Racial Diversity In Modeling

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i am mad. i am mad as **** and i wont sit here and deny it. don't ever, and i mean ever, claim that i am not civilized. do you know how many times non white people have been called non-civilized? i mean honestly the **** you are spitting is some of the most racist, ignorant, and just plain condescending **** i've ever heard. i can't believe you are quoting oprah :lol: you might as well quote bill cosby. i'm not going to sit here and promote this assimilation that you are. i'm not going to stop bieng angry until my problems are atleast heard. it's ****ing bull**** for you to say that we need to just suck it up. get over yourself.

and as for your second question black people have always had a sense of, idk, difference in america. do you not know about kwanzaa? i mean hello? and maybe you should look up the history of jazz? modern rock? hip hop? i mean and i'm just scratching the surface. is this to say that black people interests should solely be into this? no. what i am saying is that black people in america have been treated differently and as a result evolved "american black culture." it almost sounds like what you are saying is the only thing that differs from me and a white person is our skin color. and while that maybe true outside of culture and society, inside society i have been treated differently. therefore, i am experiencing life in america as a black man. and there are other black men in america. while our experiences may not be the same, i would still call that the black experience. a lot of us experience the same thing and i would include that into our culture.

you know what i'm so done with this thread. goodbye. if you want to contact me you can pm me or whatever but i doubt i will be coming back to this thread.

If you were a model, this type of response would be unacceptable. You are only proving my case with each post that you make. Why lower yourself by resorting to the usage of profanity? Are you unable to express yourself without jumping up and down? After all of that, you still have not answered my questions about this so-called "black culture." You mentioned American music that just about everyone listens to. Hip hop is a subculture that hasn't even been around that long. Kwanzaa? Kwanzaa is a ritual that was started in the late 60's and held for one week each year. A marketing research study was done and only 1.6% of black people surveyed planned on celebrating it. Black culture does not exist. Black people live all over the world and do not share simply one culture. Unless there is some black polygamous sect that I am unaware of, African Americans do not participate in anything other than what is considered American culture.
 
... Can I put my two cents down abt the whole "African (American)/Black Attitude" thing even thought im not African?!

My question would simply be if all African American models, like seriously all of them, have the whole "attitude problem"; why can't we get African models, from Africa?

I would just like to clarify that the idea that all African-Americans have "attitudes" that make them unemployable, in any field whatsoever, is simply, categorically, false.

I also want to acknowledge that there is a huge amount of pain in the African-American community. It has been building for centuries; it is not just a result (and I think not primarily a result) of events during our lifetimes. It is absolutely a serious problem, and all of us in this country are affected by the history of injustice it is a reminder of whether we know it or not. I agree with kahlilg that it should be heard, and I would like to see it healed. I have great hope that the next few years will be a time of great healing in our country. There are signs already that things are getting better.

kahlilg, I hope you'll continue to participate in this thread. You are leaving just as it gets really interesting! ;)

You are also correct that African-American culture is very important. It brought us jazz, R&B, and in many ways it brought us rock and roll. It's brought us great music, great food, great literature, the civil rights movement, and a number of great and highly-evolved leaders. If there is an implication here that it is nothing more than bling and an alternative form of English, that is definitely wrong.
 
why can't we get African models, from Africa?

i think part of the reason we don't see as many models of African descent is that many people do not acknowledge the fact of that people of African descent are indeed beautiful. Africa's the 2nd largest continent ( even though many westerners seem to address it as a monolithic country) , and it's people are said to have the most genetic variety of any part of the world by most geneticists, but many people act as if Africans in a homogeneous, caricature-like way, when in truth Africans come in all shapes , sizes , and phenotypes. I think the same thing goes for model's of Asian descent. In a form, I'm quite glad they don't scout in different countries in Africa. although I would like to see more African model's, there are already too many ways Africans and their resources are being exploited, for providing the next expendable fashion find to be a top concern. But it's not as though places with African diasporan's aren't being scouted. For example, Brazil is a country that is said to have the 2nd largest percentage of people of African descent, behind Nigeria only, some people even say the number is underestimated, but i can think of very few Afro-descent models in the constant flow of Brazilian new faces. Most places in north and south America and in Western Europe have a large population of African diasporan's, so i think its more a matter of prospective model's not being given a chance more so than not being available.
 
