Valentino - The All-Things Valentino Thread

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daniel roseberry?

not a fan its too drag for me as his women cant walk in his clothes , i think mobility in haute couture is important i don't like walking statues, i don't like when clothes work against the body and you can barely walk to me its not cool or sexy or chic or dare i say it modern.

best architecture is the naked body everything after that is just trying to come close to it ...how i see it personally when it comes to clothes construction.

its not ugly ugly what he does i am happy the house is getting to live on but its not at a standard that i say WOW its new ....he caters to all the easy things that general public can love or be amazed by Disney level of WOW. he should push himself out of the safe zone of easy to please crowds.

 

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Hmm…
I know it’s a very unpopular opinion here but Hedi is not in any league to me when it comes to that.
There’s no virtuosity in his clothes. They are cool, they have attitude…Everything you want. But there’s no emotion in his clothes. It’s classic it’s well made but it’s not virtuosity.

Alber could make something out of nothing. There’s a lightness in his hand that was visible and invisible in his clothes.

I’m not talking about classic clothes per say but the ability to evoke classicism and transform it.

Valentino or Karl or Alber had ways to cut their clothes in a very hard to replicate way.

The same way, I think Galliano is. Nobody can do a biais cut dress like him. McQueen was a great designer but not a grand couturier.
Hedi is a great creative director, a great designer because of what he applied to menswear but in womenswear, I can’t give him his flowers and nobody will ever convince me otherwise.

But I will say that his approach s’inscrit in the classic tradition of Couture. Is that enough to be a Grand Couturier? Giambattista Valli is a Grand Couturier then…

No. He is talented, he is passionate but no.

Riccardo Tisci can be when he taps into the most classic part of his repertoire.

Roseberry is the Mugler school. Thierry Mugler was a great designer, not so much a grand couturier.

hehe i know my hedi stance is not popular just as my Blazy opinion

but in construction and philosophy of approaching clothes Hedi has that drive and arrogance to do things in a certain way lets say the right french way and he is serious about it i like that.
yet he is also knowing at what house he is and what people get or need on commercial level and the short attention span of the wider audience .

yes i like Albert as well ...i have a friend there at the house still and said friend says the archive of albert clothes are disappointing in construction which i am bit shocked about but i get that the construction was deconstructed etc

also JG and the tailoring of Lee McQ love

riccardo i know what he did for givenchy but he is onenote and he builds clothes like over assembling taking allot from helmut lang etc and just piling it up i have friends that worked in his studio and not impressed by his way of working.
the work is not clean or effortless in construction.

 

[Lola701]

hehe i know my hedi stance is not popular just as my Blazy opinion

but in construction and philosophy of approaching clothes Hedi has that drive and arrogance to do things in a certain way lets say the right french way and he is serious about it i like that.
yet he is also knowing at what house he is and what people get or need on commercial level and the short attention span of the wider audience .

yes i like Albert as well ...i have a friend there at the house still and said friend says the archive of albert clothes are disappointing in construction which i am bit shocked about but i get that the construction was deconstructed etc

also JG and the tailoring of Lee McQ love

riccardo i know what he did for givenchy but he is onenote and he builds clothes like over assembling taking allot from helmut lang etc and just piling it up i have friends that worked in his studio and not impressed by his way of working.
the work is not clean or effortless in construction.

My frustration with Hedi is the following:
Womenswear is the pinnacle of HF. I don’t feel like Hedi in his body of work has proven anything that should justify the level of accolade a lot of people are willing to give to him.

But he is work is indeed along the tradition of a certain idea of Couture in the 60’s. I would maybe associate it with the Beatnik Dior collection by YSL that was supposed to reflect the energy of a youth in a very conservative environment (stylewise) of Couture. And from the few things I saw from Hedi, it’s along that.

He is not a virtuose but there’s a simplicity and it’s impeccably made.


About Alber, I think that’s quite fascinating particularly in his work from 2009 until the end when he used more structure without losing his touch. I just find the way he used to do clothes very sophisticated.

