Best Sunscreen

[rayoflight]

I know there have been discussions in the past as to how much sunscreen someone should be applying to the face...I'm wondering what everyone's opinions are on moisturizer with SPF? How much moisturizer with SPF would I need to apply to my face in order to ensure the SPF is doing it's job?

Same amount as with "traditional sunscreen", 'cause the way I understand it, SPF and the other ratings (depending on where you live) depend on theoretical/practical test with the concentration of filters within the vehicle, whether it's a moisturizing cream or some ultra-thin liquid.
However, one thing I have noticed, often, not always, the combinations of moisturizers and sunscreens isn't very up-to date, meaning the moisturizers with built-in sunscreen relays on inferior filter combinations. For example, La Roche Posay has upgraded their Anthelios sunscreen line a couple times adding better filers and throwing out less stable ones, but the moisturizers with built-in sunscreens like Derm Ox or Rosaliac line still use filter cocktails I wouldn't trust as my only protection, even indoors. Also, moisturizers+sunscreens products tend to prefer chemical-only filters because they aren't whitening or otherwise unsightly, but that also means aren't as long lasting (photostable) as physical (zinc, titanium) or hybrid (Tinosorb M), meaning, unless frequently reapplied, moisturizer+sunscreen won't protect skin or protection with be partial = no good.
Consequently, I always use a "real" and trustworthy sunscreen, even if it's less convenient and I have a slightly visible layer of 'something' on my face. I feel I do get better protection and never get any color any more, so it work perfectly for me.

 

[Liya]

^^^ Thanks for the info! I acutally just bought a physical sunscreen because, like you, I feel physical sunscreens are more reliable than chemical ones.

 

[ThisIsAYes]

definitely something with zinc in. It's annoying because it doesn't rub well but your skin will thank you ;-)

 

[Liya]

One more question:

My sunscreen has Zinc Oxide (physical sunblock),Octisalate and Octinoxate (chemical UVB absorber). It seems to me that the sunscreen is a combination of both physicial and chemical sunscreens. I find it it doesn't provide enough moisturize by itself and would like to use moisturizer as well but don't know when to apply the moisturizer. What I've been reading is that physical sunscreen is to be applied last, over top of the moisturizer and chemical sunscreen needs to be applied to bare skin in order to work. I'm officially confused as to when I'd apply my moisturizer so my sunscreen will be effective

That was my last question, I promise!

 

[rayoflight]

Sunscreen needs to remain on the surface to work, regardless of whether it's chemical or physical, or a mix of both. It's what all sunscreen formulators fight to achieve, to keep the filters from falling off skin or getting absorbed, or diluted by sebum/sweat... It's one of the reasons why best sunscreens use encapsulated and coated filters, to keep them *on skin*. Also, when sunscreens gets rubbed (as in really rubbed, practically ground in) in skin it looses up 50% of it's effectiveness (you get Spf 10 out of Spf 20, at best). They are not meant to be in skin.
There is this rather weird rumor going around that chemical filters get absorbed by cells and protect them that way, but that's not sunscreen filters work...
Fun fact... One Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology article also instructs to apply sunscreen before going into sun and then add another layer after 15-30 in sun to achieve best possible protection. I sometimes do that as well, a double layer is better! Especially when I expect extended sun exposure, like in car or something like that.
If you were to apply sunscreen and then add something on top, like a moisturizer, you risk diluting the filters or removing them and thus canceling out the protection.

 

[KamenKutak]

Anyone tried La Mer "The SPF 30 UV Protecting Fluid"??

 

[etceteraism]

UV Essentiel SPF 50? Bottle lasts less than 2 weeks with proper use for both face and neck.

How much are you using??? I use what I read was the proper face dosage (1/4-1/3 of a teaspoon) and a bottle lasts me months. Then again, in winter I don't put much on my neck because I wear a scarf all the time. But still, I believe you're using way too much!

 

[rayoflight]

How much are you using??? I use what I read was the proper face dosage (1/4-1/3 of a teaspoon) and a bottle lasts me months. Then again, in winter I don't put much on my neck because I wear a scarf all the time. But still, I believe you're using way too much!

LoL, IMHO, there is no such thing as too much sunscreen!
Seriously, face+neck it's roughly 1/2 teaspoon of sunscreen each time for me. Or ~2.5 ml (cc, if you prefer). Which can be measured out with a syringe or something like that. It's a lot in the end, 4-5x more than people usually use and what I used to put on before I actually measured it. The Chanel ss in question comes in a 30 ml bottle, it's tiny. That it lasts less than 2 weeks on me, and also tells that I'm very bad at re-applying it regularly.
However, what you said confuses me... Even if you'd said it lasts you a month I'd suspect you don't use enough. You said months, and that I can not understand. Unless you bought some XL bottle of that sunscreen. Here's why: 1/4 teaspoon=1.25 ml/cc; 1/3 tsp=1.7 ml/cc. Divide 30 ml (the bottle amount you got) through 1.25 (the amount you apply) and you get 24 applications. Or ~18 applications out of the 1.7 m amount.

