Racial Diversity In Modeling

[KhaoticKharma]

Justify? Are you serious with that?
First: why would the fashion industry respect quota? What kind of ridiculous idea is that?
Second: Even if we were indulging in that ludicrous concept, we are talking about the Occidental fashion industry. Try recalculating your quotas with Occidental statistics. Or else we need to start talking about those horribly racists African designers who won't cast White models for their shows, and those bigoted Indians who won't cast Japanese women in their shows, etc.

Last time I checked, advertisments- though targeted to those who will buy the products- are seen all over the world by millions of people, namely young women who are sent a message through the giant billboards and mass circulated print adverts and edits in magazines; and what message, exactly, is being sent to them? That they are inadequate by default because of their race? That, unless they have white features, they aren't beautiful? Because that's the way it looks to me right now.


Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong, but none of those "terribly racists" African designers are dressing Hollywood starlets for the red carpet, and none of the "bigoted Indian" ones are getting big time profiles in Vogue magazine; unless they are and I'm missing it, I really don't think we should be lumping them in with the likes of Prada and Versace.

 

[nyc_art_style]

african american models are doing well this month.

jourdan has a pop cover. and is in vogue italia for august. along with chanel iman.
both girls have good ads.
and tyra has landed the cover of harper's bazaar for september. black, a model, and not model size. three birds with one stone.

maybe change is actually happening. we won't really know until shows start i guess.

 

[Eurasian Mélange]

Although I do not agree with everything Harumi is saying, I think I see his/her point. It reminds me of feminism, actually...

My husband works as a scientist. This is a traditionally male-dominated field. Feminism (mainly in the western world) wants to get more women in there so that it is exactly 50/50, just like the population of the world is 50% male, 50% female. Just the same as how people would prefer to have equal numbers of white and non-white models (though it would be divided differently).

However, what they fail to take into account is... how many women make the career choice to be scientists? In my husband's specific field, out of the 100% of people that choose to be scientists, 80% are men and only 20% are women. Let's say there are 1,000 scientists in North America, 800 men and 200 women, and about 600 job positions to be filled. Feminism is slowly having its way in the western world (particularly US), meaning 100% of the women (200) are given those jobs, while only 40% of men (300) are given jobs. This leaves 60% of men (500) with no jobs (if they want exactly 50/50 in these 600 jobs they will wait for another 100 women which do not exist and refuse all male applicants). Men are rejected based upon their gender. Qualifications, achievements and work skills are completely ignored.

Is this fair? Shouldn't it be that 120 jobs (20%) are reserved for women and 480 jobs (80%) are reserved for men? Then both 60% of all men and 60% of all women are employed. Isn't that more equal than 100% women employed and 40% men employed?

In other words, in order to be truly equal, the percentages of people making a specific career choice should simply be reflected in employment rather than pushing for a 50/50 employment that may never exist due to lack of interest. Does anyone honestly believe that demanding to have 50% male hairdressers worldwide would work well?

So, in regards to modelling, I think we also need to know how many Black, Indian, Middle Eastern, Asian, etc. people are actually trying to be models before we decide there should be equal parts of A, B and C. Does anyone know the percentages of different ethnicities trying to make it in North America?

 

[kahlilg]

... something about this logic is extremely flawed. maybe it's the fact that women are socialized into believing that they aren't good at math and science and that they shouldn't try. not all women of course, but society is playing a major role in how we think of ourselves. i'm sure that if society was fair for both sexes men and women in the scientific field would be 50/50.

now relating back to models: women of color are socialized into believing that they aren't as beautiful as the white woman. now if what you are saying is true, this would mean women of color aren't trying to be models because they don't feel like they are qualified enough.

no one here is advocating jobs be taken away, only that there should be an equal playing field for all. unfortunately, it isn't.

 

[fashionista-ta]

I just saw a study that showed women's performance suffered significantly when they were reminded of gender differences prior to the test. So there is no question that these societal messages matter & do affect people.

