Brands That Need a Makeover/Overhaul
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Phuel
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Karl for Chanel, Armani and Dolce may be irrelevant and dead to members here, but these are probably the biggest and most coveted names to many many people in the real world, even to those that can easily afford such labels. They're not going anywhere soon.
And Olivier may be the King of Tacky Bling, but he's still going strong and to many that just love to follow trends, the involvement of Kanye and Kim is a boost to the label. And softgrey and I may agree that Loewe is a horrendous 80s nightmare-come-to-life, but there are many that are loving it-- either because they don't remember how awful 80s fashion can be and how J.W. is simply ripping off that awfulness wholesale, or they're too young to know about it. It doesn't matter, because those bags are going to sell. That's all that matters to the handlers.
I agree softgrey: Sonia Rykiel has definitely seen better days, and seems tragically lost now. A new designer, and a fresh identity is desperately needed to revitalize the charm the label once had. Along with Ungaro-- although that label may be too far far far gone to revitalize now.
And Olivier may be the King of Tacky Bling, but he's still going strong and to many that just love to follow trends, the involvement of Kanye and Kim is a boost to the label. And softgrey and I may agree that Loewe is a horrendous 80s nightmare-come-to-life, but there are many that are loving it-- either because they don't remember how awful 80s fashion can be and how J.W. is simply ripping off that awfulness wholesale, or they're too young to know about it. It doesn't matter, because those bags are going to sell. That's all that matters to the handlers.
I agree softgrey: Sonia Rykiel has definitely seen better days, and seems tragically lost now. A new designer, and a fresh identity is desperately needed to revitalize the charm the label once had. Along with Ungaro-- although that label may be too far far far gone to revitalize now.
softgrey
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i agree that chanel is fine as is and i already said what i thought about dolce in their thread...
if you get past the styling and once you get into the stores, the clothes are actually strikingly good...
and i actually saw the most amazing armani coat at barney's the other day...
softest cashmere you can imagine...
$6K...real luxury...
* but he's been rumored to be looking for someone to take over when he steps down for ages now...
so- can we add Marc Jacobs to the list?
and do we really think that oscar de la renta needs to continue without oscar?
if you get past the styling and once you get into the stores, the clothes are actually strikingly good...
and i actually saw the most amazing armani coat at barney's the other day...
softest cashmere you can imagine...
$6K...real luxury...
* but he's been rumored to be looking for someone to take over when he steps down for ages now...
so- can we add Marc Jacobs to the list?
and do we really think that oscar de la renta needs to continue without oscar?
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Phuel
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^^^ You're a brave one softgrey-- incurring the wrath of many by nominating the industry's prime darling Marc as needing an overhaul! LOL
(I think he's way too schizo to be in need of an overhaul. He'd need to stick with a style long enough, first.)
Armani on the rack is very very different from Armani in pics, I agree. If I had an unlimited shopping spree at Armani, I definitely wouldn't be complaining and would just pick and chose the pieces that fit me best. (Cashmere is also my drug of choice, so-- I understand you...)
In an ideal fashion world, once the original designer has passed, so should their label. But, that's never going to happen in the real world now is it...?
(I think he's way too schizo to be in need of an overhaul. He'd need to stick with a style long enough, first.)
Armani on the rack is very very different from Armani in pics, I agree. If I had an unlimited shopping spree at Armani, I definitely wouldn't be complaining and would just pick and chose the pieces that fit me best. (Cashmere is also my drug of choice, so-- I understand you...)
In an ideal fashion world, once the original designer has passed, so should their label. But, that's never going to happen in the real world now is it...?
fashionista-ta
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I don't think that designing for an established house has to mean a loss of creativity at all ... it's just creativity within parameters.
I see Armani in stores, and in sizes that real people wear, so I suspect it is relevant to many people's wardrobes, if not to the fashion world.
Dolce & Gabbana is kind of like Michael Kors in that they continue to offer standard themes and items year after year. I'm a fan of their polka dots, and I like that I can rely on them for that.
Victoria's Secret has been a mess for almost longer than I can remember. The brand certainly has meaning for a lot of people ... to me it's a hot pink stop sign
I see Armani in stores, and in sizes that real people wear, so I suspect it is relevant to many people's wardrobes, if not to the fashion world.
Dolce & Gabbana is kind of like Michael Kors in that they continue to offer standard themes and items year after year. I'm a fan of their polka dots, and I like that I can rely on them for that.
