Sofia Coppola's Marie Antoinette

[Whitelinen]

There's a man (ie Francis Coppola) behind that coup. Credit where credit's due for breaking down gender barriers... so that's to Claire Denis and Chantal Akerman not Sofia.

That's true, so for being inaccurate.

 

[zembla]

I absolutely still love this movie...I saw it twice at the theater and have the DVD. It's so visually amazing...especially the birthday party...the cakes, the colors, the lifestyle was so fascinating.

I'm glad she zeroed in on what it was like to live in versailles rather than everything that was happening outside of it...because you truly get to see how isolated, pampered and ignorant Marie was to the outside world.

 

[dreamecho]

As the years go by, I become more and more disenchanted with Sofia. I so desperately want to love and be engrossed by her films...but how can I be obsessed with nothing? I'm all for whimsy, fantasy, subtlety, dreaminess, and even some opulence now and then, but only when there is substance behind them. Sofia doesn't bring the goods to back it up.

WhiteLinen, I'm with you on all your points in post #219. I despise the the "profound" quality people ascribe to her and her work. People seem to assume that just because she's classier and quieter than the glitzy, flashy, trashy Hollywood crowd, she must be some sort of intellectual. Not so. And it's not just what people think of her, it's what she thinks of her self. In various interviews she gives, she always has some pseudo-reflective, pseudo-witty comment. Big kudos to PrinceOfCats & Mullet for your thoughtful and informed opinions, especially Mullet's "feeding the candy" metaphor and POC's knowledge of film culture.

Maybe people have already brought this up, but the fact that this superficial film is so highly regarded really says a lot about today's youth & young adults.

 

[seahorseinstripe]

.

I dislike this film the more I think about it. Lost in Translation was a competent rip-off of Ozu: God alone knows what Marie Atoinette was an attempt at...

not only ozu, i think it also have the same mood with tsai ming liang movies...
i always thought of her a quentin tarantion in female version

i think rebecca miller is a better female director than sofia

 

[Harumi]

Mullet, I have to agree with this. And I am a sixteen-year-old girl, so this movie should supposedly be the best film I have ever seen, right?

Please do stop with this ageism. The film wasn't only appreciated by giggling teenyboppers. Some grown up critics and viewers liked it too.

Lost in Translation is a nice little advertisement for Tokyo and luxury hotels.

Is that all you saw in that movie? No emotion, no empathy? You must have been deadly bored then, because the emotional intensity of LIT is what makes it watchable. Otherwise it's so dull, no?

Well, the film was boring, pseudo-intellectual and plain awful.

I don't see the pseudo-intellectual part. I don't think Sofia's intent was to go all philosophical on us. If anything, she wanted to recreate an atmosphere. I can see how some people might think she has failed there and produced a sterile movie, but where is the intellectualism? Could you develop?

As for Sofia Coppola... kudos for her for being a woman in a male-oriented field. She's very good at creating cute cinematography.

It is rumored that her brother is actually mainly responsible for the cinematography. After seeing CQ, I would be inclined to believe it.

If she would make pretty films with candy-coloured costumes and pop culture references, I could say she is talented in her own genre, which is to make aesthetically pleasing films with beautiful - or pretty, maybe that's a better word - clothes and that's it. But she has to pretend to be something else --- and that's where she goes so wrong. She seems to think of herself as an intellectual, but honestly I have not seen it in her work yet. I think she seems to be quite naive, a pampered little girl who always gets praise [for nothing].

I see where you are coming from but why does what she (or those who hype her) says or thinks matter?
If you think her movies are pretty fluff then enjoy them as such. Unless pretty fluff give you stomachache then move on.
What I really don't understand is that detractors of the movie seem more angered by the praises the film get than by the film itself.
I found LIT to be a brilliant movie because of the way it moved me. I loved MA because it visually stunned me, and I liked the mood and pace of it. Neither movies changed my life. I take what pleases me and leave the rest aside.
There are zillions of better done and deeper movies, and while I certainly appreciate that 2001 A Space Odyssey (another contemplative movie) is galaxies above MA in every single aspect but that doesn't prevent me to enjoy MA.

I really hope she resumes to working with Vogue and photographing, but I would not want to see that many films from her anymore. I don't think she has anything to give anymore.

As you said, 'she is talented in her own genre'. I, for one, ask for an 'encore' .