 

[pavonine]

rayofsunlight, have you tried out the Institut Esthederm Photo Reverse range? It's supposed to be excellent from the reviews I've read.

It's pricey, about £55 for 150ml, and they recommend you to keep reapplying it every two hours, but apparently worth every penny. Esthederm aren't big into advertising and it's pretty much an unheard of brand stateside, and utterly impossible to find in stores here. One can only order it online from UK online retailers which ship to the States or through Amazon (and pay about $15 more per product ).

These products contain no SPF but contain patented technology which uses the sun to help reverse the pigmentation process and gradually lighten skin.

An ultra-high protection formula that blocks almost all of the sun’s radiation and helps reverse the pigmentation process to gradually lighten the skin. Resists water and perspiration.

Directions for use: Apply evenly to the face and neckline 20 minutes before exposure. Renew aaplication every 2 hours.

Patents and associated actives:

Photo Reverse: Palmaria palmata oligosaccharides, Melanostatin, Andrographolide.
UV Invellium Technology: Internal protection: High definition hydrolysed proteins, Nucleotides of natural origin, Tocotrienol, Creatine, Vitamin complex, 18-β-glycyrrhetinic acid. External protection: Combination of filters and screens.
Cellular Water: Water, ATP, Carnosine, mineral salts.

Sisley is another brand which make silly expensive sunscreens ($160 for 40ml ), but that's just way past my price point. I don't believe in spending more than at most $100 on a beauty/cosmetic product, and besides I don't burn at all, so I don't see the point of splurging on a sunscreen.



...

 

[hautechild]

Has anyone tried Protection Naturelle Spf 46 by Chantecaille? A powder sunscreen is really interesting to me but I'm kind of skeptical about how well it would work.

I have problems with suncreens either making my skin chalky or making it really reflective.

 

[tigmeg]

Anyone tried La Mer "The SPF 30 UV Protecting Fluid"??

I'm using it at the moment, it's quite nice on but I'm not convinced it's worth the money so far...

 

[rayoflight]

rayofsunlight, have you tried out the Institut Esthederm Photo Reverse range? It's supposed to be excellent from the reviews I've read.

It's pricey, about £55 for 150ml, and they recommend you to keep reapplying it every two hours, but apparently worth every penny. Esthederm aren't big into advertising and it's pretty much an unheard of brand stateside, and utterly impossible to find in stores here. One can only order it online from UK online retailers which ship to the States or through Amazon (and pay about $15 more per product ).

These products contain no SPF but contain patented technology which uses the sun to help reverse the pigmentation process and gradually lighten skin.



Sisley is another brand which make silly expensive sunscreens ($160 for 40ml ), but that's just way past my price point. I don't believe in spending more than at most $100 on a beauty/cosmetic product, and besides I don't burn at all, so I don't see the point of splurging on a sunscreen.



...

Truth be told, I don't like Institut Esthederm sunscreens. I'm sensitive to one filter they use (oxybenzone) and they are too heavy on skin and contain a ton of unproven or questionable ingredients among very few good ones (I mean, as far free radical neutralization and protection against UVA/B damage goes, nothing philosophical like whether the stuff in 'natural' or not). A dozen extracts and cosmetic ingredients with supposed antioxidant properties won't make up for poor UV filter choices. The lack of a normal rating system for sun protection is confusing, even though they have all the common sunscreen filters, mostly unstable chemical ones (avobenzone, oxybenzone, octocrylene, octinoxate in most of their products). Personally I think their filter combinations to be very outdated, by 10 years of so, compared to pharmacy brands (Bioderma, Ladival) or department store sunscreen lines which have so much better stuff in them, like Clarins.
As far their sunscreens go, Adaptasun for sensitive skin was the only from their line I'd consider using, 'cause it has zinc, titanium and octinoxate, which together have shown to provide very good level of protection.

Better doesn't doesn't always equate more expensive, most of the higher priced lines, La Prairie, Elemis, Darphin, Valmont, Kanebo, Guerlain have crap sunscreens, last I looked. I do hope they at least intend to upgrade. For their prices one would expect state of art formulas and superior protection, but that ain't so. Sisley sun line is not the best either, as much as I love a couple of their other products, their sunscreens are really mediocre. I'd use something better for my skin. One reason a SA once gave me was that these expensive brands are global and can only use filters that are allowed all over the world, so they allegedly can't put more advanced filters in their products. Dunno if that's true, since other global brands happen to successfully customize their formulas for specific regions, Japan, EU, USA (for better or for worse).