Victoria's Secret has been a mess for almost longer than I can remember. The brand certainly has meaning for a lot of people ... to me it's a hot pink stop sign
That's awful :-(
I refuse to believe that because I don't want to, but it's highly likely to be true. Now if you'll excuse me I'm gonna go cry in the corner and salvage what's left of my faith in humanity and play with my unicorn
Also regarding how everyone is picking the same brands, I don't find that strange I think it just shows that some brands clearly look like they have a problem
I also admit that some brands like chanel look bad more because of horrid styling than actual design. When I see the pieces in the store they don't look that bad. Dolce and gabbana isn't one of those brands, they just look bad all the time.
I do still think that chanel needs a makeover though, it's rather boring. Besides it seems like chanel would sell no matter what, with brands this big some people don't care what they look like they just want it because it's chanel
I do still think that chanel needs a makeover though, it's rather boring. Besides it seems like chanel would sell no matter what, with brands this big some people don't care what they look like they just want it because it's chanel
Not Plain Jane
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^ agree: i am still on the "overhaul chanel" bandwagon.
marc jacobs? um. i'd say give it time. now that he's gone from LV and marc by marc is reportedly ending, maybe he'll give full-on effort and focus to his eponymous line.
oscar should end. period.
so, imo, should armani, when he leaves.
so should have john galliano.
but i feel like this is overlapping a bit with another thread. [should houses close after original designer is gone...]
----------------
what do people think abut APC lately?
i was quite happy with the Lacoste show. i love tennis though.
marc jacobs? um. i'd say give it time. now that he's gone from LV and marc by marc is reportedly ending, maybe he'll give full-on effort and focus to his eponymous line.
oscar should end. period.
so, imo, should armani, when he leaves.
so should have john galliano.
but i feel like this is overlapping a bit with another thread. [should houses close after original designer is gone...]
----------------
what do people think abut APC lately?
i was quite happy with the Lacoste show. i love tennis though.
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fashionista-ta
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Lacoste should end when tennis does 
Fewormany
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They're stuck on repeat. Each collection looks like the previous.
But I think that is a part of the brands identity. Their main "innovation" is found in the collaborations.
Phuel
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fashionista-ta: Yes-- Armani works in the real world. Women of all ages, and different sizes do look very sleek in Armani. His signature drape flatters women with more generous curves as they do for women who are very thin; there's a reason why he's remained a strong empire even after all these years. The styling of his presentations may be very dated, and even unflattering to us here on this forum-- same problem that plagues his men's presentations. But in the shops, it's a different story. And more importantly, Armani sells because the real world sees his designs as timeless investment pieces-- and they are, in the real world.
I don't know if some are just judging these designers and writing them off as irrelevant because of the show pics and videos, campaigns, etc. It is important to see the pieces in person-- or, even as a separate piece offered at e-tailers. It's only then that you're able to understand a label's popularity, or lack of. Fashion needs to sell, there's no way around that. We all know that what shows up on the racks is quite different from what's in the shows we see. It's much more accessible.
Chanel is one of the handful of labels that have become a permanent institution of our modern culture. It will always sell, no matter how silly, how tiresome, and how boring Karl presents the collection. Why would they ever consider revamping its image when the world-- not just the fashion world, will buy buy buy because it's-- Chanel. I've never liked Karl nor his designs for Chanel, but that house will never fall.
Some have to remember that the strong criticism in this forum of the staleness, blandness and adamancy of high fashion in general is really just exclusive to forums like this. Even in the "real" fashion world, and by that, I mean the big luxury department stores and their similar luxury etailers, fashion remains a business to push for more profit. Always. Their customers are not always-- if ever, critical of fashion the way many are here. Givenchy, Moschino, McQueen and Balmain remain "edgy" designers to many of those affluent customers. So until those customers aren't spending anymore, Riccardo, Sarah, Olivier aren't going anywhere, nor are they going to push themselves harder, or even revamping.
Jane: APC...? It's always been just a brand that offers practical, quality basic clothes, to me anyways. Never considered them high fashion. I do like their jeans and have been wearing them for 10 years now. Lately however, I've not bothered with this brand for the last few years since they've becoming so basic, so non-discreet, they're like white noise. Do they need a revamp? Just start offering cool basics with something interesting again-- how hard is that...?
Lacoste is Lacoste-- like Alaia is Alaia. I've worn their pique polos (and socks) as far back as I can remember, and I don't think I'll stop now. Fashion trends comes and goes, Lacoste polos are eternal. Never cared for anything else of theirs. The alligator just looks wrong on anything else but the pique polos. If they decide to go the luxury-route, it could be interesting, but I'm not holding my breath.
I don't know if some are just judging these designers and writing them off as irrelevant because of the show pics and videos, campaigns, etc. It is important to see the pieces in person-- or, even as a separate piece offered at e-tailers. It's only then that you're able to understand a label's popularity, or lack of. Fashion needs to sell, there's no way around that. We all know that what shows up on the racks is quite different from what's in the shows we see. It's much more accessible.