I also think there are differences between the average male and female brains. Men, for example, tend to have more spatial ability; women tend to have more communication ability. But as I say, this study seems to indicate that belief trumps (or at least significantly mutes) ability.

I don't this has anything at all to do with racial diversity in modeling, though, except perhaps as kahlilq points out, that there is a clear message to women of color that theirs is not standard beauty in society at large, and therefore perhaps a belief exists among women of color that they are not wanted as models. (If this belief exists, it may not be far from the truth, at least since the 70s, until quite recently ... ) Btw, I've noticed that black men tend to be far more vocal than white men about appreciating how women look. So I'm not sure black women think they're not beautiful, I think they do ... they may well be more confident than white women. But anyone being exposed to mainstream media could not fail to get its message ...

I was glad to see Tyra on the Bazaar cover, especially September, since we've heard so often that doing this is not commercially viable. I just wish the covers had been better ...

 

[ChristionCouture]

Does anyone know what happened to the Naomi Campbell thread? Is this it?

 

[nyc_art_style]

yes. if you go some pages you'll see the discussion has been moved here.

 

[ChristionCouture]

It's funny how this started off as a "lack of Black models" topic and quickly transitioned into an all-inclusive "RACIAL DIVERSITY" topic. I am all for racial diversity as a whole, but I wonder how long it will take to shift focus back to non-black models (as usual) in this new, all-inclusive topic.

 

[writergal28]

I don't this has anything at all to do with racial diversity in modeling, though, except perhaps as kahlilq points out, that there is a clear message to women of color that theirs is not standard beauty in society at large, and therefore perhaps a belief exists among women of color that they are not wanted as models. (If this belief exists, it may not be far from the truth, at least since the 70s, until quite recently ... ) Btw, I've noticed that black men tend to be far more vocal than white men about appreciating how women look. So I'm not sure black women think they're not beautiful, I think they do ... they may well be more confident than white women. But anyone being exposed to mainstream media could not fail to get its message ...

I was glad to see Tyra on the Bazaar cover, especially September, since we've heard so often that doing this is not commercially viable. I just wish the covers had been better ...

Yeah, but models these days aren't even all that pretty, compared to the supermodels of the 80s and 90s.

 

[Eurasian Mélange]

Maybe I was not clear enough with my last post.

I was not trying to post a solution to inequality regarding gender or race, but pointing out that people here are forgetting to take into account an important part of the equation: how many non-white ethnicities are trying to get into modelling? You can't ask for the percentages of ethnicities in the world to be reflected in modelling if not everyone in the world is trying to model. I hope that makes more sense.

My other point was that automatically making availability of jobs 50/50 is not magically going to fill those spots and will effectively 'take away' jobs from those already working that aren't a minority. Using my science example, it is not to do with women being convinced they are not good at science. Recent studies from the past few years have actually shown that girls have been excelling in sciences and mathematics whereas boys have been falling behind. There has also been a large increase in numbers of women going into mathematics and science careers. The more important issue here is how many women are truly interested in becoming scientists? Just because one is good at a particular subject, it does not necessarily mean one will enjoy it enough to make a career out of it. Equality will not be created in science by changing how many women are accepted to jobs based on gender: you need to look outside that and either find women who enjoy science or show women it can be enjoyable.

Applying this to modelling, how many non-white people want to become models? Here we have to take into account that with skin of colour there also come issues of culture, tradition and religion... If we are talking about having the world's exact percentages of each ethnicity represented in fashion, that would mean making the majority Chinese and Indian (and that includes a lot of native ones, not just those born in North America). How many Chinese and Indian parents would encourage and support their children to become models instead of doctors/lawyers? How many Chinese/Indian parents will be fine with their child dropping out of school to pursue a modelling career? How many Chinese/Indian people would feel comfortable telling their parents and family they want to model? How many Chinese/Indian people would feel comfortable enough posing/catwalking in bikinis with their conservative cultures?

The answers to the questions above can explain why the largest minorities in the world are not so well-represented in modelling. The solution is to find those who are either open enough to it, or to challenge their cultures/traditions/religions to convince them it's okay to model. The former is not always easy to find as, even after several generations, a Chinese/Indian family in the west can still be very conservative. The latter would be offensive to them.

