Vanity Fair June 2015: Caitlyn Jenner by Annie Leibovitz

[russianelf]

It's already making a difference in my opinion. Think outside of America. This cover and the transitioning news are widely discussed in Russian social media right now, and while the majority of responses are downright disgusting and transphobic, there are people who express their love and support and try to make others understand and accept it.

 

[dodencebt]

I also gotta weigh in on the international issue. I live in Macedonia, which is a very conservative country compared to half of the world.

Very few people here know about TIME magazine and its covers, let alone Laverne's, but the Vanity Fair one with Caitlyn has already created an incredible amount of buzz. There has only been one public case of a transgender person over here and she has run away from the country in order to live. Believe it or not, this has been recognized all over the world.

 

[jescajade]

It absolutely will, though.

The Kardashians are the most famous family in the world. Every American knows of, keeps up with, and/or cares about the entire family - or at the very least one of the family members. The Kardashian Kraze extends to all age groups, genders, ethnicity, political views, etc. The reach is insane.

Bruce coming out as Caitlyn exposes every American to the, or at least, a, reality of being transgender. It forces pretty much every American to confront this reality. It starts a very real conversation. Conservative individuals who may have happily wished to believe that being transgender is something foreign, freakish, extreme and flamboyant now have a very real example of a relatable individual (a middle aged, white, male, Republican, athletic, family-man) who is coming out, clearing the air, making a change and is now owning their true identity. That hits close to home. That changes perspectives. That opens minds. That kind of relatability makes people think differently.

So while it's certainly fair that many are apprehensive or distant to anything coming from the Kardashian family - I don't think it's fair to discredit the importance and potential impact this cover, and Bruce's transformation in general, will have. I certainly am no Kardashian fan - in fact I've never seen a single episode of the show - but I'm not opposed to the possibility of something genuinely positive coming out of the crazy.

Neither am I, I just wonder what positive change this will make. This Vanity Fair cover would have reached a few million people, just because people have seen it does not mean they will take any action or change their views. Will everyone even know the issues here by looking at the cover?
I admit I had no idea who Caitlyn/Bruce was before this, so don’t know his background but I really don’t think the majority conservatives, republicans etc. will find it relatable, so they’re probably not going to be swayed by it.
I also question who is paying attention to it other than Kardashian fans/followers, and people in fashion? If you want to make a change you need to reach the people who aren’t already accepting, This is really just preaching to the choir.

 

[Elite13]

Neither am I, I just wonder what positive change this will make. This Vanity Fair cover would have reached a few million people, just because people have seen it does not mean they will take any action or change their views. Will everyone even know the issues here by looking at the cover?
I admit I had no idea who Caitlyn/Bruce was before this, so don’t know his background but I really don’t think the majority conservatives, republicans etc. will find it relatable, so they’re probably not going to be swayed by it.
I also question who is paying attention to it other than Kardashian fans/followers, and people in fashion? If you want to make a change you need to reach the people who aren’t already accepting, This is really just preaching to the choir.

You had no idea who Caitlyn is/was but a hell of a lot of people do. This transition is a shock to probably everyone who knew Caitlyn as Bruce Jenner, an athletic icon. Of course it's going to generate interest/debates/new ideas and opinions outside of the regular Kardashian fans. The sports industry has always been ruled by masculine mostly heterosexual, cisgender people. When one of their icons makes such a bold move, of course it's going to reach them. So no.. it's really not preaching to the choir.

 

[VersaceVixen009]

^I agree Elite13, incredibly well said. For YEARS, Caitlyn as Bruce personified the epitome of masculinity, the ultimate hetrosexual. She (formerly he) masked her (formerly his) true identity with this persona of an athletic, olympic medal-winning womanizer who loved nothing more than sports. It was a huge secret, and a successful one as when this came out as when this came out, no one else saw it coming. To hear it was all ultimately a lie and her true identity was huge burden she had to carry for all of these years is truly shocking and heartbreaking. It's incredibly admirable that after all of these years she finally wanted to "be free" and come out. Her story is incredibly inspirational, as those who identify with the way Caitlyn felt all this years can now have courage to reveal their true identity as they see her bravery. Hell, I'm sure there are some who wish to transition who mask their identity the way Caitlyn did.

Many people are losing site of how significant and brave this is because of the whole Kardashian association and how they do a lot of press talking about it. But if you know Caitlyn's story, you'll know how huge this is.

 

[A.D.C.]