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I would just like to clarify that the idea that all African-Americans have "attitudes" that make them unemployable, in any field whatsoever, is simply, categorically, false.

I also want to acknowledge that there is a huge amount of pain in the African-American community. It has been building for centuries; it is not just a result (and I think not primarily a result) of events during our lifetimes. It is absolutely a serious problem, and all of us in this country are affected by the history of injustice it is a reminder of whether we know it or not. I agree with kahlilg that it should be heard, and I would like to see it healed. I have great hope that the next few years will be a time of great healing in our country. There are signs already that things are getting better.

fashionista-ta, i understading what you mean. i know that not all African American have that so call "attitude" (this is like saying all Asian American are sumbissive, which is clearly not the case); and if my question and whatever i wrote underneath is offensive because of wording or anyother reason, i would apologized ahead.

I am not very insterested in making this entire issue too Americanized. I am not saying there is anything wrong with it, but I hope we can extent out horizon a lil bit more and also discuss about how other African models is doing
in other places in the world.

I have a grip of understanding about racism that many African American went through; but please, do not forget the Scramble of Africa and the actual African people, from various African countries, that lives out of the States.

(Racism is a global thing, and it make my head hurts more when people try to bring the whole "American Racial Politics" into the racism)

*end of dicussion >.<*
 
style

Here is Georgie Badiel closing 3.1 Philip Lim. I think she's gorgeous & regal & so striking & I love how they put her in a dress that shows off her fabulous strong shoulders.

00410m.jpg
 
NYFW was good in terms of diversity but Milan has been horrible! Armani, Gianfranco, and Prada had either none or just one black model. Oh well the all black Italian Vogue issue was just fake publicity things haven't changed.
 
What about Asian models? People keep talking about how underrepresented black models are but what about the state of Asian models? Has there been any Asian models who've appeared on the cover of Vogue Italia? Black models have graced Vogue Italia's covers but Asians? No? What about Vogue Paris (with the exception of Du Juan who had to SHARE a cover with Gemma; obviously she wasn't the star of the cover since she wasn't in the centre)? Have we seen an Asian model gracing the European Vogues as an only girl? Major solo campaigns starring Asian models as only girls or in Gucci, LV, Versace or Dior? Not really right? Maybe Du Juan was lucky to be in LV with Daria and also Roberto Cavalli and also in the recent David Yurman campaign but when are we going to see other Asian models getting a fair share of the pie? Yeah we had that Moschino campaign with Asians only but so what? That's it? Not even Ai Tominaga, whom I think is one of the greatest Asian models out there got to grace Vogue Paris. How unfair. And I think girls like Han Hye Jin deserve to be on the cover eventhough I don't find her attractive but her features are definitely unique and photogenic.

Anyway boo to Miuccia for not using an Asian girl this time...I never liked Hye Rim Park but it was great when she used her in Prada for a few times but then I guess Hye didn't fit the Prada mould this time for Miuccia. Unfortunate really. And I've noticed how the Asian girls didn't do really well in Milan for strange reasons. Du Juan seems to have disappeared, Liu Wen and Lakshmi are doing ok but not stellar, eventhough Liu had a crazy time in NY doing lots of shows. Don't really know about the status of the others - Hyoni, Dai, Shu, etc because I don't really keep up to date about their careers but I don't think they did great either. I didn't see an Asian model in Gianfranco Ferre either. At least Chanel Iman was in it to represent black models.

I do hope that the trend doesn't continue in Paris because that would be worrying. And what happened to models like Pei Bei and Mo Wandan who also did great last season? Why'd they disappear this season? Besides that, I think that scouts should go to India and other Asian countries more often to find fresh talent. I mean, I've seen India Fashion Week on TV and I've seen models that are just as beautiful, tall and high fashion as Lakshmi Menon yet still "Indian" looking. And I think that it's about time that model scouts go to Japan to find the next Japanese top model...there hasn't been many Japanese models this time around and none of them has achieved the level that Ai attained during her time...Anne's time is pretty much up while Tao isn't that major with designers....I want to see more Japanese models instead of Chinese and Korean models. No offence...I just want more diversity...and also more Indian models...there must be at least another 1 or 2 Indians out there that have the potential to be as big as Ujjwala and Lakshmi.