Chanel is one of the handful of labels that have become a permanent institution of our modern culture. It will always sell, no matter how silly, how tiresome, and how boring Karl presents the collection. Why would they ever consider revamping its image when the world-- not just the fashion world, will buy buy buy because it's-- Chanel. I've never liked Karl nor his designs for Chanel, but that house will never fall.
Some have to remember that the strong criticism in this forum of the staleness, blandness and adamancy of high fashion in general is really just exclusive to forums like this. Even in the "real" fashion world, and by that, I mean the big luxury department stores and their similar luxury etailers, fashion remains a business to push for more profit. Always. Their customers are not always-- if ever, critical of fashion the way many are here. Givenchy, Moschino, McQueen and Balmain remain "edgy" designers to many of those affluent customers. So until those customers aren't spending anymore, Riccardo, Sarah, Olivier aren't going anywhere, nor are they going to push themselves harder, or even revamping.
Jane: APC...? It's always been just a brand that offers practical, quality basic clothes, to me anyways. Never considered them high fashion. I do like their jeans and have been wearing them for 10 years now. Lately however, I've not bothered with this brand for the last few years since they've becoming so basic, so non-discreet, they're like white noise. Do they need a revamp? Just start offering cool basics with something interesting again-- how hard is that...?
Lacoste is Lacoste-- like Alaia is Alaia. I've worn their pique polos (and socks) as far back as I can remember, and I don't think I'll stop now. Fashion trends comes and goes, Lacoste polos are eternal. Never cared for anything else of theirs. The alligator just looks wrong on anything else but the pique polos. If they decide to go the luxury-route, it could be interesting, but I'm not holding my breath.
Maybe franck sorbier should go to mcqueen, he's more mcqueen than Sarah Burton
Stefano pilati could be at givenchy
Aouadi could go to balmain (though it's still too early to gauge his abilities, he did work at balmain though)
Raf could go to balenciaga
Lacroix or theyskens. ..either YSL or dior (not sure if Lacroix can do YSL really)
Maybe Sarah Burton could be at Burberry
Stefano pilati could be at givenchy
Aouadi could go to balmain (though it's still too early to gauge his abilities, he did work at balmain though)
Raf could go to balenciaga
Lacroix or theyskens. ..either YSL or dior (not sure if Lacroix can do YSL really)
Maybe Sarah Burton could be at Burberry
Phuel
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^^^ Balenciaga definitely needs to regain its status as a leader again, but oh goodness, Raf should not be plaguing anymore of fashion's titanic labels with his brand of pretentious and boring mess. He's the Paul McCartney of high fashion to me: Overhyped mediocrity at its best.
His menswear offerings become more and more pretentious and unbearably silly with every new collection. The thoughtful and polished but sharp designs of the mid-2000 Raf is completely eradicated by the most unflattering and contrived mess that's come to epitomize his menswear. But it's his own label and he's free to conjure whatever silliness he chooses. Just please don't infect other labels anymore.
I get that some support him because he seems the antithesis of all that flashy, blinged-out high roller crassness that's come to represent high fashion in the public eye. Except he's not the anti-hero since he's The Chosen One of the Kerring empire. There's got to be a better figurehead of the anti-hero than what Raf has become. I find him and his fashions so unbearably forced but ultimately bland.
Sarah at Burberry Prorsum could be potentially interesting. That very proper English heritage of the label with Sarah's take on ladylike-dressing with her sweeping silhouettes would revive this once leading label which seems to be dictated solely by its stockholders, while Christopher clearly just sleepwalks from collection to collection now. But then again, if only Sarah were allowed to do what she does best at McQueen and evolve the ladylike sharp-tailoring which is very true to her style, rather than continue with the phony rehashing of McQueen the man's theatrics, I think the label would be stronger for it.
Now, Stefano Pilati at Armani could be heaven. His work for Agnona, mingled with the classic Armani-lushness and classic profile could potentially have the label at the forefront of high fashion once again. But, Armani himself seems completely content to still head his House with his outdated styling and awkward silhouettes with no sign of retiring. So we'll have to resign to Stefano doing his unflattering tribute to Armani through Zegna.
His menswear offerings become more and more pretentious and unbearably silly with every new collection. The thoughtful and polished but sharp designs of the mid-2000 Raf is completely eradicated by the most unflattering and contrived mess that's come to epitomize his menswear. But it's his own label and he's free to conjure whatever silliness he chooses. Just please don't infect other labels anymore.