 

[Whitelinen]

Please do stop with this ageism. The film wasn't only appreciated by giggling teenyboppers. Some grown up critics and viewers liked it too. Is that all you saw in that movie? No emotion, no empathy? You must have been deadly bored then, because the emotional intensity of LIT is what makes it watchable. Otherwise it's so dull, no?
I don't see the pseudo-intellectual part. I don't think Sofia's intent was to go all philosophical on us. If anything, she wanted to recreate an atmosphere. I can see how some people might think she has failed there and produced a sterile movie, but where is the intellectualism? Could you develop?
It is rumored that her brother is actually mainly responsible for the cinematography. After seeing CQ, I would be inclined to believe it.
I see where you are coming from but why does what she (or those who hype her) says or thinks matter?
If you think her movies are pretty fluff then enjoy them as such. Unless pretty fluff give you stomachache then move on.
What I really don't understand is that detractors of the movie seem more angered by the praises the film get than by the film itself.
I found LIT to be a brilliant movie because of the way it moved me. I loved MA because it visually stunned me, and I liked the mood and pace of it. Neither movies changed my life. I take what pleases me and leave the rest aside.
There are zillions of better done and deeper movies, and while I certainly appreciate that 2001 A Space Odyssey (another contemplative movie) is galaxies above MA in every single aspect but that doesn't prevent me to enjoy MA.

As you said, 'she is talented in her own genre'. I, for one, ask for an 'encore' .

Hmm... I have learned this ageism as it is constantly used against me. That's how I picked it up, when people thought they can know exactly who I am and what I think based on my age. I have a circle of friends who all have a poster of Marie-Antoinette on their wall. Most of the teenage girls who have seen Virgin Suicides cite it as "their favourite film". I have not heard anyone considered adult gushing about it... besides, if you don't care about ageism, why does it matter to you if I say that it is only teens who appreciate it? Don't you want to be associated with something that only teens like or...?

As for Lit, I did see "emotion", but I would more call it an atmosphere. It was a nice film about two people who end up in Japan. It had terribly great atmosphere and cinematography, but to be honest, that is all I saw in it, and that is why I like it and do not find it dull. Emotion, yes there was that, but I don't think it was on the "main role" in the film. It was merely a detail. We see films differently because we are different persons that's ok to me.

As for her "trying to be intellectual", it is connected to how "mysterious" she wants to see herself perceived in the media and how her films become cult films. The best way to get yourself and your work to look intellectual in the eyes of the public is to say nothing, to hide things. Both in your films and your public figure. The muted whisper in the end of LiT, the "open" ending of Virgin Suicides... those make us think there is something more than there is. Because we don't know it.

And why I don't like that this film has gotten praise? Well, of course because I did not like the film. If you like the film, surely you also like the praise. I think that it is a waste of money and time to raise something to a statue that doesn't need to be there. However, that is only my opinion and my perception of the film and Coppola's overall work.

I don't know where you are getting at with some of your comments... my point was that what I like in Sofia Coppola's work, whether it is films, music videos, fashion or photography is the aspect of visuality, usually quite cutesy. What I don't like is that she is thought to be an intellectual and that her work is something else than fluff and eye candy. Therefore I think we both agree that we like fluff and eye candy and we have no problem with it, no? My problem with MA is that it was lacking in these elements, of candy and fluff, and tried to be something of a great tale, ending up to be as if an angsty teen with love troubles and parents who don't let her out to party for nights would have written the script and directed it.

 

[marylauda]

I really enjoyed the movie. I love French history. The movie was pretty, and parts were sad without being heavy, which could easily happen in a movie about Marie Antoinette. I do wish that there was a bit more emphasis on how she changed fashions; I think it would have fit nicely with the atmosphere that Sofia created. Like how she wore men's breeches for riding, ditched the corset for a while, etc.

Ultimately, I think it is a nice film. If anything, it has probably sparked an interest in history in some younger people, which can't be a bad thing!

 

[dizzytacks]

soooooooooooooooooooo bad, the only bit i liked was the bit about th petit trianon( i think) where i could actually see sophia's signature...

 

[Whitelinen]

I really enjoyed the movie. I love French history. The movie was pretty, and parts were sad without being heavy, which could easily happen in a movie about Marie Antoinette. I do wish that there was a bit more emphasis on how she changed fashions; I think it would have fit nicely with the atmosphere that Sofia created. Like how she wore men's breeches for riding, ditched the corset for a while, etc.

Ultimately, I think it is a nice film. If anything, it has probably sparked an interest in history in some younger people, which can't be a bad thing!

Please do remember, that although Marie Antoinette, the queen, is part of French history, the film itself was not history. It was Sofia Coppola's own interpretation, and most of the things in the film never happened. Don't take it as a history lesson.

 

[Harumi]

and most of the things in the film never happened. Don't take it as a history lesson.

