studies classes "sexist" because they make up for the gap missing concerning women in scholarship?

 

[Joseph26]

it wasn't really for me and my age/income/education level.

so snob attitude and discriminative for people who bought that magazine, fashion magazines are not only for people with certain age/income/education level, if Vogue and other fashion magazines were only for women who can afford haute couture dresses then only 100 copies would be sold around the world.

I'm not rich, I only like to see fashion magazines 'cause I'm fan of photography and I like some models, not because I have plans to buy a Dior dress, besides I'm not a woman

 

[jssy4eva]

You're completely taking her comments out of context. She's not saying that she dislikes the magazine, she's saying that it wasn't suitable for for where she is at in her life. There are plenty of magazines that market themselves as fashion publications, but when you get down to it, they're really just lifestyle magazines with a few random editorials thrown in. That's not to say that they're bad, they're just not going to suit everyone that might have an interest and fall into the bracket of being able to afford these luxury items.

Do I think that magazines should be forced to include minorities on the covers and inside? No; because it's something that they should be doing without being told. At the end of the day, this isn't about whether or not Hye Park or Jourdan Dunn should get a magazine editorial over Caroline Trentini, it's about the fact that we are in the year 2007 and there are plenty of well educated people who have the means to to indulge in luxury items. They are black, white, Asian, Hispanic, Indian....anything under the sun and they are spending a good chunk of their disposable income on a Chanel bag, Balenciaga jacket or a Prada skirt. Given that they are helping support this industry, isn't it only fair that they be represented in the magazines that cater to people who buy these items. Yes, the $1000 bag you buy certainly doesn't keep the industry afloat, but it helps. You are still contributing something to it and it would be nice to see a representation of that when you flip through that pages of a magazine. That's just my 2 cents.

 

[ChristionCouture]

Ummm is wasn't odd when Ujjwala was on the High fashion scene and she's from India.

That person's comment made me sick to my stomach. This is a result of Vogue's lack of diversity in models. This person is obviously unaware that many Arabs are rich and live luxe lifestyles that include designer clothes. Almost every high fashion designer has stores in that part of the world. I'm done with this thread.

 

[fouroclock]

^ And the person doesn't realize that Arabs are one of the three big 'ethnicities' that are giving out the rusty spare change that the couture houses are feening for.

Joseph, I had a longer post about how after NAFTA, the US and Canada are othering Mexico as Central Americans (which I personally think is bullsh*t, but I'm just pointing out that certain trend of how 'we' see 'you',) and how moot the definition of a human being is.

But to a point about fashion-is-happy - it's not. Fashion is a part of our cultural milieu and the what's going on in the bigger picture. Race and politics will seep in. By omission Vogue is calling 'white clothes for white girls,' thus Vogue is indifferent when it comes to 'dressing black women.'

 

[eternitygoddess]

That person's comment made me sick to my stomach. This is a result of Vogue's lack of diversity in models. This person is obviously unaware that many Arabs are rich and live luxe lifestyles that include designer clothes. Almost every high fashion designer has stores in that part of the world. I'm done with this thread.

Maybe this person should understand what the original poster meant instead of misinterpreting things and getting all worked up.

Everyone argues about the covers but fail to realize that the content inside often features a very diverse cast of women.

 

[Gypsy_Doll]

Originally Posted by Joseph26
btw, why there is a thread called Top African and Black Models? exclusively for pictures of black models, why only black ones?

isn't that discriminative?
Isn't that being racist?
Isn't that segregative?

THAT'S WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND

Hmmm well let's see. Shall we.


There's already a thread dedictated to Native/Aboriginal models. A thread dedicated to Mexican Models. A thread dedicated to Asian models. A thread even dedicated to biracial models. Before you jump to conclusions do some research.

 

[kimair]

so snob attitude and discriminative for people who bought that magazine, fashion magazines are not only for people with certain age/income/education level, if Vogue and other fashion magazines were only for women who can afford haute couture dresses then only 100 copies would be sold around the world.

I'm not rich, I only like to see fashion magazines 'cause I'm fan of photography and I like some models, not because I have plans to buy a Dior dress, besides I'm not a woman

no, not snob attitude...
it wasn't for me...
if you are going to criticize my posts, the least you could do is read them...

honey LIKE I SAID was more street/black culture based, if that makes any sense to you...
it was written like you'd talk on the street...
when i'm reading a fashion magazine, i want articles, features, etc. on fashion as well as great editorials...
basically i want to learn something...
honey wasn't teaching me anything, except who so and so was dating...

to be honest with you, you are not vogue's demographic...
this is taken directly from condenast.com where vogue's demographics are listed:

TOTAL AUDIENCE 10,635,000
Female / Male 88% / 12%
Median Age 36 years
Media Household Income $64,882


and i AM a woman, and i may have plans to buy something in the magazine (though not a couture dress) or at least get inspiration from its pages...
i'm in my mid 30s, have a masters degree, and have been working for over 10 years, part of the time having my own business...
i am not rich by any means, but i make my own money and i buy things that i want to buy...
if i want to buy a $1500 balenciaga bag i will, but i also buy things from h&m, club monaco, and forever 21...

that does not make me a snob...
it makes me an educated, professional woman who expects more...

thanks jssy4eva for your comment...

