Racial Diversity In Modeling

[simons]

change happens gradually. i think these kind of "stunts" of using only "ethnic" models will do nothing but provide shock/amazement and die out.. i think for change to really occur, it needs time and not just something for shock "in your face" value.. cause then, wouldn't it be done for the wrong reasons?

 

[aquarian5]

And do you realise that shows are the main source of income for girls who can't have the big campaigns? Some people here seem to think if you're White you have it easy in the fashion industry, or that White girls go out of their way to steal job from Black girls. There is crazy competition and most girls fight to make a living. How a all Black Vuitton/Lanvin/etc. show, like the poster I was responding to want, is fair? How is it acceptable to put White girls out of business like that just to make a point? And how is that not discriminative? Beside, why make the issue only about Black models? They are not the only underrepresented ethnic group.

Im just trying to figure out how white girls are trying to steal a job from a black girl?.... because there usually isn't but 1 or 2 black girls on the runway in the first place!!!! (so if white models are trying to take there spot then that would end up being an ALL WHITE SHOW!!! in which it usually is! So right about now i couldn't give a D8mn about how hard it is for a white model when ETHNIC models seem absolete!! Also I did NOT say all black, i said ETHNIC! which refers to everyone who doesn't look white (asian's, puerto rican, indian, black, etc).

 

[aquarian5]

change happens gradually. i think these kind of "stunts" of using only "ethnic" models will do nothing but provide shock/amazement and die out.. i think for change to really occur, it needs time and not just something for shock "in your face" value.. cause then, wouldn't it be done for the wrong reasons?

I totally agree with you. But i think that if people dont stand up and make a statement then it will just be pushed under a rug. So i think it can go either way people (in the fashion industry) just dont know which way is the right way.

 

[Harumi]

I didn't say nothing about putting white models out of business.

Yes you did. You proposition of an all Black show is exactly that.

im just saying that if they did it ONE good time then it would be a head turner and would make a big statement

Vogue IT was it. If the message didn't go through then it never will.

White models are OVERRATED to much of the same thing is BORING!!!

Every single one of them? How isn't that statement bigoted? And what do you mean the 'same thing'? Can't you tell White people apart? Daria looks the same to you than Tanya or Freja? If a White person was telling such thing about Black models, you would be call her/him a racist...

its looking a bit boring if you ask me and many other's who've noticed.

The main reason the shows are boring is because of all the anemic kids with no personality that are being casted. For the most part the designer do not want real women who will upstage their clothing. When the fashion industry will go back to appreciating women, diversity will make a come back too. It is no coincidence that Yves saint-Laurent, a great lover of women, always had the best, most ethnically diverse shows. And the 90's supers were all about personality, and thus we had Yasmeen, Nadege, Naomi, etc.

So right about now i couldn't give a D8mn about how hard it is for a white model when ETHNIC models seem absolete!!

So you basically only care about your own. How does that make you any different from the White casting directors who won't even see ethnic models.

Also I did NOT say all black

Yes you did. Re-read your own post.

 

[crow_watcher]

And do you realise that shows are the main source of income for girls who can't have the big campaigns? Some people here seem to think if you're White you have it easy in the fashion industry, or that White girls go out of their way to steal job from Black girls. There is crazy competition and most girls fight to make a living. How a all Black Vuitton/Lanvin/etc. show, like the poster I was responding to want, is fair? How is it acceptable to put White girls out of business like that just to make a point? And how is that not discriminative? Beside, why make the issue only about Black models? They are not the only underrepresented ethnic group.


I though we were talking about the lack of diversity? Obviously some people are not interested in diversity. borrring!

I'll use this analogy--the grass is green, but someone will swear to you the grass is orange.

You might be thinking, "What?" Yeah well...exactly.

 

[KhaoticKharma]

do designers really see race as a trend? As they do with certain types of fabrics and jackets?

Not just race, but coloring and even body type as well.

In the 1980's, a girl like Kate Moss wouldn't have been able to find an agency willing to hire her; when she did come along, however, the glamazons were out on the street. To fashion insiders, people are trends too, which is sad.

I think this article is pretty much stating the obvious, but all the attention the fashion industry has been getting from media outlets is going to force them to change, which is certainly a positive. As more and more models get the work celebs took from them, more and more black models will appear. Models have a had a tough time for the last decade or so, hence black models having a super, super hard time.

 

[Fontenrose]

It's always bothered me that there is a significant lack of black & asian models in the industry. In the past it could be argued that the "white wash" was because it was largely white westerners that were buying designer fashion but in recent years, south and east Asian countries, in particular, have emerged as increasingly powerful luxury markets. I believe the luxury market in India is worth something like $4 billion alone. Although there have been some notable black and asian models seen on the runway in the last 2 years, the industry is still far from being truly representative and in fact it still feels like tokenism to me.