Another thing...I think Vogue Italia SHOULD have an issue dedicated solely to Asian models...like the Black issue...If black models can get it, why can't Asian models also get it? It's about time that an Asian model graces the cover of Vogue Italia, for once at least.
 
^ Kinda agree.

I don't think Han or Hye have done a single show in Milan yet. And I believe Du's only been in 3 shows. :blink:
 
NYFW was good in terms of diversity but Milan has been horrible! Armani, Gianfranco, and Prada had either none or just one black model. Oh well the all black Italian Vogue issue was just fake publicity things haven't changed.

Believe I saw at least three at Bottega.

I wouldn't say it was fake at all ... I would say that the editor of Italian Vogue and the designers you mention must be different people :p
 
Irving, just wanted to note that Chanel Iman is also Asian ... but of course you do have a point. I imagine it is somewhat challenging to find Asian women tall enough to model ... but of course that doesn't explain why those who are already models aren't being used more.
 
NYFW was good in terms of diversity but Milan has been horrible! Armani, Gianfranco, and Prada had either none or just one black model. Oh well the all black Italian Vogue issue was just fake publicity things haven't changed.

Things have changed. There's one black girl in most shows as opposed to none at all in previous seasons. To expect anything more than that, especially in Milan is just insane.
 
^ Perhaps we can expect more while still celebrating all progress, and maintaining our sanity ;)
 
Dissapointed with Marni, Prada although they did give a slot to my Jou Jou bean, Armani:doh:, But I do see a slightest improvement ! Moschino (Arlenis, Chanel, Jou) did a great job. As did Ermano Scervino (Sess, Jou, Chanel:woot:). And some others that I cant think of. D&G (Chanel, Jou, Lakshmi, Ariel:woot::woot:) Bottega (Arlenis(o), Chanel, Jou, Georgie, Du!!!)
Here is hoping for Versace. I used to love when he had Omi, Veronica, Beverly Peele, Karen Alexander etc all on his runway.
 
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Listen my original post had mentioned just one black model in either gianfranco, or pradan and none at armani. Hat's off to other milanese designers for using one or more, but as far as I'm concerned it's virtually no variety of beauty. The eastern european girls are no longer special because they all on the same lineup, therefore, they all look alike.
 
I think Milan has been pretty boring this season which is nothing new. We've seen lots of blank faces and blondes everywhere. not diversity at all except a couple of designers whose cast was somewhat diverse. I really dont understand why they dont understand that a cast of diverse models is more fun to watch plus make the clothes look way more interesting and makes the show look more reslistic this world is not made up of white blue eyed people. When i mean diversity i dont just mean black girls i mean tall gorgeous girls with exotic features of different ethnicities asians, blacks, latinas, Indians also girls that are mixed I find very appeling. The perfect cast of models in my opinion would be like this.

Lashkmi Menon
Joudan dunn
Arlenis
Liu Wen
Du Juan
Wanessa Milhomen
Bruna Tenorio
Marina Perez
Sheila Marquez
Eniko
Tanya
Karlie Kloss
Isabeli Fontana
Austria Ulloa
Daul Kim
MariaCarla Boscono
Hye Rim Park
Han Hye Jin
Doutzen Kroes
Selina Kang
Omhayra Mota
Cecilia Mendez
Masha
Tiiu Kuik
Freja Beha
Abbey Lee
Yasmin Warsame
Stam
Raquel Zimmerman

This will be what I would call a diversed cast in which everysingle model looks different from each other and has a distinct look. It would be great to see a cast of model like this.
 
What about Asian models? People keep talking about how underrepresented black models are but what about the state of Asian models? Has there been any Asian models who've appeared on the cover of Vogue Italia? Black models have graced Vogue Italia's covers but Asians? No? What about Vogue Paris (with the exception of Du Juan who had to SHARE a cover with Gemma; obviously she wasn't the star of the cover since she wasn't in the centre)? Have we seen an Asian model gracing the European Vogues as an only girl? Major solo campaigns starring Asian models as only girls or in Gucci, LV, Versace or Dior? Not really right? Maybe Du Juan was lucky to be in LV with Daria and also Roberto Cavalli and also in the recent David Yurman campaign but when are we going to see other Asian models getting a fair share of the pie? Yeah we had that Moschino campaign with Asians only but so what? That's it? Not even Ai Tominaga, whom I think is one of the greatest Asian models out there got to grace Vogue Paris. How unfair. And I think girls like Han Hye Jin deserve to be on the cover eventhough I don't find her attractive but her features are definitely unique and photogenic.