Yes Galliano and McQueen tailoring was good. I prefer McQueen’s clothes for myself as I like structure and I think of the two his structured silhouette suited me the most.

Galliano’s tailoring is beautiful but for example I hate his padded shoulders. I think his tailoring is much more balanced when he does a natural shoulder.

Riccardo for me is inconsistent and maybe he will be more consistent with age (if he ever has the opportunity to do Couture). Because there’s a clear difference between the 10 looks compared to when he did runway shows. But he has that Gaultier/Versace approach in his décomplexée attitude around something as solennel as Couture.

Ps: I actually think your stance on Blazy is popular. It’s maybe a bit exagerrated because I don’t think the base of the « désaccord » is a right one.
I think a lot of detractors of Blazy are valuing the opinion of invaluable people on the question to have a counter-balance.

I find it more interesting to have a conversation around his work based on your opinion than on what a random influencer can say.
The same way that the POV of a tacky client, no matter how many millions she drops at Chanel every year doesn’t mean anything to me.

But yeah…Back to Valentino lol.
I hope Giancarlo will push for an exhibition in Paris around the Couture season at Galliera for example.

 

[PDFSD]

My frustration with Hedi is the following:
Womenswear is the pinnacle of HF. I don’t feel like Hedi in his body of work has proven anything that should justify the level of accolade a lot of people are willing to give to him.

But he is work is indeed along the tradition of a certain idea of Couture in the 60’s. I would maybe associate it with the Beatnik Dior collection by YSL that was supposed to reflect the energy of a youth in a very conservative environment (stylewise) of Couture. And from the few things I saw from Hedi, it’s along that.

He is not a virtuose but there’s a simplicity and it’s impeccably made.


About Alber, I think that’s quite fascinating particularly in his work from 2009 until the end when he used more structure without losing his touch. I just find the way he used to do clothes very sophisticated.

Yes Galliano and McQueen tailoring was good. I prefer McQueen’s clothes for myself as I like structure and I think of the two his structured silhouette suited me the most.

Galliano’s tailoring is beautiful but for example I hate his padded shoulders. I think his tailoring is much more balanced when he does a natural shoulder.

Riccardo for me is inconsistent and maybe he will be more consistent with age (if he ever has the opportunity to do Couture). Because there’s a clear difference between the 10 looks compared to when he did runway shows. But he has that Gaultier/Versace approach in his décomplexée attitude around something as solennel as Couture.

Ps: I actually think your stance on Blazy is popular. It’s maybe a bit exaggerated because I don’t think the base of the « désaccord » is a right one.
I think a lot of detractors of Blazy are valuing the opinion of invaluable people on the question to have a counter-balance.

I find it more interesting to have a conversation around his work based on your opinion than on what a random influencer can say.
The same way that the POV of a tacky client, no matter how many millions she drops at Chanel every year doesn’t mean anything to me.

But yeah…Back to Valentino lol.
I hope Giancarlo will push for an exhibition in Paris around the Couture season at Galliera for example.

Hedi´s menswear is what give him his well deserved place, like his rock and youth style or not....but if you know mens wear and wear it is on all levels clear like an armani he shifted a way many men dress and want to look like etc and he is a sharp tailor and his attention to details is relentless
i yet have to see a CD first hand be as obsessive..... Phoebe comes close knowing how her team describes working with her at celine and now at her own brand.

Hedis womens wear is new territory and an extension of his best skills are in menswear , even if i like his old fashioned approach to women's wear.
This i agree 100% .....his work is indeed along the tradition of a certain idea of Couture in the 60’s.Beatnik Dior collection by YSL that was supposed to reflect the energy of a youth in a very conservative environment (stylewise) of Couture. ...........this vein of contrast of couture and street /youth i love this of him. when its boardline old conservative but younger energie & sharp

Ps: I actually think your stance on Blazy is popular. i don't think this, i think more people will see as it rolls out that it's not what they hoped for after so many years of complaining about KL and VV.
Blazy is the internet darling this was since his BV days and that goodwill you see it also since he started at Chanel from the press to the influencers either if its real or trying to please Chanel i don't know.
I see more press openly critique on the struggles that JWA has at Dior than questioning Blazy´s Chanel.

