Sean by Sean Combs: womens collection

[AlexN]

Yes, hating clothing does not equal hating a culture. This is getting way off track.

 

[orlem]

Sean John is important, I believe, because unlike Baby Phat or Fubu, Sean John, as a label, acts to raise the clothing mentality of hip-hop out of the ghetto, and it allows a young kid the option of looking classy without betraying one's roots to the hip-hop community.

a) Young girls don't wear spandex minidresses and coyote coats
b) Young girls who need such a push can't afford jeans in the hundreds
c) The world won't perceive the girls as looking classy and rising out of the ghetto, rather, they will perceive the girls as looking like expensive sluts

I appreciate your thought but it seems rationalizing/consumerism to call Sean John socially conscious.

 

[andrew]

I should have been more specific... 'classy' in opposition to the barrage of images they see on MTV where the guys wear chains and pants that two sizes too big, and the women where clothes two sizes too small. By that metric, Sean John is pretty damn classy.

Edit: I don't think Sean John is socially concious, inasmuch as the style is unlike what a lot of people see on the street. And there are levels of Sean John, ranging from what's in Bergdorf to stuff you can get in Bon*Macys (just an example). I wasn't commenting on these specific clothes as much as the context that many individuals in the hip-hop community look at clothes.

AlexN: I think, considering the tone of many comments I'm seeing here, talking about this is very much necessary. But if it's considered too far off-topic, then fine.

 

[Morningstar]

fourthly i dont like how he always thinks he needs to justify himself as a black man....WE KNOW UR BLACK DUDE....... so what just because he's sucessful and black?.....come on.....you arent the only one...

Jesus, I guess some people don't understand there is still racism out there. The whole point he makes his blackness a issue is because how often do you here or see black men who have accomplished what he has done? Personally, regardless of how his clothes look I still appreciates the fact that he has made an impact in various areas, including fashion. How many top designers are there out there that are recognized who also happen to be black? I can only think of three off hand excluding Mr. Combs. Tracy Reese, Patrick Robinson and the head designer of Givenchy, Ozwald Boateng.

 

[Neo_Classic]

This thread is sad. Anyway... I don't really care for it but it's not bad. I liked this one but of course it's plain but still nice.

 

[Oria]

fifthly he obviously wants his ex wife back but wont commit because it will put a damper on his pimp daddy image

He's never been married. If you mean Misa (Justin's mom), the woman is married. The only woman I ever see him (publically) with is Kim.

 

[travolta]

Yes, hating clothing does not equal hating a culture. This is getting way off track.

maybe not directly...and this is not to imply that you are specificially at fault for this. in any case, i'm glad this is being brought up. there seems to sharply drawn lines about what is considered 'fashionable' when we all know it is purely subjective...how is buying john galliano any different in the end -- or any high end designer who is raking in the big bucks? i can see both 'sides' have valid points, what's the harm in examining this further esp. when there are such strong opinions?

 

[Oria]

maybe not directly...and this is not to imply that you are specificially at fault for this. in any case, i'm glad this is being brought up. there seems to sharply drawn lines about what is considered 'fashionable' when we all know it is purely subjective...how is buying john galliano any different in the end -- or any high end designer who is raking in the big bucks? i can see both 'sides' have valid points, what's the harm in examining this further esp. when there are such strong opinions?

I happen to agree about the subjectivity of it all. Everyone will tell you what it is, but that doesn't work for me lol. I prefer to have my own feelings. What's fashion to one critic is crap to another, same could go for anything really. But I do like reading what others say it is, because it challenges me in some cases to ponder on a different level.

I also agree that at the very core of this field, there is still money lol. No matter how much we try to get away from it, there it is. I suppose what matter is the appearance of who is going after it and who isn't.

Just my musings, certainly not gospel.

 

[AlexN]

maybe not directly...

Disliking a collection of clothing does not inherently equal disliking a culture directly or indirectly. Do I dislike the three pictures in this thread? Yes. Do I dislike black culture? Not at all. Would I dislike this collection if I had no idea it was by Sean Combs, and perhaps thought it was by Italian designers such as Dolce & Gabbana or Donatella Versace? Yes. Do I dislike Italian culture? Not at all. Do I dislike the idea that Sean Combs is seemingly in fashion solely for business purposes, and not at all for artistic purposes? Yes, it irks me. Is that the reason I dislike the few pictures posted? No. Does Sean Combs' arguable role-model status make these designs any better? No.

