Theyskens' Theory S/S 11 New York

Discussion in 'Designers and Collections' started by hedikid, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. Zazie

    Zazie Active Member

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    I never wear Theory, and I hated Theyskens at Nina Ricci, so it isn't for the name "Theyskens". Women's clothes are seldom as well-tailored and finished as menswear as there are a millions ways to hide and distract with embellishment, fancy cutting techniques, etc. Theory's own tailored looks are nothing to write home about. I have always looked for classics, simple in design but extraordinary in the cut, technique and finish, and very few have delivered. I guess not everyone can see the cut technique in the "slouch", the flow and movement of these pieces even as they maintain an impeccable finish, falling beautifully on the body yet *not* tailored close to it, thus maintaining an ease not found in most tailored ensembles. I don't want the stiffness of a man's suit, but few designers have sent out the feminine equivalent, a very flattering long, lean, bespoke silhouette and yes, the ethereal quality is there, and not overdone with the frou, watery, "wood nymph" themes like in Nina Ricci, as he had to deliver a "wow" factor. He was far more successful at Rochas because he was able to show his extraordinary cut and tailoring talent in the quieter looks. I have a softly volumed grey winter Nina Ricci jacket that is like a gently puffed "perfecto" that unzips into a tulip collar, it is completely simple yet marvelous in how it is achieved. You really need an eye to see the difference between this and a Ralph Lauren or even Calvin Klein and McQueen, who adapt men's tailoring for their suits and jackets for women, but Theyskens innovated his tailoring for this particular effect. So in a way yes, I love how "Theyskens" this is, but not in the name, but in the uniqueness of his *impeccable* tailoring inventions that produce an unmistakable look, a look that is *not* Theory.
     
    #41 Zazie, Sep 15, 2010
    Last edited by moderator lumineux: Sep 15, 2010
  2. elle_gb

    elle_gb Well-Known Member

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    Wowww i love almost every pieces, this is great to see him doing something wearable.
     
  3. Zazie

    Zazie Active Member

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    I don't own a single high-end designer/low end brand collaboration piece, I am even skeptical about the new Lanvin/H&M, and I never fell for the Lagerfeld/H&M or Rodarte/Topshop (?) hype. However, when I see a great investment, like these pieces, I buy, as I know they will look great for years, even decades, whether it is under Theyskens' own name (which i will prefer) or Theory or H&M. There is a perfectionist behind these pieces, Theyskens reminds me of Thimister, another great Belgian of the bespoke tradition. My only fear is whether these qualities are faithfully replicated in the Theory workshops/factories, so I will need to see the pieces for myself in the stores. I understand they are not cheap, costing $500 and above, so it's still a careful consideration.
     
    #43 Zazie, Sep 15, 2010
    Last edited by moderator lumineux: Sep 15, 2010
  4. LagerfeldBoy

    LagerfeldBoy Active Member

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    Ugh, where do I even begin here. Those jackets, simply amazing. The fit of the jeans and pants are quite cool looking. Overall, with a simpler vision from theyskens for theory, It's quite simple yet executed so strongly and has a very great execution. Obviously it has the minimimal trend but it's so nonchalant and yet dark and appealing at the same time.
     
  5. Zazie

    Zazie Active Member

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    Ok, maybe I should explain the tailoring part better - Most designers use their techniques of darts and pattern-making to "sculpt" jackets and pants for women, this is especially true of McQueen, whose suits are such perfect "fit" around the body they are like exoskeleton. And McQueen is already a cut above other big names like Lagerfeld (the worst famous name in terms of tailoring and cut I can think of). Theyskens works with those techniques *and* gravity to invent his own technique to gently tailor a very fluid silhouette without any unflattering excess, the "designs" may look the same but from the way the clothes fit and fall around the body with such an elegant ease, you can see the difference. I can't think of many other designers who do this, if any names come to mind, do post.
     