Another thing I didn't mention that should be taken into account is to do with marketing. In the US it goes without saying that they are selling to the US. The largest ethnic group in the US is Caucasian. I remember the number of Black people was an incredibly small percentage and the amount of Asians is so small that they are often not included as a racial category in surveys. The fashion industry doesn't care about their customers possibly feeling ugly because their race isn't represented as long as they are selling enough. If Whites are the majority and they are all happily spending away, the minorities won't be catered to. Sure, it may not be 'right', but they are not going to change unless there is a large profit to be made. The only way to make a change is to go and do it yourself by starting your own modelling agency, raising awareness, etc.

I don't this has anything at all to do with racial diversity in modeling, though

It was just an analogy. I always seem to use analogies with everything and I don't know why.

About the study: different women have different views and reactions. Some women might be motivated to do better and prove everyone wrong, others may feel 'why bother', but I don't think they would all react the same way. It seems to me the study may be biased because if it 'proves' all women automatically cave after being told about gender differences, how did the feminist movement begin initially? If all ethnicities automatically considered themselves hideous from not seeing their race represented in the media, how did any non-white models appear in the first place? How can we believe that people are that easily brainwashed and their spirits so effortlessly crushed?

Also, regarding Black women... In North America it seems they have their own entire culture and, from what I've experienced, I do not think all North American Black women's beauty ideal is the image of a model. A lot of North American Black women I have known seem to look up to hip-hop models for that rather than fashion models. Models to them are not 'healthy-looking' or 'womanly' enough in their opinion. I am only repeating what I've heard from women I've known here.

 

[kahlilg]

I was not trying to post a solution to inequality regarding gender or race, but pointing out that people here are forgetting to take into account an important part of the equation: how many non-white ethnicities are trying to get into modelling? You can't ask for the percentages of ethnicities in the world to be reflected in modelling if not everyone in the world is trying to model. I hope that makes more sense.

Right. And my point was that a study like that would fail to explain the reason why women of color don't pursue a modeling career. Though I'm interested in seeing the study since I'm pretty sure a fair amount of women of color pursue modeling. I mean Naomi even recounted in a story I posted a few pages back about how she had to fight to be to token black model. Designers would actually say "we have our black girl already. sorry."

My other point was that automatically making availability of jobs 50/50 is not magically going to fill those spots and will effectively 'take away' jobs from those already working that aren't a minority. Using my science example, it is not to do with women being convinced they are not good at science. Recent studies from the past few years have actually shown that girls have been excelling in sciences and mathematics whereas boys have been falling behind. There has also been a large increase in numbers of women going into mathematics and science careers. The more important issue here is how many women are truly interested in becoming scientists? Just because one is good at a particular subject, it does not necessarily mean one will enjoy it enough to make a career out of it. Equality will not be created in science by changing how many women are accepted to jobs based on gender: you need to look outside that and either find women who enjoy science or show women it can be enjoyable.

Yes. They have been excelling, compared to past women. However there is still inequality. My point was that society values men and their opinions more and therefore women hesitate about joining a male dominated field. Now is this changing? Of course. Feminism has made great strides but the war is not over yet.

Applying this to modelling, how many non-white people want to become models? Here we have to take into account that with skin of colour there also come issues of culture, tradition and religion... If we are talking about having the world's exact percentages of each ethnicity represented in fashion, that would mean making the majority Chinese and Indian (and that includes a lot of native ones, not just those born in North America). How many Chinese and Indian parents would encourage and support their children to become models instead of doctors/lawyers? How many Chinese/Indian parents will be fine with their child dropping out of school to pursue a modelling career? How many Chinese/Indian people would feel comfortable telling their parents and family they want to model? How many Chinese/Indian people would feel comfortable enough posing/catwalking in bikinis with their conservative cultures?