It really depends on what you are looking for.
A lot of things were accurate: the settings, the social hierarchy and rituals, the way of life in Versailles, etc.
Sofia didn't show everything that happened (the Affair of the Necklace, for example, and she stopped at the flee from Versailles, thus not showing the arrest and execution) but her movie is pretty close from the book, which itself is accurate enough.
The fiction part mostly concern the dialogues, M-A's personality and M-A's affair with the Swedish Count.
The movie would be a good source if you wanted to know how the Versailles court used to function.
Although, for an even better rendition, I warmly recommend L'allée du Roi (The King's Alley), which is a splendid masterpiece.

 

[Harumi]

Most of the teenage girls who have seen Virgin Suicides cite it as "their favourite film". I have not heard anyone considered adult gushing about it...

That only reflect on what your social circle thinks, nothing more. I personally don't know anyone who would list VS as their favourite movie, yet I don't draw any general conclusions from that.

besides, if you don't care about ageism, why does it matter to you if I say that it is only teens who appreciate it? Don't you want to be associated with something that only teens like or...?

The point is that I do care. It's no being associated with any group age that bother me, but rather the gross generalisation you are making.

We see films differently because we are different persons that's ok to me.

That's OK to me too.

As for her "trying to be intellectual", it is connected to how "mysterious" she wants to see herself perceived in the media and how her films become cult films. The best way to get yourself and your work to look intellectual in the eyes of the public is to say nothing, to hide things. Both in your films and your public figure. The muted whisper in the end of LiT, the "open" ending of Virgin Suicides... those make us think there is something more than there is. Because we don't know it.

I see your point but then again, to some people there really is more. As you said, people see things differently, according to their own sensibility.

I think that it is a waste of money and time to raise something to a statue that doesn't need to be there.

What I don't like is that she is thought to be an intellectual and that her work is something else than fluff and eye candy.

I still think it should be irrelevant what others are saying.

 

[Whitelinen]

Well, aren't you a little bit annoyed that when they write about the history of the film, they reference on filmmakers who don't necessarily need the title, but have gained it through other things than their film's quality. That is why other people's opinions do matter, to me. But maybe they don't matter to you, and that's completely fine to me.

That only reflect on what your social circle thinks, nothing more. I personally don't know anyone who would list VS as their favourite movie, yet I don't draw any general conclusions from that.

Could be true, but I am basing this on people in the internet. And there are plenty. They are not in my social circle, but I have seen their information. VS is such a hipster film. Go to Livejournal or MySpace and take a look at their profiles, the collages the artsy ones make etc. You will find so much influence it will make you gag.

 

[marylauda]

Please do remember, that although Marie Antoinette, the queen, is part of French history, the film itself was not history. It was Sofia Coppola's own interpretation, and most of the things in the film never happened. Don't take it as a history lesson.

I do know that the film was not meant to be a history lesson. I have spent lots of time, presently and in the past, reading various sources about Marie Antoinette and other French royals. While some things were left out, such as the Affair of the Necklace, which has been mentioned many times, and some things were fabricated, like the affair with Count Fersen, many things were indeed true. Minor details such as her bathing in her nightgown were true. Overall it was a good portrayal of what it would be like to live at Versailles I believe. It is a stretch to say that most things in the movie did not happen, because quite a bit of them did, apart from dialogue. I did not take the movie as a history lesson, I said that it may have sparked an interest in some people, so maybe they could do their own reading and find out more.

 

[Harumi]

Go to Livejournal or MySpace and take a look at their profiles, the collages the artsy ones make etc. You will find so much influence it will make you gag.

MySpace and Livejournal themselves make me gag. Too much vulgarity and pointlessness condensed in one website.

I do get most of your points, I really do, I just don't agree. I think we exhausted this discussion, but you're fun to argue with.

 

[Whitelinen]

^ Thanks, you too I am glad we can agree to disagree.

 

[jackieonassis]

I bought the DVD and will be watching it tonight!

 

[ilaughead]

^How did you like it? And the big question: did you see the sneakers?

 

[mellowdrama]

Please do remember, that although Marie Antoinette, the queen, is part of French history, the film itself was not history. It was Sofia Coppola's own interpretation, and most of the things in the film never happened. Don't take it as a history lesson.

You mean she didn't dig Annabella Lwin?!!! Shocked! I am.

 

[TheKiwi]

Just stumbled across this music video by Valeria, obviously inspired by Sofia's Marie Antoinette.



Blatant rip-offs in the music video:
- Bathtub sequences
- Color palette
- Fireworks scene
- Opening shot of girl on balcony, very similar to a shot in the movie
- Mixing of the old with the new

Terrible song... But I find it addicting!

 

[ilaughead]

Wow! Good find! (Well, bad song, but still.)