Anyway boo to Miuccia for not using an Asian girl this time...I never liked Hye Rim Park but it was great when she used her in Prada for a few times but then I guess Hye didn't fit the Prada mould this time for Miuccia. Unfortunate really. And I've noticed how the Asian girls didn't do really well in Milan for strange reasons. Du Juan seems to have disappeared, Liu Wen and Lakshmi are doing ok but not stellar, eventhough Liu had a crazy time in NY doing lots of shows. Don't really know about the status of the others - Hyoni, Dai, Shu, etc because I don't really keep up to date about their careers but I don't think they did great either. I didn't see an Asian model in Gianfranco Ferre either. At least Chanel Iman was in it to represent black models.

I do hope that the trend doesn't continue in Paris because that would be worrying. And what happened to models like Pei Bei and Mo Wandan who also did great last season? Why'd they disappear this season? Besides that, I think that scouts should go to India and other Asian countries more often to find fresh talent. I mean, I've seen India Fashion Week on TV and I've seen models that are just as beautiful, tall and high fashion as Lakshmi Menon yet still "Indian" looking. And I think that it's about time that model scouts go to Japan to find the next Japanese top model...there hasn't been many Japanese models this time around and none of them has achieved the level that Ai attained during her time...Anne's time is pretty much up while Tao isn't that major with designers....I want to see more Japanese models instead of Chinese and Korean models. No offence...I just want more diversity...and also more Indian models...there must be at least another 1 or 2 Indians out there that have the potential to be as big as Ujjwala and Lakshmi.

Another thing...I think Vogue Italia SHOULD have an issue dedicated solely to Asian models...like the Black issue...If black models can get it, why can't Asian models also get it? It's about time that an Asian model graces the cover of Vogue Italia, for once at least.

Japanese models don't see the need to go international.Japan has a huge domestic market.There are over 100,000 magazines in Japan alone. Also, Japanese models are in huge demand in Asian markets like Hongkong, Taiwan,China so there isn't a monetary need to walk the catwalks of Milan.Indian models usually turn to acting in films, in fact many North Indian and South Indian actresses were former models. Or they become interior and fashion designers.
 
Great article from the observer !

source : http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/nov/02/bethann-hardison-black-models

It's been the biggest fashion story of the year and it's had nothing to do with harem pants, the coat versus the cape, or the alluring comeback of the brogue. An industry not known for its crises of confidence has been forced to ask itself some uncomfortable questions. Might there be something nearing apartheid inside the pages of the glossy magazines and on the runways of the international designer collections? Is fashion racist?
The debate - some say long overdue - would not have been kick-started without a woman called Bethann Hardison. The first black saleswoman in the Garment District of New York in the Sixties and a runway model in the Seventies, she spent the Eighties and Nineties as one of the few black women with her own modelling agency (for black and white clients). She's so celebrated in the business that she's known mostly by her first name only, like Naomi and Iman, to each of whom she also happens to be a long-time confidante and mentor.


Over the past 14 months she's held campaign meetings in New York to speak out about a subject that has been largely taboo in the fashion industry. These are protest groups like no other - a cross between a rumbustious church service and the coolest party you have ever been to. Here, the likes of Naomi Campbell, Liya Kebede, Iman, Tyson Beckford and Veronica Webb squeeze into a room with some of the fashion world's biggest players such as André Leon Talley, editor-at-large of American Vogue and designer Vera Wang, as well as casting agents, stylists and representatives from the modelling agencies.
At each meeting, Hardison sits at the front and beckons people she knows to stand up and speak. 'I knew I could make things happen,' she says. 'I knew I could make the rest of the industry feel self-conscious about what was going on.' Over the months her audiences revealed a fashion white-out - design houses that hadn't used a black model for a decade; issue after issue of American Vogue without a single black model on the fashion pages. Casting agents who stipulate 'No ethnics' this season. Magazine editors who say black covers don't sell. Caption writers who get the few black models who are successful mixed up. Designers who, out of a total of 30 models, use only two who are black because, 'If it's more than two it becomes a Black Thing'. Black models paid less than their white counterparts. As Iman said at one of the early groups: 'In any other industry it would be racism and you'd be taken to court for it.'