The answers to the questions above can explain why the largest minorities in the world are not so well-represented in modelling. The solution is to find those who are either open enough to it, or to challenge their cultures/traditions/religions to convince them it's okay to model. The former is not always easy to find as, even after several generations, a Chinese/Indian family in the west can still be very conservative. The latter would be offensive to them.

I will agree with you that there may be a conflict of values for some people. But see something about what your saying sounds off to me. Because there are chinese and indian models. Maybe you are missing my point, but I'm not advocating forcing women of color to get into modeling. I just want to make sure that if they do want to, they are getting fair treatment. All of your theory relies on a thought that women of color aren't trying, which, I disagree with.
And I don't agree with your solutions at all. Challenging their values? For what? What a westernized ethnocentric solution. You are missing the point entirely. I honestly don't know where to go with this but I will repeat: All women should be getting fair treatment.
Also, I feel really uncomfortable talking about cultures I know very little about. If you know more maybe you can educate me a little but for now I'll leave this part alone.

Another thing I didn't mention that should be taken into account is to do with marketing. In the US it goes without saying that they are selling to the US. The largest ethnic group in the US is Caucasian. I remember the number of Black people was an incredibly small percentage and the amount of Asians is so small that they are often not included as a racial category in surveys. The fashion industry doesn't care about their customers possibly feeling ugly because their race isn't represented as long as they are selling enough. If Whites are the majority and they are all happily spending away, the minorities won't be catered to. Sure, it may not be 'right', but they are not going to change unless there is a large profit to be made. The only way to make a change is to go and do it yourself by starting your own modelling agency, raising awareness, etc.

But we are raising awareness by talking about it. Unless that's what you meant.

About the study: different women have different views and reactions. Some women might be motivated to do better and prove everyone wrong, others may feel 'why bother', but I don't think they would all react the same way. It seems to me the study may be biased because if it 'proves' all women automatically cave after being told about gender differences, how did the feminist movement begin initially? If all ethnicities automatically considered themselves hideous from not seeing their race represented in the media, how did any non-white models appear in the first place? How can we believe that people are that easily brainwashed and their spirits so effortlessly crushed?

Because women stood up against oppression. I even said that not all women suffer from socialization the same way, some can even rise above it. But just because the feminist movement came about doesn't mean women don't feel socialized anymore. In fact the reason why the feminist movement came about was because of society and it's treatment of women. Like I said above the feminist movement has made great strides but the war is not over yet. Same thing goes for women of color. I also never said all ethnicities considered themselves hideous. I meant that the white standard of beauty is put on a pedestal. And even some women of color aspire to the white standard of beauty. Some of the most famous models of color fit the white standard of beauty beautifully. Light skin, blonde hair, skinny nose, skinny hips, lanky, colored eyes, etc. And brainwashed? What the...

Also, regarding Black women... In North America it seems they have their own entire culture and, from what I've experienced, I do not think all North American Black women's beauty ideal is the image of a model. A lot of North American Black women I have known seem to look up to hip-hop models for that rather than fashion models. Models to them are not 'healthy-looking' or 'womanly' enough in their opinion. I am only repeating what I've heard from women I've known here.

wow.

 

[fashionista-ta]

Does anyone know what happened to the Naomi Campbell thread? Is this it?

I believe this is a merge of three threads--one that discussed the Prada runway model controversy, a model thread that I believe included "all white" in the title, and the Naomi Campbell rumor thread (which had grown beyond Naomi).

 

[fashionista-ta]

It's funny how this started off as a "lack of Black models" topic and quickly transitioned into an all-inclusive "RACIAL DIVERSITY" topic. I am all for racial diversity as a whole, but I wonder how long it will take to shift focus back to non-black models (as usual) in this new, all-inclusive topic.

Both under-represented races are worthy of discussion, yes? I'm always amazed at the number of new Asian luxury boutiques opening all the time, and how few faces on the runway represent that target market ...

 

[fashionista-ta]

About the study: different women have different views and reactions. Some women might be motivated to do better and prove everyone wrong, others may feel 'why bother', but I don't think they would all react the same way. It seems to me the study may be biased because if it 'proves' all women automatically cave after being told about gender differences, how did the feminist movement begin initially? If all ethnicities automatically considered themselves hideous from not seeing their race represented in the media, how did any non-white models appear in the first place? How can we believe that people are that easily brainwashed and their spirits so effortlessly crushed?

