The Effects of Plastic Surgery on Society

[softgrey]

one of the reasons I watch a LOT of British programming is that actors generally are more natural and have wrinkles, grey hair and curves...
they have much more character in their faces and interest me much more than the Hollywood stereotypes...

 

[softgrey]

the beautiful to the eye of the masses typically at say some beauty contest could often be something like the pleasant, different from beauty to the eye of art or literature, philosophy, etc, or us in a moment of exceptional honesty or solitude where every body may look beautiful and someone like genet can say beauty has no other origin than the wound...
but basically the former eye and the latter don't take place at the same time. it would be impossible to have one in the right and the other in the left. in this sense there is no one context that makes them conflict directly. we only slip into either venue. and there are many other venues as well. but we can never stay at one of them for ever (even if we try hard to pretend) as long as active intelligence is thriving. we are to go through inauguration and interruption.

nothing is ever simple, is it?......

...

 

[softgrey]

just want to say thanks to everyone who responded to this thread...


these are the longest and most thoughtful responses to any topic than I've seen since the days when tFS was in its prime...

I've got to digest them all before I can respond fully, but I just want to let you guys know that you are appreciated for taking the time to think about this and respond so thoughtfully...

 

[runner]

nothing is ever simple, is it?......

...

let's call that fertile.
it is our time, that which produces the future.
enrichment? outside paradise.

 

[ghostwriter10549]

I heard that you can get botox in the UK's drugstores anytime you want now. Someone that lives there can tell us more about it? Im curiuos about the impact of this on the people everyday life.

 

[whippie]

^ I know in Australia there is a beauty brand called Freeze Frame that sells a botox type product, lip plumpers and such that are non medical so you can just get in the shops.

 

[Not Plain Jane]

this sounds dangerous and sad ... ^
i empathize with softgrey's point about TV/film: i love the natural look of ageing actors/actresses.
i recently watched an older american film "kicking & screaming" and one of the things i LIKE was the imperfect teeth of the actors, you know, like real people. i just like a little authenticity in fashion, film, life.

 

[SLFC]

I don't like it but I have no issue with somebody wanting it in their own independent thoughts. But how to prevent our young people from thinking that they have to do it to be successful. I'm not sure if there is any real fix to this problem. Personally I'm curious as to how often this happens. I do know for a fact that in Korea this is a very common thing among 16 year olds.

 

[Sky Inka]

I think that there will always be some sort of societal beauty standard. However, today in 2022 it does seem like cosmetic medicine has become a social norm (which I don't think is a bad thing). It also seems that people are a lot more open to individuality and unique beauty, leaving everyone to make their own decisions on how they want to look. If you love how you look without any work done, amazing! If not, make the changes that will make you feel confident in your own skin!

 

[Drusilla_]

Superficially, it's become "open to individuality and originality" but it's interesting to me how the aesthetics with the greatest desirability/reward attached when NOT being used for social justice points...are still the same as they always were ie conventional, maybe with a very slight expansion over the last decade so that girls with a hip circumference over 36 inches are no longer considered "fat" or various euphemisms for being less than attractive . I'm not casting judgement on this, just on the effort to pretend otherwise.

 

[Sky Inka]

I think that there will always be some sort of societal beauty standard. However, today in 2022 it does seem like cosmetic medicine has become a social norm (which I don't think is a bad thing). It also seems that people are a lot more open to individuality and unique beauty, leaving everyone to make their own decisions on how they want to look. If you love how you look without any work done, amazing! If not, make the changes that will make you feel confident in your own skin!

I do think, however that many people go overboard, which of course is not good. If you are getting work done for the sole purpose of fitting social standards, then you probably should opt against it. Regardless, everyone has the choice to do what they feel is best for them!

 

[runner]

" Instead of bringing freedom, the fall of the oppressive authority thus gives rise to new and more severe prohibitions. How are we to account for this paradox? Think of the situation known to most of us from our youth: the unfortunate child who, on Sunday afternoon, has to visit his grandmother instead of being allowed to play with friends. The old-fashioned authoritarian father’s message to the reluctant boy would have been: “I don’t care how you feel. Just do your duty, go to grandmother and behave there properly!” In this case, the child’s predicament is not bad at all: although forced to do something he clearly doesn’t want to, he will retain his inner freedom and the ability to (later) rebel against the paternal authority. Much more tricky would have been the message of a “postmodern” non-authoritarian father: “You know how much your grandmother loves you! But, nonetheless, I do not want to force you to visit her – go there only if you really want to!” Every child who is not stupid (which is to say most children) will immediately recognize the trap of this permissive attitude: beneath the appearance of a free choice there is an even more oppressive demand than the one formulated by the traditional authoritarian father, namely an implicit injunction not only to visit the grandmother, but to do it voluntarily, out of the child’s own free will. Such a false free choice is the obscene superego injunction: it deprives the child even of his inner freedom, ordering him not only what to do, but what to want to do. "

from How To Read Lacan / Zizek

 

[Legolas]

No one owes you or anyone else an explanation of what they do with their bodies. We all have insecurities, and humans have been altering their looks in various ways for thousands of years. This isn't new territory.

