Racial Diversity In Modeling

[ChristionCouture]

I wouldn't really call her popular

 

[kahlilg]

well then neither is sessilee really...

and i have a question when you said

We comment amongst each other but never go to the people responsible for what we see on stands and on runways.

aren't you responsible for the models on the show? and we're talking to you... idk i get the feeling that your almost trying to make an excuse as to why black models aren't being used.

 

[fashionista-ta]

Well, that's why the industry is in the position it's in now. They have to seek for black talent outside of America's bad influence. I can only think of two popular black American models right now. One from LA and one from Philly. And like I said before, there is always an exception to the rule.

So now American black culture is categorically "bad"?

I guess I have a problem with agreeing that whatever prejudices a casting director may have against black models who don't speak like Ivy League graduates are OK. Surely all white models don't meet that standard ... I understand there are some who are quite intelligent & well-spoken & even aristocratic, but surely not every white model who walks down a runway meets this "standard" ... I understand it may be the ideal & helpful for becoming a super. But aren't we talking about the chorus line here? I have certainly worked with many people who represented traditional African-American culture, and it didn't stop them from doing their (non-modeling) jobs. I find it hard to believe that modeling is so very different from the rest of real life ...

 

[Fontenrose]

Lancome Adds Sosa to Model Roster

Quote:
Lancôme has added an up-and-comer to its stable of spokesmodels: Arlenis Sosa, a 19-year-old former student discovered in her home country of the Dominican Republic this past April.

wwd.com

fer19dog in Arlenis's thread

 

[Fontenrose]

Jason Wu included Lakshmi, Arlenis, Chanel, Du Juan, Liu Wen -- what a casting!


pmc via ediewharhol

 

[ChristionCouture]

So now American black culture is categorically "bad"?

I guess I have a problem with agreeing that whatever prejudices a casting director may have against black models who don't speak like Ivy League graduates are OK. Surely all white models don't meet that standard ... I understand there are some who are quite intelligent & well-spoken & even aristocratic, but surely not every white model who walks down a runway meets this "standard" ... I understand it may be the ideal & helpful for becoming a super. But aren't we talking about the chorus line here? I have certainly worked with many people who represented traditional African-American culture, and it didn't stop them from doing their (non-modeling) jobs. I find it hard to believe that modeling is so very different from the rest of real life ...

This is what I don't understand.If you are an African American, your culture should be American Culture. What exactly is African American culture to you?

 

[thejarc]

The only black models I know are Mimi Roche, Naomi, Liya, Alek and Chanel.


Probably many russian customers can identify themselves better with slowenian models....

 

[kahlilg]

This is what I don't understand.If you are an African American, your culture should be American Culture. What exactly is African American culture to you?

WAIT hold up? are you trying to say that since i am black but american i have to assimilate totally into american culture? because that's what it sounds like to me. since black people were allowed their freedom in north america there has been "african-american culture" and don't sit up here and try to deny that. i'm really confused by your statement.

EDIT

ok let me go back. what i think you meant was that since i am black and in america (i'm just using myself as an example cause it's easier) the culture i am a part of is strictly american culture. but i do not agree with that. there is a difference between how different ethnicities act in america. now going back to what i said to you before, i feel like you are forgetting the reasons why we act differently. i'm not saying you should or anybody should hire someone with a bad attitude, all i want to say is that there is definitley a reason why black people have this stereotype about bieng mad and angry. i believe it is because black people were, and sometimes still today, expected to shut up about racism and inequality. (hence the phrase "racism card".) my point is i don't think you are grasping that fact. that's why i think your statements are coming off really condescending.

 

[happytrail]

i'd like to see more black and asian models opening and closing shows, especially in milan and paris, but unfortunately i don't see it happening this season.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ I think very few people are going to hire someone they perceive as angry for most jobs. But to me that's not what we're talking about here ... we're talking about accent and mannerisms, etc., correct?

 

[kahlilg]

^ I think very few people are going to hire someone they perceive as angry for most jobs. But to me that's not what we're talking about here ... we're talking about accent and mannerisms, etc., correct?

yeah i know i just wanted to mention the bad attitude thing. the same thing i said could be applied to mannerisms and what not though.

 

[exmachina]

I haven't really been following the shows but I just watched rock and republic and I must say that they did a great job of displaying a diverse cast while still conveying a specific look. The idea that diversity undermines a designer's vision is BS... but if you're hanging out in this tread you probably already knew that.

 

[Northern Star]

Thank the lord that Rock & Republic (and DSquared are another) that almost always have a multi-cultural cast at their shows.B)

 

[fashionista-ta]

yeah i know i just wanted to mention the bad attitude thing. the same thing i said could be applied to mannerisms and what not though.

Well, but ... a bad attitude is a totally legit reason for not hiring anyone of any race. Discrimination on the basis of accent, most particularly for a job where people don't open their mouths is ... discrimination.