The study didn't show that the women "caved," were "brainwashed" or "crushed." It showed that their performance suffered in a significant, measurable way. Obviously they didn't give up or there would have been no results to measure.

 

[nyc_art_style]

Also, regarding Black women... In North America it seems they have their own entire culture and, from what I've experienced, I do not think all North American Black women's beauty ideal is the image of a model. A lot of North American Black women I have known seem to look up to hip-hop models for that rather than fashion models. Models to them are not 'healthy-looking' or 'womanly' enough in their opinion. I am only repeating what I've heard from women I've known here.

Wow is right. It's crazy to group millions of women of having the same ideas, opinions, views, likes and dislikes. Not every African American woman in America looks up to video girls. Not every African American woman comes from the same culture. What you are repeating are the views of several women, not millions.

 

[Eurasian Mélange]

Right. And my point was that a study like that would fail to explain the reason why women of color don't pursue a modeling career. Though I'm interested in seeing the study since I'm pretty sure a fair amount of women of color pursue modeling.

I did not mention a study in the post, I only wanted to know what are the statistics of ethnicities working on becoming models. I also never said I was trying to explain why non-white people do not pursue modelling in that first post. I was pointing out that people are not considering how many pursue that career and that nobody knows the exact numbers (which would be important in 'equalising' everything). There is a big difference between 'why' and 'how many', which was why I thought you misunderstood me before replying.

Yes. They have been excelling, compared to past women. However there is still inequality. My point was that society values men and their opinions more and therefore women hesitate about joining a male dominated field. Now is this changing? Of course. Feminism has made great strides but the war is not over yet.

I disagree, but since my analogy has only confused people that is for another thread.

I will agree with you that there may be a conflict of values for some people. But see something about what your saying sounds off to me. Because there are chinese and indian models. Maybe you are missing my point, but I'm not advocating forcing women of color to get into modeling. I just want to make sure that if they do want to, they are getting fair treatment. All of your theory relies on a thought that women of color aren't trying, which, I disagree with.
And I don't agree with your solutions at all. Challenging their values? For what? What a westernized ethnocentric solution. You are missing the point entirely. I honestly don't know where to go with this but I will repeat: All women should be getting fair treatment.
Also, I feel really uncomfortable talking about cultures I know very little about. If you know more maybe you can educate me a little but for now I'll leave this part alone.

I did not say there are no Chinese or Indian models, just that there will never be a majority considering culture, tradition and religion. She is not Chinese or Indian, but as an example of religion/tradition/culture being a problem... Yasmeen Ghauri is half German, half Pakistani. She also grew up in Canada, which probably played a part in her determination to become a model and her eventual success (Canadians would not discriminate against her, whereas they would if she had lived in a country with many other Muslims). However, as far as I know, her parents disapprove and had many fights with her. I am not surprised though, seeing as her father is a Muslim and an imam. Perhaps they have disowned her, I have no idea. It would take many generations in a western country for people like this to accept modelling as a career choice for their daughters.


I never said you personally were talking about forcing non-white women to get into modelling. However, some people seem to believe races in modelling should represent the world's races exactly. All I am doing is saying that is not possible. Sure, there can be more non-white people in modelling, but I highly doubt it would ever reflect the world's races exactly for the reasons I've stated.


I never said anywhere in any of my posts that I think women of colour are not trying. That is only your assumption. Please do not twist what I am saying. I said we need to know how many are trying in order to make it more equal and I have also been saying that, among certain ethnicities, it is unlikely they would try, but I never said none are trying at all.


There is a lot of misunderstanding and misinterpretation here, thanks to the internet. That was certainly not a suggestion at all! Did you not read how I said that was offensive? Not to mention it also being downright disrespectful. That was why I typed it: I was attempting to illustrate to people how silly it is to believe the world's races can be represented exactly in fashion when so many ethnicities have tradition, culture and religion standing in the way. In other words, asking them, 'What are you going to do to reach that ideal? Tell people their culture, traditions and beliefs are all wrong?' No one has the right to do that just to make fashion as equal as the world is.