Hardison had actually sold her agency and stepped out of fashion, preferring, she says, to lie in a hammock in Mexico and dance salsa with pretty skinny Latino boys. (She is, it swiftly transpires, not a typical sixtysomething. She won't tell me her exact age. 'Not even my doctor knows that!' she hoots.) It was Naomi Campbell who persuaded her to come out of retirement to organise the events. 'Every couple of months she'd ring me and say, "There are no black girls out there. You've got to do something!"'
Hardison was in a unique position. She'd retired, which meant she had nothing to gain financially. She knew everyone. She was respected and well liked in a business renowned for being fickle and as ingrained with ego and jealousy as a designer logo on a leather handbag. Eventually she decided to act. She emailed Iman. 'Did you realise that, over the past decade, black models have been reduced to a category? Call me.'
We sit in her small apartment near Bryant Park in New York, a short walk from the Garment District where she started out working for a button company. Paintings, mostly of black women, line the walls; there's a large framed poster from Andy Warhol's American Indian Series. She is, she tells me, exhausted. Something to do with the fact that yesterday she held another campaign meeting, and that she's fasting because it is the month of Ramadan.

What irks her most about the lack of diversity on the catwalks is the fact that 'we'd had it before and it had disappeared'. In the late 70s and early 80s, she recalls, on the back of the black civil-rights movement, catwalks and magazines were often more diverse than they are now; black models were the stars.