 

[pavonine]

But isn't Adaptasun supposed to be a tanning lotion? I don't tan easily, and don't wish to, either as I reckon a tan wouldn't suit my colouring.

I've heard that Invisible Zinc range from Australia do make decent sunscreens. You haven't sampled that range, have you? And what do you generally think about organic/natural non-micronised mineral sunscreens, like the Neal's Yard Rose one?

Re expensive brands. I'm rather sceptical of their effectiveness, especially after the La Mer debacle. The most expensive skincare products I own are the Sisley Black Rose Cream Mask, Oskia's Bed Time Beauty Boost, Emma Hardie Moringa Cleansing Balm and Biologique Recherche's Créme PIGM, but these were one-offs for all intents and purposes. Personally, I think brands like Darphin, Nude, Aesop, Decleor, Esthederm and Elemis are more middle end than high-end as only few of their products fall in the ultra expensive bracket, whilst brands like La Prairie, Chantecaille, Natura Bisse, Omorovicza, Visoanska, Valmont, Kanebo, SK II, Joelle Ciocco, La Mer, Sisley, Sunday Riley et al - basically anything which asks for more than $70 for 50ml of a face cream, or more than $30 for 100ml of a cleanser. Though I guess the jury's still out on expensive products, personally, the brands which work the best on me are ones like Bioderma, La Roche Posay, Alpha H and Nuxe.

 

[rayoflight]

But isn't Adaptasun supposed to be a tanning lotion? I don't tan easily, and don't wish to, either as I reckon a tan wouldn't suit my colouring.

I've heard that Invisible Zinc range from Australia do make decent sunscreens. You haven't sampled that range, have you? And what do you generally think about organic/natural non-micronised mineral sunscreens, like the Neal's Yard Rose one?

Re expensive brands. I'm rather sceptical of their effectiveness, especially after the La Mer debacle. The most expensive skincare products I own are the Sisley Black Rose Cream Mask, Oskia's Bed Time Beauty Boost, Emma Hardie Moringa Cleansing Balm and Biologique Recherche's Créme PIGM, but these were one-offs for all intents and purposes. Personally, I think brands like Darphin, Nude, Aesop, Decleor, Esthederm and Elemis are more middle end than high-end as only few of their products fall in the ultra expensive bracket, whilst brands like La Prairie, Chantecaille, Natura Bisse, Omorovicza, Visoanska, Valmont, Kanebo, SK II, Joelle Ciocco, La Mer, Sisley, Sunday Riley et al - basically anything which asks for more than $70 for 50ml of a face cream, or more than $30 for 100ml of a cleanser. Though I guess the jury's still out on expensive products, personally, the brands which work the best on me are ones like Bioderma, La Roche Posay, Alpha H and Nuxe.

Not sure what they understand under a 'tanning lotion' exactly, but Adaptasun does contain perfectly common sunscreen filters and other ingredients that prevent pigment formation (in theory, anyway) like licorice extracts and so on. Nothing unique or extraordinary. Or tan-stimulating... Maybe Adaptasun contains less filters than No sun and their other sun products, but IMO it's total nonsense to sell partial/minimal protection that supposedly stimulates something or does other physiologically inconceivable stuff.

Mineral/physical filters are my first choice for sunscreen, either zinc or titanium and I try to make sure that the sunscreen filters are coated, both chemical and physical ones. Every single test I've seen so far, uncoated vs coated filters - coated turned out to be way more stable, resulting in better and longer lasting protection. Even zinc oxide, when it's micronized (ones that leave a kinda noticeable milky layer on skin and are in 99% of zinc oxide sunscreens these days, can't escape them) or nano-sized (completely clear ones, getting more rare each day due to bad press) - it looses some % of it's photostability (depending on the particle size, formula, UV irradiation and so on), the smaller or less visible the particles the less stable they are. Old fashioned bulk zinc is most stable and offers best protection, but since looks like a proverbial geisha mask on skin, not useful in everyday life. But since most zinc sunscreens come from "natural" brands, they avoid most coatings, 'cause they aren't natural (yet they don't shy away from nano and micro technologies), and in the end consumer suffers, buys some totally "natural" sunscreen with 15-20% or so zinc oxide in it and yet skin still tans. On the other hand some more mainstream brand with 7-9% zinc and some other filter in it give better protection. And that stuff is important to me, I don't have time to re-apply every 2 hours and it's almost impossible to put so much product on skin, so I opt for something that works at least 4-6 hours.