And with the 'equal percentages' idea I suggested in my first post it would not be equal? Naturally, the percentages of X race that are employed would change and fluctuate with more women of colour entering the industry so that every race has a fair chance even if one outnumbers another.


I know a lot more about Chinese than Indian, but I do know that, in general, they are conservative and keep many family traditions for generations despite living outside of their country of origin.

To the last part you typed: You're taking my post too personally. Even if I did respond directly to some parts, not all of it was in response to you.

The study didn't show that the women "caved," were "brainwashed" or "crushed." It showed that their performance suffered in a significant, measurable way. Obviously they didn't give up or there would have been no results to measure.

I misread it and over-reacted; I apologise for that.


However, I am still interested in discovering its reliability and validity because there are many 'studies' that claim to show certain results that are neither valid nor reliable. For example, a UK shop stated the most common bra size in the UK was X based upon how many bras in that size were bought from their shop. If 60-80% (not sure what it is now) of women wear the wrong bra size, how do they know any of those women bought the right bra? That shows it to be completely invalid and unreliable without considering the facts that not everyone shops at that store and not everyone will be buying one bra in whatever time frame they conducted the study in.


I have actually stumbled upon some things that may be of interest in this thread (not to do with gender, but with race).


This is from a book (click on 'ethnicity and body satisfaction' under 'age, social class, ethnicity and sexuality' http://books.google.ca/books?id=G2drfjc8AkIC&printsec=frontcover


Sounds like the absence of women of colour in modelling is not doing them any harm or making them feel unattractive. In fact it is the White women that are the most insecure.


This is a study and an article on the lady who conducted it:


Study (on a TV site else you don't get to see a lot of what was done http://cmch.tv/research/fullRecord.asp?id=1668


Article: http://www.rps.psu.edu/0009/rolemodel.html


It seems Black women's self-esteem is only worsened by seeing 'too-thin' Black models. Is making the fashion industry more racially diverse going to have a large negative impact on women of colour? Perhaps more reason to campaign for other body types to be included, such as plus-size and petite.


Then again, the study did not use such a large sample, which leads me to wonder if it was really reliable or not. I would definitely like to see more similar studies though.

Wow is right. It's crazy to group millions of women of having the same ideas, opinions, views, likes and dislikes. Not every African American woman in America looks up to video girls. Not every African American woman comes from the same culture. What you are repeating are the views of several women, not millions.

Show me where I said 'All African American women have the same ideas, opinions, views... etc.'


Show me where I said, 'All African American women look up to video girls.'


Show me where I said, 'All African American women come from the same culture.'


Show me where I said, 'I'm repeating the views of millions.'


... Show me all of those and then I will have something to say to you. I'm not going to respond if people are not going to read thoroughly enough or are going to twist what I've typed.


Either way, I have some things to add to what I posted about Black women in North America:

Also, regarding Black women... In North America it seems they have their own entire culture and, from what I've experienced, I do not think all North American Black women's beauty ideal is the image of a model. A lot of North American Black women I have known seem to look up to hip-hop models for that rather than fashion models. Models to them are not 'healthy-looking' or 'womanly' enough in their opinion. I am only repeating what I've heard from women I've known here.

I phrased the first sentence very badly and I can see why some people interpreted it as 'all'. I am sorry to anyone who was offended by it and apologise for not phrasing it well enough that it came across that way. There was supposed to be a 'some' (or something similar) in there, but if you're on such a sensitive topic as race and are having to tip-toe across minefields to avoid the PC brigade, you do forget tiny words that make HUGE differences. I've done it before and I'm sure it will happen again, despite how careful I may be.