Most of these decisions are economic. There is more prejudice against darker tones of skin in India or Asia than in western countries.

 

[fashionista-ta]

And do you realise that shows are the main source of income for girls who can't have the big campaigns? Some people here seem to think if you're White you have it easy in the fashion industry, or that White girls go out of their way to steal job from Black girls. There is crazy competition and most girls fight to make a living. How a all Black Vuitton/Lanvin/etc. show, like the poster I was responding to want, is fair? How is it acceptable to put White girls out of business like that just to make a point? And how is that not discriminative? Beside, why make the issue only about Black models? They are not the only underrepresented ethnic group.

I though we were talking about the lack of diversity? Obviously some people are not interested in diversity.Didn't you know? White girls are borrring!

When black models dominate the industry like Eastern Europeans have of late, we should definitely have this conversation. If we're still alive, I mean ...

 

[fashionista-ta]

Inaccurate much?

I hate the way the media nails it all down to Obama when it comes to racial diversity these days, like he's the new Mandela or the 21st century Martin Luther King. He's nothing compared to them.

The editor who conceived the all-black model Vogue Italia issue was specifically inspired by Obama. That is the connection that has been reported. The difference between him and Mandela/King is that they have completed their greatest accomplishments, and likely he has not yet begun his. Had she been inspired by someone else, their name would be connected to this--but she was not.

 

[scriptgirl]

The issue isn't that there are not enough black, Asian or Latina models, it is that they are not being used enough and if they are used, it is in stereotypical ways-like black models wearing animal prints or being depicted in "wild" poses.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ But I think the lack of demand has also translated into a lack of supply as well, at least in some places ...

 

[jjbunny79]

For some stupid reason, I feel that there is a sense of being is that "high-end fashion is made for white ppl (especially western european) by default. and therefore if non-white trying to put on high-end fashion, we have to spice it up with some exotic element to make it 'politically correct'".
At the very same time, many people kinda failed to realise that although East Europeans is now group as white, they are still treated very differently as western european/north american white model. Just think about some of the historical english literature about Slavic people in the past, to the stereotype from the cold war or even CNN actually make clips about the new Russian model wave (with Miss Sasha P.); you know the Eastern European girls is still treated with a somewhat stereotypically.

 

[scriptgirl]

Yeah, but at least the Eastern European girls are working.

 

[Harumi]

Just think about some of the historical english literature about Slavic people in the past, to the stereotype from the cold war or even CNN actually make clips about the new Russian model wave (with Miss Sasha P.); you know the Eastern European girls is still treated with a somewhat stereotypically.

There are treated stereotypically by the mainstream media, not the fashion world (although the fashion world often mistreat and exploit these girls, so it's not rosy either). But the fashion advertisers will not risk portraying them in ads in a ignorant way because the EE market is just too big now. It's like the Japanese in the 90's, portrayed horribly in American movie and media, but the campaigns and some of the products were conceived with this market in mind. They still are.

 

[KhaoticKharma]

And do you realise that shows are the main source of income for girls who can't have the big campaigns? Some people here seem to think if you're White you have it easy in the fashion industry, or that White girls go out of their way to steal job from Black girls. There is crazy competition and most girls fight to make a living. How a all Black Vuitton/Lanvin/etc. show, like the poster I was responding to want, is fair? How is it acceptable to put White girls out of business like that just to make a point? And how is that not discriminative? Beside, why make the issue only about Black models? They are not the only underrepresented ethnic group.

I though we were talking about the lack of diversity? Obviously some people are not interested in diversity.Didn't you know? White girls are borrring!

Wow. Where to even begin...


Fashion has been tough on everyone, yes, but that just means that it's even tougher on girls of color. There are some designers that literally do not want to SEE girls of color at castings.

If the fashion industry were to represent the world with one hundred top models, sixty of them would be Asian; eighty two of them would be non-white. There are about five top black models and three Asian ones. Justify that, please.

 

[Harumi]

Fashion has been tough on everyone, yes, but that just means that it's even tougher on girls of color. There are some designers that literally do not want to SEE girls of color at castings.

Please, do read the other posts I have made after this one. I did mention those casting directors who won't see ethnics models.