I get that some support him because he seems the antithesis of all that flashy, blinged-out high roller crassness that's come to represent high fashion in the public eye. Except he's not the anti-hero since he's The Chosen One of the Kerring empire. There's got to be a better figurehead of the anti-hero than what Raf has become. I find him and his fashions so unbearably forced but ultimately bland.
Sarah at Burberry Prorsum could be potentially interesting. That very proper English heritage of the label with Sarah's take on ladylike-dressing with her sweeping silhouettes would revive this once leading label which seems to be dictated solely by its stockholders, while Christopher clearly just sleepwalks from collection to collection now. But then again, if only Sarah were allowed to do what she does best at McQueen and evolve the ladylike sharp-tailoring which is very true to her style, rather than continue with the phony rehashing of McQueen the man's theatrics, I think the label would be stronger for it.
Now, Stefano Pilati at Armani could be heaven. His work for Agnona, mingled with the classic Armani-lushness and classic profile could potentially have the label at the forefront of high fashion once again. But, Armani himself seems completely content to still head his House with his outdated styling and awkward silhouettes with no sign of retiring. So we'll have to resign to Stefano doing his unflattering tribute to Armani through Zegna.
fashionista-ta
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Armani is 81 now ...
And Lagerfeld is probably over 90, some old people just don't like to retire
fashionista-ta
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Karl is also 81.
Calvin Klein is such an obvious choice for me. Costa has really gone way so far into experimental territory that, for me, his work just doesn't even feel like Calvin Klein most of the time, at least not as I see it on the runway.
Carolina Herrera could use an injection of some fresh blood if you ask me. I always ended up comparing her line to that of Oscar de la Renta's, but Oscar's work over the last however many years always stuck out to me as the slightly cooler, fresher and more appealing take on that monied sophisticate thing. It makes Herrera's collection look much stiffer and stuffier by comparison.
Carolina Herrera could use an injection of some fresh blood if you ask me. I always ended up comparing her line to that of Oscar de la Renta's, but Oscar's work over the last however many years always stuck out to me as the slightly cooler, fresher and more appealing take on that monied sophisticate thing. It makes Herrera's collection look much stiffer and stuffier by comparison.
Phuel
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Karl is only 81...? He is so strangle-looking he's beyond the old man jokes, that he genuinely resembles an alien to me.
The Carolina Herrera label never was a thing in its prime. I don't mean that to shade her, but her designs were always targeted towards the ladies-who-lunch and reflected that cliquey style that's reserved for that privileged world. I guess if someone came along and made Herrera a coveted label now, that's never a bad thing. But it was never as if it felt as if she was Claude Montana. Now that's a label that I would love to see resurrected from the ashes of high fashion. Actually, I'd love to see a film of Claude Montana directed by Tom Ford before anything else to do with this label...
And yeah, for all Costa's graphic sharpness, I don't feel he's taking the label anywhere new for Calvin Klein.
The Carolina Herrera label never was a thing in its prime. I don't mean that to shade her, but her designs were always targeted towards the ladies-who-lunch and reflected that cliquey style that's reserved for that privileged world. I guess if someone came along and made Herrera a coveted label now, that's never a bad thing. But it was never as if it felt as if she was Claude Montana. Now that's a label that I would love to see resurrected from the ashes of high fashion. Actually, I'd love to see a film of Claude Montana directed by Tom Ford before anything else to do with this label...
And yeah, for all Costa's graphic sharpness, I don't feel he's taking the label anywhere new for Calvin Klein.
D
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How I would do this:
Galliano (MMM) -> McQueen
Olivier (Balmain) -> Versus
J. W. Anderson (Versus) -> Versace
ANYONE -> Chanel
Olivier Theyskens -> Givenchy
Galliano (MMM) -> McQueen
Olivier (Balmain) -> Versus
J. W. Anderson (Versus) -> Versace
ANYONE -> Chanel
Olivier Theyskens -> Givenchy
If Versace ever decided to overhaul their image by hiring JW Anderson I think I'd be positively inconsolable, like full-on Sicilian widow status. It needs some rejuvenating, not a frontal lobotomy.
At times I feel like Lanvin needs to change things up. The building blocks are really all there, but they're not being assembled correctly anymore. I guess partly the problem is that so much of the Lanvin/Elbaz vocab has been co-opted by fashion as a whole and is, at this point, commonplace, but a great designer should be able to recognize that and begin to move in another direction once everyone has begun to follow. I don't think Alber has done that.
At times I feel like Lanvin needs to change things up. The building blocks are really all there, but they're not being assembled correctly anymore. I guess partly the problem is that so much of the Lanvin/Elbaz vocab has been co-opted by fashion as a whole and is, at this point, commonplace, but a great designer should be able to recognize that and begin to move in another direction once everyone has begun to follow. I don't think Alber has done that.
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