 

[kahlilg]

oh no i totally agree that's why i said

i'm not saying you should or anybody should hire someone with a bad attitude,

what i meant was there's definitely more to just simply having an attitude. and more than that, i feel like black people are "guilty until proven innocent" kind of thing. and once we do act rudely, or sometimes just not be smiling or something, we are judged harsher because we have this stereotype that follows us around. i understand what you are saying fashionista-ta and i completely agree with you. i just wanted to make the point that 1.) different ethnicities act differently and 2.) it's not fair to simply right off black people who are upset for a valid reason as having an "attitude."
http://www.thefashionspot.com/forums/f96/member.php?u=17228

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ I think we are on the same page except for point #2. I know it may not seem fair, right, or whatever, but when it comes time to hire someone, I am not going to knowingly hire someone with a huge chip on their shoulder, because I know it's going to be disruptive and cause all kinds of issues. It's hard enough to get things done without that. I have worked with several people like that though, so they do get hired

All kinds of people can be eaten up with resentment for all kinds of reasons. I have been there myself. That is the individual's issue to solve, though, and they are well advised to keep it far, far away from a hiring situation ...

I recently was in a situation where I was a volunteer and working with several young women who are in a transitional program for former foster children. All of them clearly had issues, and no wonder. But two of them clearly mistrusted me because I was white. Their attitudes quite literally prevented me from helping them as I could have otherwise. I didn't like that in the very least, but there wasn't a great deal I could do about it. They had an MO all ready to go ... I coudn't see any way for me to break through those very substantial defenses in a single evening.

This is relatively unusual, I think, but I see a fair amount of it as I volunteer with what I guess you could call "at risk" populations ...

 

[ChristionCouture]

WAIT hold up? are you trying to say that since i am black but american i have to assimilate totally into american culture? because that's what it sounds like to me. since black people were allowed their freedom in north america there has been "african-american culture" and don't sit up here and try to deny that. i'm really confused by your statement.

EDIT

ok let me go back. what i think you meant was that since i am black and in america (i'm just using myself as an example cause it's easier) the culture i am a part of is strictly american culture. but i do not agree with that. there is a difference between how different ethnicities act in america. now going back to what i said to you before, i feel like you are forgetting the reasons why we act differently. i'm not saying you should or anybody should hire someone with a bad attitude, all i want to say is that there is definitley a reason why black people have this stereotype about bieng mad and angry. i believe it is because black people were, and sometimes still today, expected to shut up about racism and inequality. (hence the phrase "racism card".) my point is i don't think you are grasping that fact. that's why i think your statements are coming off really condescending.

Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. You're so confrontational and defensive! I'm used to dealing with this sort of reaction from blacks, but I know that white people will not tolerate it! And I don't blame them! If we want Blacks to be seen in a positive light, we must learn how to control our emotions and act in a civilized manner. You had to edit your last response because you based your response purely on emotion. A lot (not all) of black people are not civilized. This is the dirty little secret that we don't want to admit. In the words of Oprah, it's "dirty laundry" and we need to clean it up. I'm still waiting for an answer to my question about this so-called "Black Culture." WHAT EXACTLY IS BLACK CULTURE??? I'm not sure what you mean by "Black Culture." I'm black and I honestly can't think of anything that would be considered White or Black culture. At the end of the day, you either get with the program or get thrown out.

 

[kahlilg]

i am mad. i am mad as **** and i wont sit here and deny it. don't ever, and i mean ever, claim that i am not civilized. do you know how many times non white people have been called non-civilized? i mean honestly the **** you are spitting is some of the most racist, ignorant, and just plain condescending **** i've ever heard. i can't believe you are quoting oprah you might as well quote bill cosby. i'm not going to sit here and promote this assimilation that you are. i'm not going to stop bieng angry until my problems are atleast heard. it's ****ing bull**** for you to say that we need to just suck it up. get over yourself.

and as for your second question black people have always had a sense of, idk, difference in america. do you not know about kwanzaa? i mean hello? and maybe you should look up the history of jazz? modern rock? hip hop? i mean and i'm just scratching the surface. is this to say that black people interests should solely be into this? no. what i am saying is that black people in america have been treated differently and as a result evolved "american black culture." it almost sounds like what you are saying is the only thing that differs from me and a white person is our skin color. and while that maybe true outside of culture and society, inside society i have been treated differently. therefore, i am experiencing life in america as a black man. and there are other black men in america. while our experiences may not be the same, i would still call that the black experience. a lot of us experience the same thing and i would include that into our culture.

you know what i'm so done with this thread. goodbye. if you want to contact me you can pm me or whatever but i doubt i will be coming back to this thread.

 

[jjbunny79]

... Can I put my two cents down abt the whole "African (American)/Black Attitude" thing even thought im not African?!

My question would simply be if all African American models, like seriously all of them, have the whole "attitude problem"; why can't we get African models, from Africa?

(I am pretty sure the industry can exploit these African girl as easily as they do to Eastern European girls, isn't it?!)
I have met many African people for last few years from various African countries and almost none of them have an attitude (not to mention my bf's highly sophisticated father, >.<); so why the agencies keep getting the "beaches"? I am pretty sure there is a nice, pretty, tall, slender African girl (could be from the States,too; you will never know) that is not a "beach". So where is all of the model scouts at?

(btw my bf's father is a Tigray-Tigrinya person, if anyone is interested to know.)

 

[Cinthia]

no you should come back. don't let people silence you. i think you're right. there are different cultures in america. white are majority so they don't realise there is a white culture. white is considered neutral and the other are races that have to assimililate and be "neutra" and "normal" like them. non white have to speak double cultures all the time to be accepted: white that is consider normality and not a culture a race and their own "uncivilized" culture. that's not fair.

you can say the same thing about class.the lower class "culture" and mores are "uncivilized" and they need to become like the middle and upper classes. you must act like middle class white.