Celine F/W 2022.23 Paris

[Uemarasan]

Yes - but I still think Slimane's work gets unfair criticism.

I have absolutely no delusions that I should be judging his work as a "creative proposition." This is merchandise. And what's wrong with that? But I really don't think that it's cynical, Marvel-level merchandise, truthfully. Slimane's clothes are nicely proportioned, beautifully fabricated, classically styled and very well made. That's not cynical. That's providing customers lots of versatile, staple pieces to own for many years without them going out of style or looking dated. And maybe best of all, Hedi NEVER burdens his clothes with gimmicks. I know that doesn't make for exciting viewing, but it is exactly what a lot of people would prefer to wear.

Oh, I have no problem with merchandise. I get quite a bit of merchandise from Loro Piana, Uniqlo, Reiss, Y3, and Marks & Spencer. I guess if Celine wants to position themselves among these brands in the industry, then more power to them.

 

[Lola701]

Yes - but I still think Slimane's work gets unfair criticism.

I have absolutely no delusions that I should be judging his work as a "creative proposition." This is merchandise. And what's wrong with that? But I really don't think that it's cynical, Marvel-level merchandise, truthfully. Slimane's clothes are nicely proportioned, beautifully fabricated, classically styled and very well made. That's not cynical. That's providing customers lots of versatile, staple pieces to own for many years without them going out of style or looking dated. And maybe best of all, Hedi NEVER burdens his clothes with gimmicks. I know that doesn't make for exciting viewing, but it is exactly what a lot of people would prefer to wear.

I am the kind of fashion consumer who absolutely thirsts for the fantasy and the drama and the grandeur of what fashion can be...nobody is a bigger Galliano Dior fan than me...I can still watch McQueen shows and get chills...I can get lost in the details of Olivier Theyskens' Rochas...Lacroix Couture still makes my heart skip a beat..but ultimately, that's not the way I dress, nor do I want to dress that way. Both ends of the spectrum are vitally important for fashion and both need to exist.

But I think maybe he gets a great deal of unfair criticism because of the unfair glorification of his work based, rightfully, of the great things he achieved at Dior Homme.

I really think that he was really the first one to create a kind one-brand-fits all for men. He was clever in getting bits of everything to create Dior Homme and really push at the same time a fashion proposition. When I started in fashion, a lot of men were wearing Helmut Lang, Gucci, Prada, Costume National. In the French fashion scene, everybody wore APC jeans. A shift happened around 2004/2005 when suddenly the people wearing DH started wearing it from Head to toe. And the collections presented that year had a very down-to-earth, street ready, feel to them. But it never stopped him from pushing menswear.

In a way, in womenswear, it’s different. It’s quite known here that I love Nicolas Ghesquiere. The beauty about his Balenciaga and still to this day, his Vuitton, is that you can find beautiful things to wear for your everyday life in the stores. The show is there to excite us and create a desire but if we see fashion as a creative endeavor, it can be more and more again. Ralph Lauren manages to incapsulate a certain idea of America by sending classic styles every season but you never gets the feeling that you are only looking at clothes.

Every designer can put on the runway their permanent collection every season too. They all have jeans, tailoring and separates and they all sell them well. Does that create a conversation or an excitement? No! They put in on the runway when they wants to make a statement…And that statement is usually something else than « we have it in stores ».
I’m willing to accept what Hedi’s Celine can be. I mean his second womenswear collection was perfect. I loved it, it wasn’t reinventing anything but it was strong! It doesn’t matter that I didn’t bought anything from it sand that none of the members of the modern royalty at the time didn’t understand how great was that collection to buy and wear it…

But if tomorrow, if I want to buy another classic trench coat or a simple velvet blazer, i would probably go to Celine instead of Burberry or Saint Laurent even though I think Riccardo and Vaccarello are great and good designers. And that has to do with the aura of Hedi, not because I think he is the only one who designs « real clothes for real life ».

 

[dior_couture1245]

But if tomorrow, if I want to buy another classic trench coat or a simple velvet blazer, i would probably go to Celine instead of Burberry or Saint Laurent even though I think Riccardo and Vaccarello are great and good designers. And that has to do with the aura of Hedi, not because I think he is the only one who designs « real clothes for real life ».

I feel like the difference between Hedi and, say, Riccardo or any other number of designery-designers is that - let's say, with the classic trench:

Hedi will obsess over the proportion, getting it just right until it feels like "the perfect trench coat." But he will not mess with the details, icons or fabrication of the trench coat. Someone like Riccardo (and others), have this impulse...they'll add a zipper or some novelty buttons or a printed lining or sew it up in some techy fabric to make it "designer" or "on-brand." But for me, as a consumer, those are exactly the kind of details that would absolutely stop me from even considering that purchase. I'd so much rather have this hypothetical Hedi trenchcoat that is just the right fit and looks exactly like "a trenchcoat."