Yes, we all have insecurities and can decide to avoid explanations if we do something about them, but come on... don't be like Bella trying to cover the sun with a finger. Sometimes the procedures are EXTREMELY obvious to the point that denying them just make you look ridiculous to say the least. If you are a public figure, the game changes, there will always be tons of after and before photos to compare. You have to be an adult with common sense to identify when a celebrity is lying about having a 100% natural appearance, and sometimes, even some adults have issues identifying these lies. Now imagine teens and children. I would say if you are a public figure and decide to make a fool of yourself lying about your procedures to these new generations, you kinda owe an explanation, at least to your fans and people that see you as a role model, so that they won't try to live up to unrealistic expectations until they get sick or even hurt themselves in the process.

 

[softgrey]

" Instead of bringing freedom, the fall of the oppressive authority thus gives rise to new and more severe prohibitions. How are we to account for this paradox? Think of the situation known to most of us from our youth: the unfortunate child who, on Sunday afternoon, has to visit his grandmother instead of being allowed to play with friends. The old-fashioned authoritarian father’s message to the reluctant boy would have been: “I don’t care how you feel. Just do your duty, go to grandmother and behave there properly!” In this case, the child’s predicament is not bad at all: although forced to do something he clearly doesn’t want to, he will retain his inner freedom and the ability to (later) rebel against the paternal authority. Much more tricky would have been the message of a “postmodern” non-authoritarian father: “You know how much your grandmother loves you! But, nonetheless, I do not want to force you to visit her – go there only if you really want to!” Every child who is not stupid (which is to say most children) will immediately recognize the trap of this permissive attitude: beneath the appearance of a free choice there is an even more oppressive demand than the one formulated by the traditional authoritarian father, namely an implicit injunction not only to visit the grandmother, but to do it voluntarily, out of the child’s own free will. Such a false free choice is the obscene superego injunction: it deprives the child even of his inner freedom, ordering him not only what to do, but what to want to do. "

from How To Read Lacan / Zizek

OMG...
...

i've never realized that but it is so so true...
ugh...

...

 

[softgrey]

I think that there will always be some sort of societal beauty standard. However, today in 2022 it does seem like cosmetic medicine has become a social norm (which I don't think is a bad thing). It also seems that people are a lot more open to individuality and unique beauty, leaving everyone to make their own decisions on how they want to look. If you love how you look without any work done, amazing! If not, make the changes that will make you feel confident in your own skin!

I think that you call it "cosmetic medicine" is already indicative of a major shift in consciousness...
it's not medicine...it's not like you would die without it...
it's not curing an illness...

dang...
i'm kind of shocked...first time i've ever experienced anyone using that phrase... pretty scary...

 

[softgrey]

On the other hand, where does any disapproval of plastic surgery leave trans people? Where do we draw the line about what's necessary and what's optional?

good questions...

my biggest issue with the concept of being trans is the elective surgery...
voluntarily taking a knife to your own body just seems insane to me...
for any reason other than to save your life...

i know that trans people will say that it is lifesaving for them, but i find it hard to come to terms with that...
whether it's a "boob job" or scalp reduction or lip filler, it's all some form of mutilation...
and it just totally grosses me out...

......

i mean- if you wanna do any of that to yourself, it's your choice, but you can't make me think it's not horrifying and super tragic and sad...

the fact that you hate yourself so much that you are willing to go to the extreme of paying someone to cut you up is just sooooooo soooooo sad to me...
*using the universal you here...to be clear...

 

[runner]

OMG...
...

i've never realized that but it is so so true...
ugh...

...

in "violence", he also says "oppression itself is obliterated and masked as free choice. (What are you complaining for? YOU chose to do this. ) Our freedom of choice effectively often functions as a mere formal gesture of consent to our own oppression and exploitation. "

"free to choose painful cosmetic surgery"

 

[runner]

" Today's "permissive" society is certainly not less "repressive" than the epoch of the "organization man," that obsessive servant of the bureaucratic institution; the sole difference lies in the fact that in a "society that demands submission to the rules of social intercourse but refuses to ground those rules in a code of moral conduct," i.e., in the ego-ideal, the social demand assumes the form of a harsh, punitive superego. "

from Looking Awry - zizek

 

[Camila Johnson]

I found mostly, the actors are having this kind surgeries

 

[Larynavalyt]

There are too many questions, but the message is clear. People are too fixated on their appearance lately and do everything in order to look like celebrities, and at the same time they lose their individuality.