It's a complete guessing game from person to person regarding the motives behind their comments. And assuming that there's underlying racial tension behind the majority of negative posts here would be ridiculous.

About the Galliano comment, sure all the designers rake in the big bucks, and everyone acknowledges that and often complains. And plenty of other designers receive a similar or worse treatment than Combs is getting here. Look at any DSquared2 thread. Nearly all negative comments, surely some of them more insulting than those in this thread. Is there a discussion of this sort in any of those threads? No. Nobody seems to care much when people insult DSquared2. Or Versace. But for some reason, since we're talking about Sean Combs, people are getting more worked up about negative comments, and I think reading more into a lot of them than need be.

 

[*Happiness*]

i actually cant stand Sean John

firstly we share the same first name

secondly he thinks hes some gangster mogul superstar

thirdly he tries too hard to venture into other things

fourthly i dont like how he always thinks he needs to justify himself as a black man....WE KNOW UR BLACK DUDE....... so what just because he's sucessful and black?.....come on.....you arent the only one...

fifthly he obviously wants his ex wife back but wont commit because it will put a damper on his pimp daddy image

I didn't know he was married before. Who was he married to?

 

[travolta]

i said i wasn't implying you were specifically at fault for this, nor did i say it was inherent, but i wanted to say the possibility is definately there, whether you personally feel this or not. people can have more complex reasons for 'hating' clothing than just for the reasons you mentioned, and it does vary, but it is most definately relevant to bring up. the difference between versace and sean john could be because of the culture he is from, and based on the comments on 'hip hop: what's the message?' thread, people still view the hip hop community in a very generalized, negative way. most mainstream hip hop, in my opinion, is not what i would prefer listening to, but it think that image gives a bad name for everything associated w/ hip hop..even aspects of chav culture. for instance, how is it that most people on the fashion spot can make fun of those who wearing baby phat as opposed to those who wear head to toe obscure high end fashion?? my previous comments may have been implying i was making fun of this, but i was more poking fun at sean comb's philosophy for dressing a women, and i'm sure as far as that goes, i share this opinion with you.

edit: chav culture --referring and agreeing w/ the comments mem made in 'hoodie' thread

 

[meme527]

i actually cant stand Sean John

firstly we share the same first name

secondly he thinks hes some gangster mogul superstar

thirdly he tries too hard to venture into other things

fourthly i dont like how he always thinks he needs to justify himself as a black man....WE KNOW UR BLACK DUDE....... so what just because he's sucessful and black?.....come on.....you arent the only one...

fifthly he obviously wants his ex wife back but wont commit because it will put a damper on his pimp daddy image

speaking of steaming piles of ****.......

 

[AlexN]

Travolta, saying "maybe not directly..." implies that you think it is so, directly or indirectly. If that wasn't your intention, cool. I wasn't specifically addressing you in my post, either.

 

[meme527]

after reading this entire thread, i don't even know where to start.

the fashion industry is a business. some in the industry are genius artists, some are deluded pretenders; some are entrepreneurs and producers and cheerleaders and handholders and drug-dealers and parasites; there are all kinds of roles to play. no need to be self-righteous about how superior your taste is, or how you are all about beauty. it might make you feel good, but it's a big world out there - not everybody likes what you like.

i don't think sean combs is an artist, either musically or sartorially. he's a PRODUCER. he "makes the band". he gets people together and makes things happen. he has enough talent to know what his talent is - making money - and he has enough vision to know what he wants to do with at least SOME of that money - inspire youth to dream big and achieve. especially youth who are oppressed by racism and poverty.

and i like sean combs for that.

sean combs uses fur. i don't like that. i don't like it when rick owens does it either, but i like his clothes otherwise.

some of combs' ideas about women seem pretty old-fashioned, in a typically heterosexist way.

i don't like the whole *bling* thing, because i despise conspicuous consumption, whether it is gold teeth or galliano. i think it encourages people to put too much emphasize on the external, to get rich or die/kill trying. and i feel the same whether it is a gang murder on the street, or an oil company-sponsored genocide.

so - his clothes are ordinary. his overall work is not. i don't believe that he is a saint, but i think he's done more to better the human community than most others ever will.

we should all be so ghetto.

meme

 

[travolta]

great post meme

 

[TheGloryOfThe80s]

I think we should all seperate the art from the artist. Not that I'm saying fashion is art or sean combs is an artist, thought I believe this is the most appropriate quip.