Invisible Zinc... Haven't tried yet. Not sure I will.

Expensive brands... I used to be into them, and had wonderful results with Sisley, others not so much, or no good results at all, couldn't see much difference between €300 and €50 cream, failed to see the point. Why get a La Prairie or Valmont cream if they under-perform on my skin just as miserably as Clarins. These days it's more important for me that products I use have at least some real science behind them and preferably also a skin friendly formula, not just marketing people with their empty promises. Replenix, Skinceuticals, La Roche Posay each have a couple things I can't live without, but I'm not that loyal to any brand. Each skin has different needs anyway.

 

[Gábor]

Do you guys think applying sunscreen once a day is enough? Or should I reapply it several times a day?

 

[matsuchan92]

I aint a sunblock person. I know my bad! I suffered from a sensitive skin & rosacea as a results from not wearing a sunblock So i'll have a check on some good strong sunblocks out there at the pharmacies. I'm eyeing on this sunblock from a Japanese drugstore brand named Hada Labo. Thinking to get it since it got many raves among the users

 

[moirla]

I've recently repurchased a La Roche-Posay's Athelios XL, I like it more than I remember (especially since I learned that its best to apply it on bare skin, in place of or underneath moisturizer). I also purchased the fluid version which is great for or mid-day touch ups.

 

[Bonnie Parker]

I use Shiseido - Powder - Sun Protection Compact Foundation SPF30 since 3 years and very convinced.

 

[jjbunny79]

I aint a sunblock person. I know my bad! I suffered from a sensitive skin & rosacea as a results from not wearing a sunblock So i'll have a check on some good strong sunblocks out there at the pharmacies. I'm eyeing on this sunblock from a Japanese drugstore brand named Hada Labo. Thinking to get it since it got many raves among the users

If you are suffering senstivie skin and rosacea, you might have to check the ingredient to see if they have paraben and fragrance. if you can get your hand into mineral suncreen, if might be even better.

 

[Natan]

suncream

Not sure what they understand under a 'tanning lotion' exactly, but Adaptasun does contain perfectly common sunscreen filters and other ingredients that prevent pigment formation (in theory, anyway) like licorice extracts and so on. Nothing unique or extraordinary. Or tan-stimulating... Maybe Adaptasun contains less filters than No sun and their other sun products, but IMO it's total nonsense to sell partial/minimal protection that supposedly stimulates something or does other physiologically inconceivable stuff.

Mineral/physical filters are my first choice for sunscreen, either zinc or titanium and I try to make sure that the sunscreen filters are coated, both chemical and physical ones. Every single test I've seen so far, uncoated vs coated filters - coated turned out to be way more stable, resulting in better and longer lasting protection. Even zinc oxide, when it's micronized (ones that leave a kinda noticeable milky layer on skin and are in 99% of zinc oxide sunscreens these days, can't escape them) or nano-sized (completely clear ones, getting more rare each day due to bad press) - it looses some % of it's photostability (depending on the particle size, formula, UV irradiation and so on), the smaller or less visible the particles the less stable they are. Old fashioned bulk zinc is most stable and offers best protection, but since looks like a proverbial geisha mask on skin, not useful in everyday life. But since most zinc sunscreens come from "natural" brands, they avoid most coatings, 'cause they aren't natural (yet they don't shy away from nano and micro technologies), and in the end consumer suffers, buys some totally "natural" sunscreen with 15-20% or so zinc oxide in it and yet skin still tans. On the other hand some more mainstream brand with 7-9% zinc and some other filter in it give better protection. And that stuff is important to me, I don't have time to re-apply every 2 hours and it's almost impossible to put so much product on skin, so I opt for something that works at least 4-6 hours.

Invisible Zinc... Haven't tried yet. Not sure I will.

Expensive brands... I used to be into them, and had wonderful results with Sisley, others not so much, or no good results at all, couldn't see much difference between €300 and €50 cream, failed to see the point. Why get a La Prairie or Valmont cream if they under-perform on my skin just as miserably as Clarins. These days it's more important for me that products I use have at least some real science behind them and preferably also a skin friendly formula, not just marketing people with their empty promises. Replenix, Skinceuticals, La Roche Posay each have a couple things I can't live without, but I'm not that loyal to any brand. Each skin has different needs anyway.

I have been reading your post, your experience and knowledge is amazing.
I was wondering which sun cream would you recommed? I am trying to keep away from silicone and the rest as I am using Organic Argan oil on my skin and it does wonders to my skin.
thank you