However, I expected the rest of the paragraph to be pretty clear considering the words I've italicised... I added the last part (in bold) hoping to make it blatant that it was only from my experience/observation and that people would realise I am only talking about women I've known. Those women obviously being a small portion of all women in the area. Apparently I'm wrong and 'women I have known' easily translates to 'all women' and I have to spell it out again: these opinions on beauty = opinions of women I've known. I never said 'all', people only misinterpreted it that way because of bad phrasing in the first sentence and not reading the rest closely enough.


As for the rest, there is no denying that in North America, some Black people have developed their own North American culture (I've never seen it in Europe. Actually some of it is more popular with White people in the UK). Yes, it is certainly a stereotype, but don't forget most stereotypes are based on truths, no matter how uncommon some truths may be. Why else do you have Black music, Black literature sections, Ebonics, Black TV, Black magazines, Black films, Black radio stations... etc. It is not all made-up fiction based on someone's imagination. It is not what all Black people are into, but it does exist. I live right in the middle of it.


As for 'hip-hop model': I don't even know if they are called that, but that is what people seem to use in reference to them even when they are not video girls and only appear in magazines, Black films, Black TV and specialised fashion shows.


I don't see what is wrong with them thinking these Black women (who are popular only in Black communities) are more beautiful than fashion models. In fact, I myself would agree with them even if many people associate them with 'tacky' or 'distasteful'. Just because a number of these women do join the 'video girl' crowd it doesn't make them any less beautiful. Sure, it doesn't scream 'I respect myself', but I never said any of these women actually wanted or aspired to be in their position: they only admire their appearances and/or how they take care of their bodies.


There aren't any non-Black women I know that have knowledge of these (as I said, they don't seem to be popular outside of Black communities), but I have to say that, apart from people on this forum, I have never met anyone in real life that honestly looks up to fashion models as their 'beauty ideal'. Never. I've come across far more looking up to the beauty of celebrities such as actresses or singers. Probably because they represent a wider variety of body types and ethnicities.

 

[valcee]

As a Chinese model, let me offer my views on this issue. Firstly, I quite detest the term "people of colour" or "ethnics" to refer people who are not Caucasians. Excuse me, I hardly believe that this is a sociologically-accepted term. What does this mean? Caucasians have no colour? And whatever does "ethnics" mean? Ethnics mean ethnicity? So why call us "ethnics"? Yes we have an ethnicity eg, Chinese, Indian, Malay, Japnese, Korean so address us such please.

Secondly, we are not sold into modelling being a wise or good career choice in Asia. Most Asian parents still clamour over the glamour of elite professions eg doctor,lawyer,banker as they roll in the big $. Yes, we know that modelling can pay well but we see it as superficial,shallow,selling your bodies rather than intelligence. In fact in Hongkong and Taiwan, the entertainment capitals of Asia, models are expected to have a short shelf life and marry moneyed men to ensure material comforts,which often happens. This preconceived notion is prevalent in tabloid magazines,there's a tabloid culture that takes perverse pleasure in anal details and descriptions of a entertainment figure's private life, whether she is sleeping with someone, dating someone, marrying someone, how much she makes per event/launch etc.Aspiring actresses know that their modelling would be their launching pad for their acting career.Popular actresses started out as models eg Shu Qi.

Thirdly, there's a whitening craze in Asia. We want to be fair as snow white, we hate being tanned. Tanned models do not make it in Asia, Caucasian or Asian. If you're fair,Asia wants you.I think it's colourism at play here.Colourism or post colonial racism assumes that because of your biological heritage,eg you're Caucasian you will have certain privileges because of your heritage. It associates European features with power,wealth and beauty.This is unlike the pre-colonial racism which longer framed in the old context of "lifestyle/social circumstance determines appearance", i.e. "if you are wealthy, you will have certain physical characteristics as a result of your lifestyle" eg being fat was seen as prosperous in Ancient China.Colourism is further perpectuated by the fashion media though it would make dollars sense for the fashion world to sit up and take notice of the nouveau riche in China and India, huge emerging markets and market sensibly. Hope we won't keep seeing a Gemma Ward on the cover of Vogue India.