I think that is Hedi's allure and appeal. All that, plus his slick and chic marketing and retail strategies...it all makes for a "nice" shopping experience. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[volft]

After Hedi defending himself on Twitter, here he is among us .

"Anyone who disagrees with me, and provides actual receipts, must be Hedi in disguise."

 

[Kimihiro]

But if tomorrow, if I want to buy another classic trench coat or a simple velvet blazer, i would probably go to Celine instead of Burberry or Saint Laurent even though I think Riccardo and Vaccarello are great and good designers. And that has to do with the aura of Hedi, not because I think he is the only one who designs « real clothes for real life ».

I think Lola nails it here. You can buy the same or more “luxe” version at Chanel or Hermes or other brands, but they’re not Hedi Slimane. What those brands say about your lifestyle, in some sense, can be interpreted as basic, even though to be honest they’re all the same simple clothes.

 

[GivenchyAddict]

"Anyone who disagrees with me, and provides actual receipts, must be Hedi in disguise."

My dear chill, you seem so tense. Enjoy a joke.

You are new here so you don't know I am a pro Hedi who buys Celine and enjoy defending his collections here. But as much I love him I know as well to be objective about his work there and its relevance in fashion.

People who don't like his collections said very much understandable and valid points .

 

[Lola701]

Just seeing how thirsted after his Celine women's ready-to-wear is makes me feel like it has more cultural impact that Saint Laurent ever did. Many designers dream to be able to create something that resonates with the customer like Hedi has. People speak with their wallets at the end of the day.

But cultural relevance has nothing to do with how people buy things.
His Saint Laurent had an impact on fashion on pop culture. Yes the commercial success contributed but it’s not only because of that. There are brands like Amiri that were born on the back of the success of his YSL.

I will again use Nicolas as an example. What he does at Vuitton sells more than everything he did at Balenciaga but in terms of cultural impact, his Balenciaga years were an all time high.

And what about someone like Margiela who never had to experience people speaking with their wallets in his entire career. But nobody can deny that he had a tremendous cultural impact.

I totally understand your love/respect for Hedi. But we also have the rights to criticize or question his work and expect more from a creative perspective. There’s nothing wrong with creating a elevated wardrobe de luxe but there’s nothing wrong with criticizing what is shown on the runway. Commercial success or not…
Otherwise, there’s no reason in being in this forum: Chanel, Vuitton, Dior, Prada, Balenciaga, Balmain, Ralph Lauren, Armani, Versace, CDG and others…They all sells. The commercial success alone should be a reason for us to not have an opinion.
I buy Vuitton RTW by Nicolas Ghesquiere since the first season and that doesn’t prevent me from having an opinion (bad or good) regarding what’s shown on the runway while knowing the reality of what’s going on in the stores and having a real understanding of the reality of the industry. Don’t assume things because of some comments. Some members here are more in tune with what’s going on in the industry than you would ever imagine…

 

[helmutnotdead]

I don’t want to sound evil because after all, I always enjoy reading you guys even tho I have big disagreements with some people here but… God knows how boring this forum would be without Lola.
Thank you for being so clear on your words and elevating the conversation with your passion and knowledge.

 

[toffie]

I'm not interested in taking the high road if someone is going to act passive-aggressive towards me. There's no need to extend that courtesy to them when it is obvious how they aren't discussing in good faith at all. Their ulterior motive is more than transparent. It is obvious that they have no genuine interest in actual discussion, besides creating an echo chamber to validate their opinions against Hedi. The fact that you're focusing more on my tone, than the information I provide, is making me skeptical about your intentions. Such a shame.

There’s absolutely no reason to be skeptical regarding my intentions towards Hedi, I actually love his Celine. That does not prevent me to completely agree with Lola’s take regarding cultural relevance, which to me seems to be lacking at Celine right now. Albeit it sells, I have this feeling the brand is not part of the fashion conversation — and not all brands need to. But as I overall root for his Celine and would love for it to resonate more, all the critics provided her are relevant.

Of course I’m biased because it’s much harder for me to know how famous Celine is getting in Asia (notably with Lisa’s contract). But Celine is unarguably not as controversial or talked about as Hedi’s SL — which does raise questions.

 

[volft]

My dear chill, you seem so tense. Enjoy a joke.

Oh, I was totally joking too with my reply to your joke. See, I can say I am joking and now you are forced to believe I was, whether I am actually joking or not. Enjoy a joke. You're awfully transparent with your intentions.

People who don't like his collections said very much understandable and valid points .

There's nothing wrong with not liking what Hedi is doing. I personally don't resonate with anything besides ss13 and fw13. But I can at least be objective enough to understand that just because I dislike something, it doesn't mean other people will dislike it. Just because something isn't for me, it doesn't mean it is bad. That is being unfair to Hedi, and the people who resonate with his work.