I don't know if I getting my point across the way I'd like to.
I am perfectly aware of the problem but some of the 'solutions' proposed on this board are offensive to me. It seems to me some posters want to take 'punitive' actions against the White models (like all ethnic shows, etc.) as if they are such evil creatures for being casted, when the real culprits are the misogynists who ran the industry.
Because beyond the question of race, the true the problem, imo, is the rampant misogyny in the fashion industry. The White models may get jobs but they are often not well treated, are pressured to live unhealthy lifestyles and do not have job security (except for an elite few). And that's for the White ones. How do you expect the ethnic models to be respected in these conditions? It was always going to be harder for them, so of course right now it's nightmarish.
Even if you get more ethnic models now on the catwalk, they will face the same problems than any other models working now in the industry.
That is why I think forming model unions and installing minimum legal ages is the answer to fight all kind of abuses and discriminations. When the models will become more empowered, there will be less discrimination, imo.
Christy could blackmail her clients into hiring Naomi because she had power and a status. Even star models nowadays don't have that kind of power.
So that's what I am advocating: empower the models, then get on with the issue of diversity.

If the fashion industry were to represent the world with one hundred top models, sixty of them would be Asian; eighty two of them would be non-white. There are about five top black models and three Asian ones. Justify that, please.

Justify? Are you serious with that?
First: why would the fashion industry respect quota? What kind of ridiculous idea is that?
Second: Even if we were indulging in that ludicrous concept, we are talking about the Occidental fashion industry. Try recalculating your quotas with Occidental statistics. Or else we need to start talking about those horribly racists African designers who won't cast White models for their shows, and those bigoted Indians who won't cast Japanese women in their shows, etc.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ Well, here is what I'm not understanding about your posts. I understand that you're saying that some of the solutions being proposed (like occasional all-black or all-ethnic shows) are offensive to you.

Here is the thing ... this is only hypothetical. I am not understanding why you seem to be far more offended by purely hypothetical, occasional 'discrimination' (and it probably can't really accurately be called that) against the majority, than by the very real discrimination against models of color that actually exists right now, and for quite some time ...

 

[writergal28]

This might be a little off topic, but you know what my worry is? That niche market fashion, as small as it is already, will become "ethnic fashion," making it even more ignored. Almost every "petite" designer I have come across is Asian or Latin/ Mediterranean. Some of these designers seem to use models who're Asian or Latina. While it may be true that there are more Asians and Latinas who are on the petite side, there are also lots of petite white and black women too. I worry that however "mainstream" these designers' clothes look, they'd be labelled as "ethnic market" because their models aren't white. (I don't think being a non-white designer is as much of an issue, however).

 

[Harumi]

I am not understanding why you seem to be far more offended by purely hypothetical, occasional 'discrimination' (and it probably can't really accurately be called that) against the majority, than by the very real discrimination against models of color that actually exists right now, and for quite some time ...

You really got the wrong impression or I have been particularly inarticulate.
What offends me is that to some people, discrimination against one certain race is deemed more acceptable than against another one. I am equally offended by all kind of bigotries. That is what I have been reacting against.
In one earlier post I made that remark: "There is crazy competition and most girls fight to make a living" and some later poster just assumed I was only talking about White models, which obviously wasn't the case. My point was that all models want and need to work, so doing shows with only one ethnicity is exactly the same thing as having casting directors who won't even see non-white models.

purely hypothetical, occasional 'discrimination' (and it probably can't really accurately be called that)

So because it's just some Internet musing it is inoffensive? Also, how do you call excluding one ethnicity from a show? I call it discrimination. You call it that too when talking about non-white models, which is what is happening right now, but if if it's about White models it's no big deal?
And I know it's not going to happen, I just wonder why it's alright to entertain that thought and no-one bats an eyelid.

 

[fashionista-ta]

You really got the wrong impression or I have been particularly inarticulate.
What offends me is that to some people, discrimination against one certain race is deemed more acceptable than against another one. I am equally offended by all kind of bigotries. That is what I have been reacting against.
In one earlier post I made that remark: "There is crazy competition and most girls fight to make a living" and some later poster just assumed I was only talking about White models, which obviously wasn't the case. My point was that all models want and need to work, so doing shows with only one ethnicity is exactly the same thing as having casting directors who won't even see non-white models. So because it's just some Internet musing it is inoffensive? Also, how do you call excluding one ethnicity from a show? I call it discrimination. You call it that too when talking about non-white models, which is what is happening right now, but if if it's about White models it's no big deal?
And I know it's not going to happen, I just wonder why it's alright to entertain that thought and no-one bats an eyelid.

It's not exactly the same thing at all.

So let's say we've had 100,000 all-white or nearly all-white shows.

And then we have one that's all non-white.

What that is, is a statement. "Does this look different to you? Is this shocking, surprising, offensive? This is what your 100,000 shows looked like to non-white people." (Or would, if they weren't so used to the white-out.) Plus, it would probably be at least somewhat challenging to find enough non-white models to staff an entire show. All of which would be quite educational, and would put a few grains of sand toward redressing a long-standing imbalance.

What makes it more than all right to entertain is the current context, which is highly discriminatory against non-white models.

If we lived in a world where the last 100,000 shows had been non-white, and there was a significant white target audience, then we would have discrimination to talk about.