Racial Diversity In Modeling

[Fontenrose]

I think a biracial look IS more attractive/palatable to most audiences.

However to me Chanel looks black, and very beautiful. I notice that the non-white models are not selected with the same criteria as white models. Many of the non-white models are more beautiful, or to put it another way, possibly more commercial?

Just look at the Teen Vogue trio of Karlie, Ali and Chanel.

 

[fashionista-ta]

i disagree with that chanel statment. she's part asain obvs but i think she could easily pass as full black.

I agree, I would venture to guess that she reads as black to most people.

When you read bios of a number of models who read as white (perhaps especially in the past--today's Eastern European type really is), you find out their backgrounds are often more complicated than that. I don't think there's necessarily anything insidious about it. My impression is that when you stir the genetic pot you often get very interesting results. I think these people are being selected, regardless of their perceived race, because they come across as special, exotic, out of the ordinary. They draw the eye, fascinate, which is exactly what a model's supposed to do. There are many people in Hollywood who have the same kind of diverse background.

There are definitely exceptions to the 'pretty' black model, e.g., Alek Wek and several 'unknowns' I've seen in Teen Vogue ...

PS KK, I wasn't saying there's anything disingenuous about the American ad ... my sister is one of the palest people I know & she uses a 'brightening' product (without the toxic ingredients). Just noting the difference in marketing.

 

[ChristionCouture]

I'm going to be blatantly honest right now. I've been casting Black and Asian models for a new TV show for the past couple of weeks and things are not looking good. LOL The agencies' ethnic models are horrible (with the exception of some of the well known stars)! I can't seem to find English-speaking Blacks and Asians with the entire package. It seems as though something is ALWAYS off with the majority of Black and Asians girls I've come across. Either the body is right and the face is not. Some of the Asian girls lack personality and some of the Black girls have too much personality. Some of the Asian girls have the body and not the face. Same goes with the black girls. Some have the face and the body, but lack everything else. Some are ghetto but have the face (and vice-versa). I've noticed that socio-economical issues come into play when you're casting. Nobody wants black Shaquita walking down the runway and making the clothes tacky because she hasn't fully assimilated into American Anglo culture. She might have the extra bop in her step or perch in her lips that sends a signal of unrefined and ghetto. Or perhaps she is refined, but her body is slightly too healthy and doesn't fit in with the chic aesthetic. Are most unassimilated black Americans just not naturally chic and classy? Is it just beauty or is it something deeper (socio-economical) than that? Ever heard of "you can take the girl out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the girl?" Scouts are faced with extra problems when scouting a new black model. They must find someone who has assimilated, (or is able to assimilate), has all of the right attributes within a small population of the country (just 13%) With girls of regular size shrinking that number, it's no wonder we don't see many American black models. LOL Could there be some truth in what Stefano Pilati said? (NOT! lol) I understand why the scouts seek untainted Blacks from other countries. They aren't burdened with the ghetto traits of Black American culture. Perhaps black American culture is not refined and coif enough for the high fashion industry... If anyone knows of any unknown or undiscovered model types, please let us know about them! FYI: I am black and I love black people.

 

[kahlilg]

see this confuses me though cause don't all models have to be trained to be models? i mean girls don't just walk into an agency and start work immediately. well not most. and plus people who don't know much about the fashion industry already have a preconceived idea of what a high fashion model is which is most of the time the wrong idea. i think it's just the girls you attracted maybe?

 

[birgitta]

oy vey

 

[birgitta]

this isn't meant to be a sarcastic comment, only a question, but could it be that the models one would consider the entire package are going through actual agencies rather than a television showI? or are the models being sent in through boutique agencies? i'm not an aficionado but it seems that most people see reality shows and modeling as the kiss-of-death in the fashion industry. the fact that most people in america,regardless of background or social standing think of antm or barbizon as credible ways of learning about the modeling industry doesn't really help matters. don't get me wrong, perhaps your show could be the one that shows reality tv in the U.S.A. is a useful way to recruit models as other nations have demonstrated, but for now i think the average person attracted to a television castiing call would not have a completely realistic idea of what being a model entails.

oh, and sorry for the oy vey but between people posting things with comments such as "white features," "untainted foreign models," and "ghetto" U.S. ones i was a little exasperated. stereotype overload in my opinion but, no offence meant.