On topic of tacky clients
I like to see women that shop and what their reality is versus high concept of brands because i come from working for these brands and where every type of demographic counts even if one does not fully appreciate x stylistic choices.

I personally find most real shoppers that share online more interesting than a influencer fashion type going to shows or reviewing it from a screen and never wear or buy it.

I like seeing the numbers of what are best sellers versus the high concept of ads or fashion shows ...i like this clash of reality because as you know its how the business is. ( Arnauld & Bertelli both have this way of immediately thinking of how that bag will look on the shop floor among the rest of the products and perform )

That american lady represents many women with means that buy into brands and they do represent the numbers in the market and indication for a group of client, that's why i share it to have early information touch points as well on the shop floor as i dont go try on myself and reading is ok but seeing review in changing room is makes it visually more clear as well.

If we are all honest how many people do have good taste , or the perfect fashion body and face ?
Even designers are not fitting the picture of their own creation and worlds.

Why i like the forum idea because the argument and facts should stand on their own not the packaging.

I wished on the forum we focus more on the information than the packaging of who brings it.

Cathy Horn is also annoying and dress bad for years ...so you know its like ok ..... lol

rest i agree with what you said.

 

[Lola701]

Ps: I actually think your stance on Blazy is popular. i don't think this, i think more people will see as it rolls out that it's not what they hoped for after so many years of complaining about KL and VV.
Blazy is the internet darling this was since his BV days and that goodwill you see it also since he started at Chanel from the press to the influencers either if its real or trying to please Chanel i don't know.
I see more press openly critique on the struggles that JWA has at Dior than questioning Blazy´s Chanel.

Blazy has the advantage of coming after Virginie. That’s all.
And if the crash you expect (and want to see) happen, it will happen.

Nobody can fake the funk for so long.

For me we are sometimes giving too much importance about this. I have witness so many divisive eras of designers that turn out to be successful that I’m a desensitize of it lol.

Regarding JWA, he brought it to himself with his terrible red carpets all summer. I can’t even save him on that.

On topic of tacky clients
I like to see women that shop and what their reality is versus high concept of brands because i come from working for these brands and where every type of demographic counts even if one does not fully appreciate x stylistic choices.

I personally find most real shoppers that share online more interesting than a influencer fashion type going to shows or reviewing it from a screen and never wear or buy it.

I like seeing the numbers of what are best sellers versus the high concept of ads or fashion shows ...i like this clash of reality because as you know its how the business is. ( Arnauld & Bertelli both have this way of immediately thinking of how that bag will look on the shop floor among the rest of the products and perform )

That american lady represents many women with means that buy into brands and they do represent the numbers in the market and indication for a group of client, that's why i share it to have early information touch points as well on the shop floor as i dont go try on myself and reading is ok but seeing review in changing room is makes it visually more clear as well.

If we are all honest how many people do have good taste , or the perfect fashion body and face ?
Even designers are not fitting the picture of their own creation and worlds.

Why i like the forum idea because the argument and facts should stand on their own not the packaging.

I wished on the forum we focus more on the information than the packaging of who brings it.

Cathy Horn is also annoying and dress bad for years ...so you know its like ok ..... lol

rest i agree with what you said.

It’s not so much a question of people beauty or not. That I don’t care.
The Chanel example is significative for me because I’m a client. So basically, the opinion of a woman I don’t find the style inspiring doesn’t add any depth to any of my analysis because precisely, I hated what she liked about Chanel in the past few years.

When we enter this kind of discussion from a shopper POV, when you are a shopper yourself, it’s difficult to create an instant distance…Compare to a man who judge HF for example.

A shopper is emotionally invested. I can’t pretend that I’m not.