But in the rush to express how wonderful the cover story is, and demonstrate their open-minded nature, it seems people have forgotten how to be tolerant of other things, like dissenting opinions. If you don't fall into line with the sentimental groupthink and start applauding, the tolerance police will be on your case, because not approving this cover means you evidently want all people back in the closet with a lock on the door and an end to social progress of any sort.

What I don't like is when people say. "Oh I don't care what people do in their bedroom as long as I don't have to hear about it!"

In essence that is essentially telling someone that they should, in fact, stay in or keep it in the closet. This cover is swinging the closet door wide open for a marginalized group. People can hate all they want but this cover will help a lot of people come out and be heard.

 

[blueorchid]

The Kardashians are the most famous family in the world. Every American knows of, keeps up with, and/or cares about the entire family - or at the very least one of the family members. The Kardashian Kraze extends to all age groups, genders, ethnicity, political views, etc. The reach is insane.

Only because the 24 hour news cycle keeps pushing them in most people's faces, let's be real here...

 

[dior_couture1245]

^^Exactly. Which is why this is making an impact. Caitlyn's Vanity Fair cover and transformation is on heavy rotation on every national channel. The exposure is insane. Every American is being exposed to the reality of someone being transgender now.

I'm not quite sure what the eye roll is for?

 

[Les_Sucettes]

^^Exactly. Which is why this is making an impact. Caitlyn's Vanity Fair cover and transformation is on heavy rotation on every national channel. The exposure is insane. Every American is being exposed to the reality of someone being transgender now.

?

Are they exposed to a transgender or are they exposed to the latest Kardashian news? Caitlyn will always be running the risk to be archived under " things the Kardashian's do" , in the same line as Kim Posing with her disgusting oily bum makes it as international news. I have trouble seeing how prejudiced people will associate her with real cases they will encounter in the real world, because she looks so remote. I think it's also important what the other poster said. the Kardashian's are omnipresent, it's true, but not because they are universally liked or admired but because they are shoved down our throats. This makes all the different.
But to be honest I like to read how positive people are in this thread and that someone good may come from that grasping family.

 

[eizhowa]

^I think the most important thing is to get people talking. A lot of prejudiced people don't want to have their beliefs challenged (or maybe I am just prejudiced about prejudiced people?).

For once, I am happy the Kardashians have the ability to show their presece down other peoples throats

 

[KoV]

You know what? I think Caitlyn has transcended Kardashian involvement. Since the cover came out, I've heard so many discussions at work, at the coffee shop I frequent, among family, and on social media about Caitlyn and people who do not care at all about the Kardashians care about this. Bruce Jenner was a hugely important, internationally-known symbol not just of athletic excellence, but of of American pride (when he won the decathlon, the cold war was in full swing and if I'm not mistaken, that had typically been a sport where the Soviets were dominant). I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who hasn't heard the name "Caitlyn Jenner" in the past few days. And that is real, tangible, progress for the trans community. I've always felt that one major reason people are homophobic, racist, etc. is because they aren't familiar enough with the objects of their hate/contempt/bias. A well known, beloved, "masculine" sports icon revealing herself as a woman is huge. It familiarizes people with the idea of being trans. It tells (ignorant) people it's not some scary, freakish thing, and it doesn't feed into the stereotype that only men who are seen as "effeminate" are part of the LGBTQ community.

I live in a mid-western state, where the majority of the population is Christian, Republican, and not as accepting of change as they should be. Caitlyn Jenner has opened up the floodgates for discussions that never would have been had otherwise. I've heard some very nasty things directed at her, but I've also heard people countering that with positive things. But really, I think the best part of this cover and the show she is promoting is that there's a very good chance it will inspire others of all ages to be themselves and to not be so afraid. I've personally found it very inspiring. Never underestimate the effect pop culture has on our society and the good that can be done when a celebrity uses their fame for good.

 

[Les_Sucettes]

You know what? I think Caitlyn has transcended Kardashian. Bruce Jenner was a hugely important, internationally-known symbol not just of athletic excellence

Are you kidding me? Jenner abroad is solely known for the Kardashian's. I trust you when you say that he has a persona outside the reality show in America, but internationally he's solely one of the clan. And as expected transgender activists are already objecting to the association. Let's stop pretending he's some sort of Michael Jordan.

 

[MON]

The question now is: what will Caitlyn do with the platform she has? All the messages, lessons, conversations, change (big or small) [if any], would be put to waste if she doesn't do anything starting now. Change can be brought about not just by posing on the cover of VF, but by utilizing the "power" and all the media backing she has to bring about change. I still admire her courage and I still think she's brave and inspiring, but this might or might not change once she starts doing something more about the issue.