 

[kahlilg]

As a Chinese model, let me offer my views on this issue. Firstly, I quite detest the term "people of colour" or "ethnics" to refer people who are not Caucasians. Excuse me, I hardly believe that this is a sociologically-accepted term. What does this mean? Caucasians have no colour? And whatever does "ethnics" mean? Ethnics mean ethnicity? So why call us "ethnics"? Yes we have an ethnicity eg, Chinese, Indian, Malay, Japnese, Korean so address us such please.

Secondly, we are not sold into modelling being a wise or good career choice in Asia. Most Asian parents still clamour over the glamour of elite professions eg doctor,lawyer,banker as they roll in the big $. Yes, we know that modelling can pay well but we see it as superficial,shallow,selling your bodies rather than intelligence. In fact in Hongkong and Taiwan, the entertainment capitals of Asia, models are expected to have a short shelf life and marry moneyed men to ensure material comforts,which often happens. This preconceived notion is prevalent in tabloid magazines,there's a tabloid culture that takes perverse pleasure in anal details and descriptions of a entertainment figure's private life, whether she is sleeping with someone, dating someone, marrying someone, how much she makes per event/launch etc.Aspiring actresses know that their modelling would be their launching pad for their acting career.Popular actresses started out as models eg Shu Qi.

Thirdly, there's a whitening craze in Asia. We want to be fair as snow white, we hate being tanned. Tanned models do not make it in Asia, Caucasian or Asian. If you're fair,Asia wants you.I think it's colourism at play here.Colourism or post colonial racism assumes that because of your biological heritage,eg you're Caucasian you will have certain privileges because of your heritage. It associates European features with power,wealth and beauty.This is unlike the pre-colonial racism which longer framed in the old context of "lifestyle/social circumstance determines appearance", i.e. "if you are wealthy, you will have certain physical characteristics as a result of your lifestyle" eg being fat was seen as prosperous in Ancient China.Colourism is further perpectuated by the fashion media though it would make dollars sense for the fashion world to sit up and take notice of the nouveau riche in China and India, huge emerging markets and market sensibly. Hope we won't keep seeing a Gemma Ward on the cover of Vogue India.

Firstly, what would you prefer we use instead. The only reason I use "people of color" is cause it covers those who aren't white/caucasian. I don't like the term "minority" and "colored people" has had a negative connotation through out my history.

Secondly, I really appreciate this post. Someone who is asian and in the industry. Thank you for your post and I hope everyone here reads it.

 

[writergal28]

Thirdly, there's a whitening craze in Asia. We want to be fair as snow white, we hate being tanned. Tanned models do not make it in Asia, Caucasian or Asian. If you're fair,Asia wants you.I think it's colourism at play here.Colourism or post colonial racism assumes that because of your biological heritage,eg you're Caucasian you will have certain privileges because of your heritage. It associates European features with power,wealth and beauty.This is unlike the pre-colonial racism which longer framed in the old context of "lifestyle/social circumstance determines appearance", i.e. "if you are wealthy, you will have certain physical characteristics as a result of your lifestyle" eg being fat was seen as prosperous in Ancient China.Colourism is further perpectuated by the fashion media though it would make dollars sense for the fashion world to sit up and take notice of the nouveau riche in China and India, huge emerging markets and market sensibly. Hope we won't keep seeing a Gemma Ward on the cover of Vogue India.

You mean post colonial COLOURISM, since wealth doesn't equal race (going by the Asia has always been obsessed with fair skin story).

 

[Fontenrose]

Firstly, what would you prefer we use instead. The only reason I use "people of color" is cause it covers those who aren't white/caucasian. I don't like the term "minority" and "colored people" has had a negative connotation through out my history.

Secondly, I really appreciate this post. Someone who is asian and in the industry. Thank you for your post and I hope everyone here reads it.

I think "people of color" is an American term. No one else would know what that is about.

For the purposes of a modeling discussion, we could say white/non-white, meaning the category to which an agent would mentally assign a girl.

It doesn't really cover it, but as long as most models in NY and Paris are white (which includes many ethnicities) it at least describes the problem that non-white models are viewed as exotics.