The Pretension Of Yves Saint Laurent

[mikeijames]

YSL SAYS YES

YVES SAINT LAURENT and his long-term partner, Pierre Bergé, have given their blessing to Stefano Pilati as the new creative director at YSL Rive Gauche. Famously critical of Tom Ford, Bergé revealed to Women's Wear Daily that PPR bosses Francois-Henri Pinault and Serge Weinberg told them about the replacement before making it public knowledge. "Pilati came to see us three days ago," said Berge. I showed him around the [new YSL museum and foundation] and gave him a visit of the exhibition. I repeated to Pilati what I said to Ford at the beginning - that all of this is at his disposal. I also presented him to Yves, who is very happy with the choice. He thinks that it's better to [elevate] someone who is unknown than to bring in a [marquee name]." According to Bergé, Pilati's challenge is to "capture the spirit of Yves Saint Laurent. It's not a question of copying what Saint Laurent did, but it's about capturing the essence and culture of Yves Saint Laurent. Then he needs to modernise that, bring it into the 21st century, not to destroy everything, which is what Tom Ford did. I think that Pilati will be ale to repair the damage that's been done to the YSL culture and to reestablish the dialogue with the YSL customer." Pilati, meanwhile, says he has a "deep respect" for Saint Laurent. "When I first fell in love with fashion, it was obvious that Mr Saint Laurent was the master," he said. "Because he brought a couturier's sensibility to prêt-a-porter - while making it completely acceptable." (March 15 2004, AM)

(From Vogue.co.uk)

I am in love with the work, history, and legacy of Yves Saint Laurent the man, however I feel that there is simply bad blood between him and Tom Ford. To endorse Mr. Pilati to the chagrin of Tom Ford seems foolish since Mr. Pilati has had a major role in the work to date at Rive Gauche. Then, to attribute the destruction of the Yves Saint Laurent name to Tom Ford while laying his blessing on Pilati just smells of something personal. For those of us who did enjoy Ford's tutelage at Saint Laurent, I think he did, in a very particular way, distill the spirit of the modern Laurent with the help of his very talented team. Does anyone else have a comment on this?

 

[Lena]

i've read (wwd) that Pilati was not able to 'flourish' under TFord's "steel" direction in YSL, maybe Berger also knows this.

as for bad blood, its normal, since TF decided to de-throne Elbaz from YSL (Elbaz was assigned as design director from Saint Laurent himself) without having a word with Berger or Saint Laurent before taking the decision.

it was obvious to both Berger and Laurent that TF wanted to design there for 'personal reasons' >see vanity< and he never met with the old master to explain the reasons why he fired Elbaz.. also dont forget that TF closed down all the YSL ateliers.. which was a real bad move, both emotionally for Yves and the french public/clients and for the quality standards of the lebel itself.. add all these factors ups and i guess you can explain the 'bad blood'.

Pilati seems polite and cultured, at least he payed a visit and had a talk out of respect to the old master..

 

[Scott]

I agree,Lena. If there is bad blood between them its only because Tom Ford decided he could do whatever the hell he wanted and got rid of most everything that had any sign of YSL's long history. All the collections he did,never had any traces nor even an atmosphere pertaining to that legacy. The only thing that wasn't changed was the label itself. All in all,Tom was never in tune with Yves did.

 

[softgrey]

Originally posted by mikeijames@Mar 15th, 2004 - 1:32 pm
To endorse Mr. Pilati to the chagrin of Tom Ford seems foolish since Mr. Pilati has had a major role in the work to date at Rive Gauche. Then, to attribute the destruction of the Yves Saint Laurent name to Tom Ford while laying his blessing on Pilati just smells of something personal. For those of us who did enjoy Ford's tutelage at Saint Laurent, I think he did, in a very particular way, distill the spirit of the modern Laurent with the help of his very talented team. Does anyone else have a comment on this?

first-'to the chagrin of tom ford'- chagrin=disappointment..can we assume this? do we really think tom ford cares what yves thinks?! i think he's made it quite clear that he does not...


then-'ford's tutelage at st laurent'-tutelage=guardianship, protection, instruction...i don't think ford performed any of these funtions while at ysl...he ripped it apart and did his own thing...

i don't understand the question yves has a right to an opininon as much as any one of us regarding who is at the helm of ysl...even more so...because each garment and shoe and fragrance coming out of there still bears HIS name...which he built into an internationally respected, almost revered design house...

who else should have a right to say???...