 

[ronjaaa]

Good her her that finally she can be the real her
The only thing im a bit tired of is the media and how they report about this nonstop, its getting a bit too much now We got the message when it came out, now enough is enough

 

[tigerrouge]

It would be interesting to check back in with this thread after a certain length of time, after we've seen what the effects have been.

It's great that it starts a conversation, but talk is cheap, and doesn't necessarily lead to properly important events happening, like changes to legislation, which allow people to conduct their lives on the same level as everyone else, in legal terms.

For instance, in my part of the world, there has been a lot of media coverage about women dying needlessly from lack of certain medical facilities. Most people are compassionate. Since then, has one thing changed about the legal process? Nope. All the talk is for nothing. All the sentiment is for nothing. All that media coverage hasn't created any real outcome, where it matters, in the legal system.

And this is where my cynicism comes from. It's good to talk, but sometimes, it takes a lot more than talk. This cover is great, but it might not be the Second Coming. There's a world of difference between a fad that fills the pages for a fortnight, and really making a difference to people's lives, where it counts. That can take serious work - usually by unsung people - rather than by someone starring in a TV series.

 

[pixiedust1603]

It would be interesting to check back in with this thread after a certain length of time, after we've seen what the effects have been.

It's great that it starts a conversation, but talk is cheap, and doesn't necessarily lead to properly important events happening, like changes to legislation, which allow people to conduct their lives on the same level as everyone else, in legal terms.

For instance, in my part of the world, there has been a lot of media coverage about women dying needlessly from lack of certain medical facilities. Most people are compassionate. Since then, has one thing changed about the legal process? Nope. All the talk is for nothing. All the sentiment is for nothing. All that media coverage hasn't created any real outcome, where it matters, in the legal system.

And this is where my cynicism comes from. It's good to talk, but sometimes, it takes a lot more than talk. This cover is great, but it might not be the Second Coming. There's a world of difference between a fad that fills the pages for a fortnight, and really making a difference to people's lives, where it counts. That can take serious work - usually by unsung people - rather than by someone starring in a TV series.

^I think there is a massive difference. Being transgender is not illegal, it is just not really understood as society is so rooted in the binaries of male and female.

What I've really appreciated about Caitlyn being so open with her experience is the simple fact that its helped people talk about gender as opposed to sexuality and sex. I think her Sawyer interview really explained it well and it was the first time that I've seen gender talked about in such a way in popular discourse. Everyone is so used to talking in binaries and assuming that the sex that we are born in is the gender that we should assume forever, even if that doesn't feel right. That is simply not the case however it was mostly talked by the likes of Judith Butler as opposed to on E news or in normal conversation.

 

[Benn98]

Are you kidding me? Jenner abroad is solely known for the Kardashian's. I trust you when you say that he has a persona outside the reality show in America, but internationally he's solely one of the clan. And as expected transgender activists are already objecting to the association. Let's stop pretending he's some sort of Michael Jordan.

God, thanks for this. I keep on hearing what a legend Bruce is, and yet I only ever heard of him when that wretched family started dominating popular culture. Perhaps he's only a legend for Americans?

 

[vanpersie]

I guess it work both ways. For the younger generation he will be one of them and there for talk about this a lot, for the older generation and the ones interested or study sporthistory he will be the one who won a golden medal during the cold war. Historywise that's a huge moment, probably bigger then Jordans career (who i knew first from Spacejam)
My parents know Bruce but don't know the Kardashians. Same for my grandparents. We don't live in the USA but a masculine sportshero (cause even in the western europe there seems to be no transgender or gay men in the soccerworld, well 1 I believe) who did this. Lot to talk about and maybe it helps younger people to tell their family? I don't know.

For me he will be first a hero, then one of then..

 

[mcmarket]

Go you Caitlin

 

[Les_Sucettes]

I guess it work both ways. For the younger generation he will be one of them and there for talk about this a lot, for the older generation and the ones interested or study sporthistory he will be the one who won a golden medal during the cold war. Historywise that's a huge moment, probably bigger then Jordans career (who i knew first from Spacejam)

No one is comparing achievements here, that would be an enormously stupid discussion. We are talking of mainstream sportsman. Bruce Jenner internationally was not a mainstream sportsmen, people have really naive to think his sports career matter in any way or form outside America, now he is a Kardashian. She makes the news worldwide as a Kardashian, so that obviously makes some people uncomfortable. Michael Jordan's popularity, regardless what he endorses, will always be derived worldwide by the fact he's a legendary basketball player, not because she married into a reality show.