    #45 Zazie, Sep 15, 2010
    Last edited by moderator lumineux: Sep 15, 2010
  6. balmain1914

    balmain1914 Well-Known Member

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    Theyskens is making wearable collections...
     
  7. almudena

    almudena Member

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    I really fail to understand who is his client here, to whom these clothes are addressed to.
     
  8. Meg

    Meg inspired contemplation

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    um, me? Who ISN'T the client? Theory clothes are very well priced - very mid market. I can see the jacket and pants selling as separates or a suit. I don't really see any part of this that is not sale-able.
     
  9. almudena

    almudena Member

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    Quoting from wsj blog:

    "Called “Theyskens’ Theory,” it’s a capsule collection of 80 looks, priced 30-40% higher than the clothes from the core brand, which is known for its versatile, wear-to-work separates that professional women swear by. "

    I don't see these clothes addressed to the typical Theory client (OK, maybe jackets?). So, they have to attract a new client here. How do you define her? Which age/social group would be willing to pay the 30-40% premium to attain this look? And who are the competitors? (I'll give it a try with examples of the french market that I know better: Zadig & Voltaire? Isabel Marant maybe?)
     
  10. unspoiledbird

    unspoiledbird New Member

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    Wow, I've definitely been out of the loop for too long. Looked at the collection, said "meh" since I expected something much more exciting from Olivier, read the style.com review (ahem) and gave it another look. Blown away. I mean, the little troubles he takes to leave his mark on each piece and somehow manage to make a sophisticated yet easygoing ensemble is something I've always admired. Can't wait to see what he'll come up with next as he gets more comfortable with the brand!
     
  11. Uemarasan

    Uemarasan Active Member

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    Maybe Yamamoto? Although his idea of tailoring does not seem to distinguish between masculine and feminine but is more interested in blurring the line dividing the two. What about Alaia? Sander and Lang? Of course Vionnet, or are you speaking only of contemporary and active designers?

    I agree with you. Most of what Theyskins has done for Nina Ricci was vastly overrated. People were mostly interested in the spectacle of his collections rather than looking at cut and technique. This is far above the red carpet-obsessed glamorama, fantasy couture monster children of Galliano that his stint in Nina Ricci unleashed. It's good to see a return to quality.

    Zazie, it's always a pleasure reading your posts. This is the type of intelligent and knowledgeable discussion I've longed for in the forums. I wish there were more!
     
    #51 Uemarasan, Sep 15, 2010
    Last edited by moderator design19: Sep 15, 2010
  12. Meg

    Meg inspired contemplation

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    almudena - thanks for the blurb. I didn't know it was going to be priced higher. I will also say though that 30-40% higher doesn't place Theory anywhere near Marant in pricing in the US. In Europe, Theory clothes are, obviously, more expensive. In fact, they just opened up a new boutique on Marylebone High St. and I'm always surprised when I see the prices because they at least 50% higher in the UK. For example, the Taliana dress is currently priced at £340 on Net-a-porter UK, while it is currently on sale at Shopbop.com for $290 (I also saw this exact dress hanging in new Theory shop I mentioned above). Of course, NAP usually has slightly higher prices but that's just a quick example I could find. So I think that location is perhaps is influencing your question on pricing.

    I think Theory is, justifiably, trying to draw in new customers with this capsule collection line. People who perhaps are young professionals or on the go women who may have dismissed Theory in the past because they viewed it as a generic, mid-price product. The kind of brand that you see everywhere from Nordstrom and Macy's to Barney's. Now however, the price tag is a bit higher along with the quality, and the shapes are a bit more modern. So I agree with you - it may not appeal to the usual Theory woman (but I think many would be drawn to it) but perhaps bringing new customers in and drawing the attention of the fashion community.
     
  13. fierceboi

    fierceboi New Member

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    one of the most wearable collections from new york even though there's nothing revolutionary about it. these are clothes edgy girls wanna wear
     
  14. almudena

    almudena Member

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    Meg,

    You are right, it is a location question, I have no idea what Theory prices are in the US. But here we have trousers costing 250 euros or coats for 650 euros or 420 euro booties (just examples), so adding the premium (if it is applied also in France) we are not talking about mid-price clothing anymore I think. From the styling of the collection I gather this is not addressed to women older than their early 30s and it's mostly daywear, so I kind of see a collision here.
     