For me when discussing fashion I’m more interested in the culture of people. From their culture I learn things. Numbers, going to the stores, talking to my friends in the industry and all helps me to have a less biaised opinion on things because we know about the smoke and mirrors of this industry.

But the most interesting thing is the culture and intellectual thinking behind people’s opinion on fashion. Cathy Horyn analyzes fashion differently from a Vanessa Friedman or a Robyn Givhan. They have different prism, culture and environment that shaped the way they see fashion.

In many ways we all have it here on TFS. Some people do work in the industry, some don’t. Some in creative spaces, some don’t. Some people got into fashion through music, some from family…etc.

You generalized a bit my point around the tacky client but my point was specific in a particular context.

But then I have different Point of references. I have a lot of women around me who enjoy fashion in a more volatile way, I travel, I attend events and so it helps me to grasp that exterior POV that you maybe get on those clients videos.
Because the reality is that we are so flooded by the same informations thanks to algorithm that the same people who maybe complained when the show was presented will eventually buy from it.

 

[PDFSD]

Blazy has the advantage of coming after Virginie. That’s all.
And if the crash you expect (and want to see) happen, it will happen.

Nobody can fake the funk for so long.

For me we are sometimes giving too much importance about this. I have witness so many divisive eras of designers that turn out to be successful that I’m a desensitize of it lol.

Regarding JWA, he brought it to himself with his terrible red carpets all summer. I can’t even save him on that.

It’s not so much a question of people beauty or not. That I don’t care.
The Chanel example is significative for me because I’m a client. So basically, the opinion of a woman I don’t find the style inspiring doesn’t add any depth to any of my analysis because precisely, I hated what she liked about Chanel in the past few years.

When we enter this kind of discussion from a shopper POV, when you are a shopper yourself, it’s difficult to create an instant distance…Compare to a man who judge HF for example.

A shopper is emotionally invested. I can’t pretend that I’m not.

For me when discussing fashion I’m more interested in the culture of people. From their culture I learn things. Numbers, going to the stores, talking to my friends in the industry and all helps me to have a less biased opinion on things because we know about the smoke and mirrors of this industry.

But the most interesting thing is the culture and intellectual thinking behind people’s opinion on fashion. Cathy Horyn analyzes fashion differently from a Vanessa Friedman or a Robyn Givhan. They have different prism, culture and environment that shaped the way they see fashion.

In many ways we all have it here on TFS. Some people do work in the industry, some don’t. Some in creative spaces, some don’t. Some people got into fashion through music, some from family…etc.

You generalized a bit my point around the tacky client but my point was specific in a particular context.

But then I have different Point of references. I have a lot of women around me who enjoy fashion in a more volatile way, I travel, I attend events and so it helps me to grasp that exterior POV that you maybe get on those clients videos.
Because the reality is that we are so flooded by the same informations thanks to algorithm that the same people who maybe complained when the show was presented will eventually buy from it.

going back to the lady try on shopping in chanel:

for me its not even about her taste or look or her selection ...its what i said to another forum member when the tacky american label appeared :

the collection should stand on its own and sure it can have weak items, but i never see in comments reply (a good taste) selection to show what she should have tried on per example, its always x person has no taste and its x person fault what she chose is bad or boring or worst.

mind you its a commercial collection so everything is made to be flattering to most people regardless of their poor taste or appearance .

i think people that work in fashion from HQ to stores there is an big gap in perception of reality corporate fashion people honesty often are no different than average clients , style office people usually like other brands than the one they work for , PR & merch tend to dress for status look. etc

so it's also different taste levels and comprehensions, outliers you have in every department of course.

i moved away in sense of holding in high regard the scolar /journalist review /points of view because in the end they also play favorites ad when i see one like allot x and it becomes blinding reviews i turn off curtly i respect non. suzy menkes was the last real deal as far as i can remember

 

[tourbillions]

And when I think of it, the last grand couturier in recent time was Alber Elbaz.

When she is not trying to channel Mcqueen and edgy, Burton could be a grand couturier. Hope she can shape up the Givenchy atelier to her mcqueen's precision.