 

[ChristionCouture]

see this confuses me though cause don't all models have to be trained to be models? i mean girls don't just walk into an agency and start work immediately. well not most. and plus people who don't know much about the fashion industry already have a preconceived idea of what a high fashion model is which is most of the time the wrong idea. i think it's just the girls you attracted maybe?

You can try to train a dog to walk like a snail, but it's always going to end up walking the fast pace it's naturally accustomed to. You can dress a drug addict in haute couture, but at the end of the day, they're still a drug addict at core. A lot of American black people have strong personalities that cannot be transformed. I believe that a lot of traits associated with unassimilated black Americans are bad and unacceptable to the people they are trying to get hired by. They don't share the same values. They don't share the same standards. How do we expect incompatible people to socialize with each other, yet alone work together in a field where one has the advantage of choosing whom they want to work with. Most high fashion is about luxury and the illusion of a certain social status and standard. Labels cater to high society and must uphold a specific image. I believe there is a better chance of Zolamada (made up stereotypical name) of becoming that assimilated "model" than Shaquita (made up stereotypical name) the diva. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but I've experienced this throughout my personal life. Whenever I would visit distant relatives on the lower end of the socioeconomic scale, I would be amazed at how naturally tacky and uncouth they were. I wanted nothing to do with them! I tried to change them and it didn't work. LOL I made an effort because I was actually one of them (a Black person). Why would Anglos make an effort?

PS. Brigitta, the first place I searched were the modeling agencies. The Black models were horrible! And FYI: Vogue is doing an online reality show about models. My show isn't a reality-style show.

 

[kahlilg]

you didn't want anything to do with your own family members because they were, in the end, the victims of society? i mean do you really think they were "tacky" and "uncouth" because they chose to be? how can you blame them for that?
futhermore no one said that it would be easy to use models of color. i think it would be hard to begin with. but my concern is that models of color that can be used aren't because they aren't white.

 

[ChristionCouture]

you didn't want anything to do with your own family members because they were, in the end, the victims of society? i mean do you really think they were "tacky" and "uncouth" because they chose to be? how can you blame them for that?
futhermore no one said that it would be easy to use models of color. i think it would be hard to begin with. but my concern is that models of color that can be used aren't because they aren't white.

I'm wellllllllllllllll aware that they are victims of oppression. I said I WANTED nothing to do with them. I didn't say I ended all communication with them. LOL I would love to work with the popular girls (Sessilee, Arelnis, Jordan, Naomi, Noemie, and etc.), but they may be a tad bit too expensive for my tight production budget right now.

 

[kahlilg]

well maybe instead of making them come to you why don't you go to them? try scouting on the streets? but idk maybe you don't have time for that.

 

[ChristionCouture]

Kahlilg and Birgitta, look what I found on nymag.com


"Daniel Peddle is regarded as a top casting director in the fashion industry. He's cast runway shows for 3.1 phillip lim, Alexander Queen's McQ, C'N'C' Costume National, Thakoon, YSL Homme, and Catherine Malandrino, among others. Now he's currently busy casting for Fashion Week, which is just over a week away (!!!). What does he look for? He tells Models.com he likes girls with "amazing personalities — who are well read, articulate and fun."

You can easily train someone to walk, but It would be pretty challenging to train someone to be well read and articulate. As far as the personality part is concerned....

 

[fashionista-ta]

Well, Christion, you promised frankness, and you certainly delivered. I wish you saw the people you're discussing with a bit more compassion, but be that as it may ...

You do bring up an interesting point, which is how class relates to the modeling world, something I hadn't given a lot of thought to. Btw, we do have a significant, and significantly growing, black middle class in this country.

While their strong personalities might make them not fit the mold you're looking for, I'm thrilled to hear that the women you're auditioning have them. I really feel that strong personalities are likely to stand them in much better stead in life than any characteristic that might make them good models.

Btw ... how is it that Agyness and her personality are so successful? Should a black model not be allowed to bring her persona to the table just like Agyness does? Naomi has a rather famously strong personality

I also wanted to mention that I have had some absolutely fascinating & profound conversations with people who could be classified as "white trash." (And I have relatives as well who could be placed in that category, and I'll tell you right now that they're not all that distant.) Class doesn't stand in the way of (nor does it guarantee) someone being intelligent, articulate, well-read, or wise.

 

[Cinthia]

i wonder if it's a demand/supply thing too. not a lot of black people are hired so black people in middle/high class prefer to take their chance in other careers.

 

[Fontenrose]

I can't imagine that there is any shortage of tall, th*n, lovely black American girls -- or black American girls who want to be models.