  15. almudena

    almudena Member

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    Oh yes, I couldn't agree more, I also see this as edgy girls clothes with a considerably high price (at least for French standards) in a market area that I think is very crowded (again, I'm talking about Paris here).
     
  16. Zazie

    Zazie Active Member

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    Thank you Uemarasan, that is a great compliment from you, it is much appreciated. :flower: The credit belongs to Theyskens for his talent, though, without which there is nothing to write. The master designers you mentioned are all among my favourites, and yes, they do work with the natural levity and fall of their materials, especially Yamamoto. I think for the great Alaia, McQueen was his natural heir. Although he is Belgium, Theyskens is a bit different from the more in-your-face Antwerpen designers in that there is a quiet tenderness and fragility in his clothes that is quite rare, a refined gentle femininity, yet the designs are androgynous and really easy to wear. Closest designer that comes to mind is Thimister, another perfectionist.

    Jil Sander, though equally "quiet", has a more conventional cut, Helmut Lang and Yamamoto are edgy respectively, and the new Vionnet, in my mind, belongs closer to the Nina Ricci genre which I have yet to explore. The "wow" factor aside, I'd take Theyskens in this minimalist, quiet mode over their classic equivalent anytime, they're all really nicely cut but Theysken's is special - it could be in a slight volume gathered at the sleeve, a slouch of the shoulders, etc., it's hard to define how close attention to details could result in perfection in a shirt or jacket.

    I'm worried about the price point, but in these economic times, I'm more likely to invest in work clothes which are my bread and butter than statement dresses which I wear on special occasions. I get much more in terms of wear. Theory was to me, in the past, filed with Tahari, APC, Agnes B., Barney's New York, etc. I don't wear them, but this collection, I will. I am constantly looking for something that is noticeably different, yet doesn't scream "fashion", not identifiable as a particular designer's or a season's collection. It's unbelieveable how difficult it is to find in womenswear.
     
    #56 Zazie, Sep 15, 2010
    Last edited by moderator lumineux: Sep 15, 2010
  17. Crying Diamonds

    Crying Diamonds Geometric Discharge

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    Sooo Theyskens' - I adore this look.
     
  18. Uemarasan

    Uemarasan Active Member

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    Ah, so I take it you are referring to a softer tailoring? In that respect, yes, I believe Alaia's is in a way more structured than the fluidity of Theyskins and, as you say, Thimister. By the way, when I am referring to Sander, Lang, and Vionnet, it's with respect to the originators of these houses :smile: I don't believe the new Vionnet is very successful, and I am still not completely convinced by Raf Simons. Jil seemed more concerned about tailoring than the conceptual Simons, and was far softer with regards to her aesthetic.
     
  19. masquerade

    masquerade God Save McQueen

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    well that price bump will put the prices into the premium designer range. Theory's prices have been climbing as it is.
     
  20. ChrissyM

    ChrissyM girl who fell to earth

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    i think this is more "theory girl after work" or "theory girl with an edge"...
    not necessarily only attracting a new customer but maybe fulfilling other needs that current theory clients already have...

    this is definitely edgier than the typical theory stuff and i think the fact that theyskens is designing it definitely helps...
    you can see his influence on the work but it's still commercial, very wearable...
    and even at 30-40% higher than typical theory prices i think i would be thrilled if i could get my hands on a few pieces...
    they can be worn for more than a single season, theory uses nice materials and is constructed well...
    i think this is great.. truly

    *also, i have to add... i like this more and more every time i look at it
    really great and can be worn in so many different ways... versatile collection imo :wub:
     
    #60 ChrissyM, Sep 15, 2010
    Last edited by moderator : Sep 15, 2010

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