 

[softgrey]

sorry, but i'm not done yet...

if anyone is pretentious...it's ford..who thinks he can just toss aways decades of genius and throw gucci II on the runway and be considered to even be in the same stratosphere as a YSL...i didn't see him stsarting a new TOM FORD collection...not, he grabbed YSL and tried to ride the coattails of a genius...just because you stand next to the queen...doesn't make you a princess...aaagh!!!


he makes me so mad...and so do the people who just don't seem to get it....must have some tea and relax....

 

[kit]

Originally posted by Scott@Mar 15th, 2004 - 1:50 pm
I agree,Lena. If there is bad blood between them its only because Tom Ford decided he could do whatever the hell he wanted and got rid of most everything that had any sign of YSL's long history. All the collections he did,never had any traces nor even an atmosphere pertaining to that legacy. The only thing that wasn't changed was the label itself. All in all,Tom was never in tune with Yves did.

TF even changed the label from red , purple and gold to , surprise , surprise , black and white .

The shops are nightmares of gloom , William Sofeld has NO idea about the customer being able to actually SEE the clothes on offer .

It's obvious that Stephano Pilati has made a good beginning with Berge ( and hence YSL himself ) and let's hope it stays that way as Berge has got as poisonous and vicious a tongue when crossed , as dear Karl Lagerfeld .

Let's wait and see...............

KIT

 

[mikeijames]

forgive my outright ignorance, but if yves saint laurent is/was so protective of his name why did he not take control of the company itself. i have never read that the takeover of saint laurent was a hostile one and it is one, if i am not wrong, that left saint laurent an inordinately wealthy man. there's an interesting mingling of the work tom did with the decisions dom (as in domenico de sole) made...was it tom's decision to close the atelier or domenico's? sure tom wanted to design for saint laurent -- that's obvious from his previous collections at gucci -- but who WOULDN'T given that opportunity? and i don't think that tom ford was rejoicing when ysl didn't show up at his first show...there just seems like publicly yves wants to make it clear that he hated tom ford on some individual level.

and do you guys remember elbaz at ysl? while there may have been some altogether literal ysl work going on (almost-cartoonish remakes) -- there was absolutely no attempt to make ysl relevant to the modern woman.

(an example from an elbaz show in '95)

 

[softgrey]

does anyone remember this collection by elbaz for ysl---genius...
fall2000
style.com doesn't ahve the pictures up anymore...does anyone know where esle i can find that collection?

 

[Deleted member 1957]

Originally posted by mikeijames@Mar 15th, 2004 - 3:12 pm
forgive my outright ignorance, but if yves saint laurent is/was so protective of his name why did he not take control of the company itself. i have never read that the takeover of saint laurent was a hostile one and it is one, if i am not wrong, that left saint laurent an inordinately wealthy man. there's an interesting mingling of the work tom did with the decisions dom (as in domenico de sole) made...was it tom's decision to close the atelier or domenico's? sure tom wanted to design for saint laurent -- that's obvious from his previous collections at gucci -- but who WOULDN'T given that opportunity? and i don't think that tom ford was rejoicing when ysl didn't show up at his first show...there just seems like publicly yves wants to make it clear that he hated tom ford on some individual level.

and do you guys remember elbaz at ysl? while there may have been some altogether literal ysl work going on (almost-cartoonish remakes) -- there was absolutely no attempt to make ysl relevant to the modern woman.

(an example from an elbaz show in '95)

 

[Spike413]

Originally posted by mikeijames@Mar 15th, 2004 - 3:12 pm
forgive my outright ignorance, but if yves saint laurent is/was so protective of his name why did he not take control of the company itself. i have never read that the takeover of saint laurent was a hostile one and it is one, if i am not wrong, that left saint laurent an inordinately wealthy man. there's an interesting mingling of the work tom did with the decisions dom (as in domenico de sole) made...was it tom's decision to close the atelier or domenico's? sure tom wanted to design for saint laurent -- that's obvious from his previous collections at gucci -- but who WOULDN'T given that opportunity? and i don't think that tom ford was rejoicing when ysl didn't show up at his first show...there just seems like publicly yves wants to make it clear that he hated tom ford on some individual level.

and do you guys remember elbaz at ysl? while there may have been some altogether literal ysl work going on (almost-cartoonish remakes) -- there was absolutely no attempt to make ysl relevant to the modern woman.

(an example from an elbaz show in '95)

Totally agree with you......