'Once you've climbed to the top of the mountain you don't expect to be back at the bottom again. It's like once you've seen Paris it's hard to go back to the farm. We had been there. We had achieved all of this' - she sits up straighter, tilting her chin imperiously and I catch a glimpse of how arresting she must have been as a 20-something woman striding down a runway for Oscar de la Renta or Halston - 'and we'd disappeared'.
Casual observers might wonder why this issue is important, why anyone cares who's wearing a £2,500 coat in a magazine fashion spread or on a catwalk since most of us will never be able to afford it anyway. According to Hardison: 'Fashion should be a reflection of society. I want my industry to be as modern as the next one. And my industry is the least modern of them all. Fashion isn't just about the way a dress moves.' The concern is that a generation of girls, both black and white, will grow up thinking there is only one - white - benchmark for beauty.
It seems astonishing to think that, in two days' time, America may elect its first black president, but the editor of a glossy magazine might still think twice about putting a beautiful black woman on the front cover. Or even, indeed, on the inside pages, thanks to the current fascination with celebrity that means a famous person (usually a white, fake-tanned one) bags the cover slot. Thus the number of new, well-known black or Asian models has shrunk to a handful: Jourdan Dunn, Chanel Iman, Sessilee Lopez, Georgie Badiel. On Forbes magazine's 2007 list of the 15 top-earning models, only one - Liya Kebede - was black.
Trying to work out why fashion seems to have gone backwards on diversity is complex.
Everyone blames everyone else - model agencies blame casting directors, magazine editors blame readers, designers blame model agencies. The reasons range from the aesthetic to the more insidious.
'I don't think in terms of black and white,' stylist Katie Grand tells me. 'I just think about who is going to look best in the clothes.' The fashion designer Katharine Hamnett claims to be baffled by the situation. 'The strange thing is that Caucasian girls actually got the short straw. Very few of them are model material. Black girls and Indian girls have far better faces and far better figures than white girls, period. I remember taking my kids to India and looking out of the bus window and saying, "My God, this is like a model casting". Why white girls remain so popular is a mystery to me, whether it's because consumers are mostly white, or aspire to be white, I don't know.'
In America, where 30 per cent of the population is non-white and where black women spend a colossal $20 billion on fashion and cosmetics, the issue is particularly sensitive. Other American media, including some hit television dramas, reflect a society that is racially mixed, but the fashion industry remains as pale as a partially cooked chicken drumstick. American Vogue, with a readership of two million, has, in particular been criticised for its scarcity of black images.
'We still have reactionary forces in this country,' says Veronica Webb, one of the most successful black American models in the Eighties and the first to land a major cosmetics contract for Revlon. 'And they are part of our power base. It's our national ailment. To be told "no" simply because of your colour means you are screwed ... And it wasn't even so bad for me because I am very mixed - part black, part African, part Latino.'
Nevertheless she recalls being turned down for a job for a leading French design house. 'The photographer, who was a friend, told me the client didn't want their accessories to become status symbols in the black community.'
I repeat this story to other black commentators in the industry and it's so typical they don't even sound surprised. Former model Beverly Bond has set up a group for black teenage girls called 'Black Girls Rock', an attempt to attach a slogan to the protest in the same way that 'Black is Beautiful' did in the Seventies. 'I've been to auditions where they automatically turn away the black girls without even looking at their books. It's racist. Imagine them behaving that way if I went to a job interview. It's amazing how far behind the fashion world is and how they can get away with being so blatant about it.'
She's given up modelling and become a well-known DJ instead. 'In the end black models get disheartened by it. No matter how hot you look, you are never going to be hot enough.'
In July, no doubt partly because of Bethann Hardison's campaign, Italian Vogue published what they called 'a black issue'. Every page of editorial was devoted to black beauty (while the advertising remained almost universally white). It included many of the best black models of the past 30 years, from ground-breakers like Pat Cleveland to Jourdan Dunn, said to be the new Naomi Campbell. (It seems there's little chance of there being room for two very successful black models at the same time.) The result was dazzling, although the website Gawker noted wryly: 'Never has the racism issue looked so stunning.'
For the first time in its history the magazine sold out, helped by a campaign on Facebook by black readers starved of the black image for long enough. The issue made newspaper headlines on both sides of the Atlantic. Commentators said it showed, finally, that the black image could sell. Critics noted that the majority of the models were pale-skinned, their hair often slicked back or hidden in a turban. True, black women don't all look the same - and thinking they do is part of the problem - but there were few images of darker skin and natural afro hair.
With a circulation of 145,000, Italian Vogue's readership is edgy and niche. Editor Franca Sozzani can afford to take risks. Rivals may have sat up and taken notice but most probably thought, 'Fabulous publicity. I wish I'd thought of that!' And then carried on as before.
Some felt that it was too little too late. 'There's nothing I like more than to see beautiful black people,' says Rebecca Carroll, author of Sugar in the Raw, about black teenage girls in America, 'but it felt a bit like black history month - "Now we've done it we don't have to worry about it again".' Black stylist and fashion editor Edward Enninful disagrees. He worked on the issue: 'I'd love it if fashion was 50/50 between black and white. But you have to think in terms of baby steps. In the end little drops make an ocean.'
Whenever designers and stylists enter the debate many talk about the cyclical nature of the business and how trends come and go. However, even if this is the case, change is achingly slow. Katie Grand worked on five shows last season and struggled to find the quality of black models she wanted. 'I think the agencies could do more,' she says. 'I saw every girl but there were very few black girls.' At Louis Vuitton, out of a total of 54 models, she used only four that were black.
At the recent collections in September Chanel still had no black models; nor did Yohji Yamamoto, Giorgio Armani, Marni or Jil Sander.
Balenciaga, Gucci, Christian Lacroix and Prada had one each. The vast majority used just two or three (at least, everyone said, it was better than last year) although many were only seen on the runway once. Jean Paul Gaultier and Vivienne Westwood, famously fans of a mixed cabine, broke through the 20 per cent ceiling.
One up-and-coming designer, Sophie Theallet, stood out - her whole show was made up of only black models. It was a success but, as she tells me: 'I told nobody beforehand - only my husband and the people closest to me at work. It was too risky. I didn't want anyone telling me it was not a good idea.' And this in a spring/summer collection when, as Bethann Hardison points out, black models traditionally do much better. 'The bright colours against the dark skin ...' she says, rolling her eyes. When she was an agent she used to ring up the design houses and say: 'You know we do wear clothes in winter time?'
 
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