 

[softgrey]

you know...
you can't blame the editors and publishers for any of this...
you must blame the public who is reading and buying the mags...

they do extensive research before publishing any cover - esp now with the internet...
they send out several cover 'tries' (potential covers) and get feedback from readers before they even publish...sometimes before they even book the models/celebs for the covers...

they really do what the public dictates...
no matter what you all might imagine is going on...
that is the real truth...

it's all very commercial..

if you want creativity and diversity- you have to look to the less mainstream publications who are not so directly responsible to major advertisers...
mags like V and Italian Vogue...
those guys have way more freedom to break 'outside the box'...
so i would ask more about why they aren't doing it so much...

it's pretty obvious why a mainstream mag really can't take so many risks...
they have a lot more at stake...

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ I hear what you're saying ... lots of smaller magazines send out potential covers to a group of their subscribers for comment & tweak accordingly, I've gotten them myself. But that's why I'm so puzzled about the Marie Antoinette failure, if Vogue is doing this really effective market research.

The other thing to consider is, what is the magazine proposing. If it sends out 3 covers, and they're all celebrities, all white or ish, then there is no other choice for people to make. I just wonder what's in the pool they start with, and how imaginative they're trying to be.

Like when they do the "most admired" poll ... I believe they start with a list of names. How are those names arrived at?

 

[writergal28]

^^^

Maybe it's time to educate the public. I mean, it's all about exposure, right? Again, if the ultra-WASPy Town & Country seems to have more non-white people both on its cover and inside (check out wedding announcments. Lots of minority and interracial couples...maybe even more than your typical NYTimes Weddings section) than Vogue. But then again, Vogue is turning into InStyle w/ all those celebs.

 

[Joseph26]

you know...
you can't blame the editors and publishers for any of this...
you must blame the public who is reading and buying the mags...

they do extensive research before publishing any cover - esp now with the internet...
they send out several cover 'tries' (potential covers) and get feedback from readers before they even publish...sometimes before they even book the models/celebs for the covers...

they really do what the public dictates...
no matter what you all might imagine is going on...
that is the real truth...

it's all very commercial..

if you want creativity and diversity- you have to look to the less mainstream publications who are not so directly responsible to major advertisers...
mags like V and Italian Vogue...
those guys have way more freedom to break 'outside the box'...
so i would ask more about why they aren't doing it so much...

it's pretty obvious why a mainstream mag really can't take so many risks...
they have a lot more at stake...

that's what it's all about, that's exactly what some people should understand and honestly it's so easy to do it.

thanks Softgrey and KARMA!

 

[electricladyland]

Someone obviously does not appreciate a diversity of opinion.

i appreciate all opinions, as long as they are in line with my own...

and Leyla, i will excuse your ignorance even though you asked me not to call you ignorant.

BTW, ignorance and stupidity are two very different things...ignorance is tied to a lack of knowledge about something due to a lack of exposure to the complexities of the issue. I referred to your ignorance because I believe that interpretation of race relations that says that we should just not care that different races/ethnicities are not represented is a bit simplistic. That said, I am sure that I am wholly ignorant as to your own background and experiences that would lead you to that opinion. I'm glad that others, who are not taking the short cut out of the discussion as I have done, are giving their opinions as well. This can only enlighten us all.

Joseph, great that you don't take things personally...keeps dialogue going and helps everyone learn something. This thread probably would've died a long time ago without your input, and wouldn't that be a shame?

Back to Vogue, kimair's post about the average audience of Vogue readers (whose average income is $64, 000). So I guess this means that it is not so much appealing to the rich and white, but to a wide variety of middle class American women. I think its interest in keeping the magazine with a rich white image is that Vogue is not just selling fashion. InStyle magazine does that while also seeming to consciously down grade its image as for the masses. Vogue is selling an image, a definition of what fashion is. It is selling a lifestyle...one that is appealing to the average American. I advocate making the image more diverse because the definition of fashion and living well that it portrays is too narrow for me. Even if it wanted to stick to a definition of fashion=wealth, then it could include more people of color because there are plenty of wealthy people of color. But Vogue is stuck in high fashion as equated with high wealth and European people because it is selling this image which in turn, they believe, sells magazines. Why, because we have bought into this high fallutin' ideal as well...(someone mentioned hegemony). Ironically, even as Vogue clings to this ideal of how it defines high fashion, more and more designers are selling in places like target.

 

[Joseph26]

Joseph, great that you don't take things personally...keeps dialogue going and helps everyone learn something. This thread probably would've died a long time ago without your input, and wouldn't that be a shame?

maybe it's time to get a few of Karma, I'll be waiting

 

[Joseph26]

honey LIKE I SAID was more street/black culture based, if that makes any sense to you...
it was written like you'd talk on the street...
when i'm reading a fashion magazine, i want articles, features, etc. on fashion as well as great editorials...
basically i want to learn something...
honey wasn't teaching me anything, except who so and so was dating...

now that makes sense, it's all about to write well

TOTAL AUDIENCE 10,635,000
Female / Male 88% / 12%
Median Age 36 years
Media Household Income $64,882

male= only 12% , I wonder what was the male % in the early 90's when Cindy and Claudia appealed male audience.

if i want to buy a $1500 balenciaga bag i will, but i also buy things from h&m, club monaco, and forever 21...

wow, with $1500 I can buy like 15 jeans, 15 t-shirts, 10 shoes, 5 sweaters, 4 sunglasses and 4 hats. I hope to be included in your Christmas list for gifts