Ok, I'll probably be considered a fashion heathen for saying this. Yes, we all know that Yves was a brilliant couturier and has had much impact on modern fashion. But I do not understand why everyone feels he is so godlike. Amazing designer, yes, but he seems like an arrogant a**hole to be quite frank. I don't think that TF should have to ask him to take over designing at his house just because he is Yves Saint Laurent. As far as Tom Ford ripping apart the Saint Laurent name, I will say that most of his collections there have been quite successful, not only in terms of sales, but also in terms of their credebility. I still don't understand how anyone can say that Tom's collections did not represent what Yves' designs did or that he was out of tune with the spirit of the house. Look at Tom Ford's customer, a confident, in control, chic woman with an affinitey for fashion......From what I know, that seems pretty much what Yves was doing all the way back when he did the "Le Smoking". Also, wasn't Mr. Saint Laurent the first designer to ever show a nipple on the runway? So how can people say that when Yves does it, it's genious, when Tom does it under Yves' name, it's totally perverting what YSL stands for? IMO, Tom basically took Yves ideal woman, and dressed her daughter. I just can't see how people could possibly say that he didn't represent YSL.

Would everyone who feels this way be appeased if Tom simply re-designed all of the things that Yves did? Perhaps Mr. Saint Laurent's ego would enjoy seeing a tribute to his past hits season after season, and since that isn't what Tom did, he feels that "he didn't represent the spirit of Saint Laurent"

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone here, as I'm sure I have, but being as young as I am, I haven't been around for YSL's groundbreaking moments in fashion history. I can only go from what I know, and while I can appreciate what YSL did for fashion and I have liked some of the things he has designed, I don't feel that I should regard him as the demi-god so many other people seem to do.

 

[kit]

Originally posted by softgrey@Mar 15th, 2004 - 3:26 pm
does anyone remember this collection by elbaz for ysl---genius...
fall2000
style.com doesn't ahve the pictures up anymore...does anyone know where esle i can find that collection?

Here you go , Chucks

http://www.firstview.com/alldesigners/YvesSaintLaurent.html

KIT

 

[PrinceOfCats]

oes anyone remember this collection by elbaz for ysl

It looks like Dior Homme

 

[softgrey]

some of ford's 'genius'

ysl

 

[softgrey]

more---wow...how'd he come up with this one

 

[faust]

Originally posted by softgrey@Mar 15th, 2004 - 2:38 pm
sorry, but i'm not done yet...

if anyone is pretentious...it's ford..who thinks he can just toss aways decades of genius and throw gucci II on the runway and be considered to even be in the same stratosphere as a YSL...i didn't see him stsarting a new TOM FORD collection...not, he grabbed YSL and tried to ride the coattails of a genius...just because you stand next to the queen...doesn't make you a princess...aaagh!!!


he makes me so mad...and so do the people who just don't seem to get it....must have some tea and relax....

gucci II, I'm rolling on the floor, that's too funny!

 

[softgrey]

that was so amazing...i think i'll do it again

 

[Meg]

Originally posted by mikeijames@Mar 15th, 2004 - 8:12 pm
-- there was absolutely no attempt to make ysl relevant to the modern woman.

oh and the cut to there Gucci stylings of Tom Ford are for the modern everyday woman? I think not. I totally agree with what softgrey said.

 

[softgrey]

hmmm.what can i do now to top that?....i know....i'll do SLEEVES!!!! my god...i'm such a genius...kisses himself all over....

 

[Acid]

Originally posted by softgrey@Mar 15th, 2004 - 8:44 pm
more---wow...how'd he come up with this one

i dont think the clothes were particularly bad..........well sometimes

but its more the fact that they WERENT YSL, as a creative director its your job to reinvent the house but at the same time to maintain some sort of signiature

tom ford decided to make YSL 'gucci with ruffles'

 

[Lena]

i adore the Elbaz YSL look that you posted mikeijames

ysl had to sold the company due to enormous expencess
they had the best -almost couture- ateliers in Paris and amazing fabrics etc.
arrogance and demolish of the style of the house of ysl, was not a part of the
deal, they trusted gucci with keeping the brand at a certain quality level,
which wasnt the case, and i'm not even talking on design level,
i'm talking production. The 'fault' may have started from Dom, but Tom did
nothing to stop the closure of the ateliers.

why and how could Yves show up to the first ysl rive gauche TF show?
when thousants of his x-employs were jobless and the brand was
going downhill? would you have been there? what for?
to congratulate the disaster?

btw, Elbaz & Hedi two of the brightest stars of todays fashion,
were both working at ysl rive gauche before Tom&Dom took control...
The rest is history ..right?