What I'm wondering is how this became a thread about people commenting on Sean Combs as a person or black culture

 

[StyleIsInUs]

don't like it!no sense to doin it, Sean!

 

[Arturo21]

You made such a brilliant comment Arturo!

I've seen the three pics posted in this thread and it's already enough I don't want to go through the pain of seeing his entire collection. Fashion is NOT in the eye of the beholder, beauty is. Fashion is a phenomen. Not anyone can create REAL fashion. Fashion is art, not some faux designer using his fame to shamelessly promote crap.

Thankyou, Kim And you too, really.

I second everything Kimkhuu and AlexN have said.

Andrew - Do not put Carol Christian Poell into this! He has no relation (and I praise the lord dearly for this) to Sean by Sean Combs.He is a true artist and doesn't create fashion to sell. He creates it because he is an artist. The difference is that he's an artist with originality that is basically unmatched even in the fashion business. P.Diddy may have talent, but not in this field. So what the heck is he doing designing? Just because he produces music does not mean he can be superman. I find it a shame that if he ran for president he would probably win.

Here at TFS, everything trendy is despised by quite a few of us,if you haven't noticed already..heh..I see it as the "anti-fashion"

So, frankly, we're glad not everyone is wearing Carol Christian Poell to be cool.

Please note we're not insulting P.Diddy or his music or hip-hop. This is not the music spot, either. There is a whole forum, for that. I even like some of his songs and I really liked what he did to promote youth voting. I have nothing against him music-wise or hip-hop or his race or his posse. I'm against him because he perverting the name of fashion.

 

[Arturo21]

Ok, this has gone too far. Forget Acid's post, everything else is simply fashion.

Hello everybody, I'm Latin American. I was born in Venezuela. Yes, that's in South America. I speak Spanish. I've been asked countless times if what I did for fun there was play around clotheless in the sand with sticks and rocks (No, it's just like living here, just different culturally and physically). I see the disgust here in the south used when referring to Mexicans, not to me, but to Mexicans and other poor latinos. I see it bubbling in some peoples hearts, the hatred. I may not be prejudiced, I may even be extremely well respected, but I am disgusted by the hatred. Same with the black race, I am disgusted by the hatred towards them. If anyone ever insults the black race, I am usually the first to bite their head off.

Let that be known, I am not racist.

Oh, btw, the Sean John women's runway collection FAll 2003 is up on www.seanjohn.com

 

[modelmama]

after reading this entire thread, i don't even know where to start.

the fashion industry is a business. some in the industry are genius artists, some are deluded pretenders; some are entrepreneurs and producers and cheerleaders and handholders and drug-dealers and parasites; there are all kinds of roles to play. no need to be self-righteous about how superior your taste is, or how you are all about beauty. it might make you feel good, but it's a big world out there - not everybody likes what you like.

i don't think sean combs is an artist, either musically or sartorially. he's a PRODUCER. he "makes the band". he gets people together and makes things happen. he has enough talent to know what his talent is - making money - and he has enough vision to know what he wants to do with at least SOME of that money - inspire youth to dream big and achieve. especially youth who are oppressed by racism and poverty.

and i like sean combs for that.

sean combs uses fur. i don't like that. i don't like it when rick owens does it either, but i like his clothes otherwise.

some of combs' ideas about women seem pretty old-fashioned, in a typically heterosexist way.

i don't like the whole *bling* thing, because i despise conspicuous consumption, whether it is gold teeth or galliano. i think it encourages people to put too much emphasize on the external, to get rich or die/kill trying. and i feel the same whether it is a gang murder on the street, or an oil company-sponsored genocide.

so - his clothes are ordinary. his overall work is not. i don't believe that he is a saint, but i think he's done more to better the human community than most others ever will.

we should all be so ghetto.

meme

Well said!!!