But on the speech/culture thing, isn't this the controversial thing that Bill Cosby was saying, that the speech/cultural patterns of many blacks separate them from the mainstream jobs? A non-standard accent just doesn't sound professional.

In modeling more successful black models come from the UK, Canada and countries other than the US. Like Jourdan or Liya. Or Naomi.

I am not sure that casting directors are seriously looking for personality when they see the girls in a casting lineup for a few minutes. Isn't that just something they like to say? However any little thing will turn them off, including an annoying voice or attitude.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ Not saying I completely disagree with Bill Cosby, but isn't the whole point of models that they don't talk??

Jill Nelson's Volunteer Slavery is an interesting read, and she makes some interesting points about the standards to which black people are often held, as well as about cultural differences that can lead to severe misunderstandings. I believe she says that she was a child raised by parents who owned in the Hamptons, and was considered just good enough by (white) people who rented there ...

An "annoying" voice or attitude kind of begs the question, What do people find annoying? Is it merely unfamiliar or different, or it is actually unprofessional?

And I understand why a designer would not choose a fit model with a body at all out of the mainstream (duh), but why would a slightly different body be a problem on the runway, as long as it's paired with the right garment?

Or are you really saying you want the chocolate-covered Barbie model?

 

[birgitta]

well, ChristianCouture, perhaps some of these girls are new and no one has bothered to help them develop as models. i still can't bring myself to agree that there are not any articulate, pleasant models of Asian or African descent. perhaps prior to fashion week is just a difficult time to search but regardless of the reason i wish you luck in your search. maybe you shouldn't write off certain models just
yet though.

 

[kimair]

as a black woman, i understand what christioncouture is talking about (being articulate, well-mannered)...
my parents always instilled this in me...to not talk in slang and use complete words/thoughts, as it would help me throughout school and in the workplace...
what's interesting is the backlash that comes from that...in some circles you are considered too assimilated or *gasp* abandoning your roots...

ta-ta, it's not to say that you can't bring your personality to it...
i do it all the time at work...but i'm still always professional and speak correctly and intelligently...
naomi may have an english accent, but her grammar is usually spot on...

 

[birgitta]

I just think it’s a bit of a mass generalisation since, as some have said, people of similar backgrounds don’t necessarily have similar upbringings or even accents, even in the U.S. everyone’s experiences are different, but most people I’ve encountered have the ability to alter any of those things if they feel so inclined, thick accents, in your face personalities, especially if a job is at stake. It just all depends on whether they feel it is compromising themselves in a way or whether it is a change for the better. i’ve even met people from different cultures who show practically no remnant or evidence of an accent or “foreign”culture after a year or so of immersion, even less if the change is intentional. So, the idea that someone who is from the same country ,but has a slightly different culture because they aren’t as privileged, cannot learn different behaviours seems slightly off to me. And many Euro descent models don’t seem to be the most articulate even if they seem like pleasant people, but their modeling is usually the first thing one notices, not their mannerisms.

 

[ChristionCouture]

Birgitta, it's not as simple as you put it. Just think about all of the bad traits and mannerisms that a lot (not all) of black Americans (fact from a black person that has encountered thousands of blacks in my life) possess. The way they walk. The way they talk. The way they hold their mouth. The way they roll their eyes when a shoot is too long. The way they stand. The volume at which they speak. The way they smack their teeth when things are running a little late or something is bothering them. Their confrontational and masculine approach when something doesn't go as planned (something Naomi and Noemie have been accused of LoL). I've worked with black models that have had all of these bad traits. I've tried to change them but I realized I'm fighting a lost cause. It's just who they are and it's just too much to change. People have said that Noemie Lenoir is ghetto and not well spoken in her native language (French). I think certain things that certain black people are faced with may have an impact on who they are as a person. And of course, there are always exceptions to the rule. But if Black model A has faced racism throughout her life, I'm pretty sure she will be a little more defensive and confrontational than what her white employees are used to or will accept. Oh and I forgot to mention that we must admit that there are white people that just don't like black people. They do exist.

 

[kahlilg]

honestly i am not and will never advocate that black people should just change their attitude. so condescending, especially when most of our brothers and sisters aren't getting the care they need. ChristionCouture, this is your experience. i don't work with models and probably never will, but still i cannot sit here and seem to acknowledge that this is black people/ people of colors problem. it's not. it's the problem of those who have treated it us like 2nd rate citizens since we were brought to these shores and i am expect them to fix it.