I have nothing against fair criticism, but I have a huge issue against unfair criticism, and creating a circlejerk to fuel an anti-Hedi boner. Criticizing Hedi's collection, without understanding his philosophy, is pretty silly. It is no different than if I personally hate pants, and I say a designer is bad because they make pants. This kind of criticism doesn't have much value.

This is the environment that basically cancelled Hedi's Celine in the west. People who like Celine, have to apologize for it, and pre-emptively say how much they love Phoebe's work.

Before I get into things, I want to make one thing clear: I love Phoebe Philo. In fact, I adore her. Worship her. Her tenure at Céline is amazing in so many ways.

Source: CELINE Might Just Be Better Than Céline

This is just getting ridiculous at this point.

There are brands like Amiri that were born on the back of the success of his YSL

To be more accurate, there are brands like Amiri that were born on the back of Hedi's work, period. Since he moved on to Celine, I see a lot of Hedi's Celine in Amiri's work.

Amiri is an Hedi copycat, and will rip off Hedi wherever Hedi goes.

I totally understand your love/respect for Hedi. But we also have the rights to criticize or question his work and expect more from a creative perspective. There’s nothing wrong with creating a elevated wardrobe de luxe but there’s nothing wrong with criticizing what is shown on the runway. Commercial success or not…

There's nothing wrong with being curious about his process, and questioning why he does what he does. However, the general mood of many members here seem more interested in crucifying Hedi, rather than wanting to understand him with an open mind. I had to bring receipts in order to have a chance to be taken seriously. People who crucify Hedi don't need to bring in anything. Their feelings and opinion are all that's needed. This is a very unhealthy state to have any productive discussions.

 

[volft]

That does not prevent me to completely agree with Lola’s take regarding cultural relevance, which to me seems to be lacking at Celine right now. Albeit it sells, I have this feeling the brand is not part of the fashion conversation — and not all brands need to. But as I overall root for his Celine and would love for it to resonate more, all the critics provided her are relevant.

This thread is one of the more active threads in this forum, so that speaks volumes. If by "fashion conversation" you mean brands who do conceptual fashion, then that kind of thing was never really what Hedi believes in since 2007.

It seems to me that most of the critical reaction was provoked by the fact that your first collection represented a break from conceptual fashion, which had dominated the runways for the previous decade. Change always tends to incite controversy. Why did you feel this was the moment for a new direction in fashion?

I can only speak for myself, and there are many different perceptions of what is current in fashion.

I was just doing other creative projects for many years other than design, and I observed fashion shifting toward a sense of abstraction. There was also simultaneously this global evolution toward “Everything contemporary.“

The digital shift in architecture that occurred in the early ‘00s, but also in furniture design, illustrator or 3D fashion design, the explosion of the contemporary art scene and collector frenzy started to feel generic. I lost interest for everything “contemporary” or vaguely conceptual-related around 2007 (which does not mean I don’t follow interesting things happening along those lines today, it is a general concern).

I felt there was a need to move forward to something “post-contemporary,” so to speak, escaping a picture-perfect-puritan area. Something like what came after the influence of Space Age in the late 60s. The shift was rather on the street, a gap of generations.

My change of perspective happened through photography at first, going back to a sense of reality, unprocessed, and developed to all things designed and/or artistic.

The early ‘00s were long gone and I felt disconnected to something that for me looked somehow from the past, even if I had been active, excited, and part of this movement at the time.

I would now rather explore an analog world, that could bypass the botoxed-digital revolution, an alternative aesthetic that feels emotional, moving and warm, slightly wrong or chaotic at times. Anything but a deadly digital flat screen world.

Of course I’m biased because it’s much harder for me to know how famous Celine is getting in Asia (notably with Lisa’s contract). But Celine is unarguably not as controversial or talked about as Hedi’s SL — which does raise questions.

I would argue that Hedi's Celine is more controversial than his Saint Laurent in the west. Hedi's Celine was cancelled unfairly from the get go in the west. I speculate that this is one reason why there isn't as much talk in the west compared to his Saint Laurent. I also suspect that, before Hedi took over both houses, Céline was a more niche brand than Yves Saint Laurent. Yves Saint Laurent was more culturally relevant than Céline. I feel like there were more luxury consumers who knew about Yves Saint Laurent without knowing about Céline, than luxury consumers who knew about Céline without also knowing about Yves Saint Laurent.

If you are curious about how Celine is doing in Asia, send me a DM and we can discuss further. I'm always interested to talk with and learn from genuine Hedi fans.

 

[Phuel]

I feel like the difference between Hedi and, say, Riccardo or any other number of designery-designers is that - let's say, with the classic trench:

Hedi will obsess over the proportion, getting it just right until it feels like "the perfect trench coat." But he will not mess with the details, icons or fabrication of the trench coat. Someone like Riccardo (and others), have this impulse...they'll add a zipper or some novelty buttons or a printed lining or sew it up in some techy fabric to make it "designer" or "on-brand." But for me, as a consumer, those are exactly the kind of details that would absolutely stop me from even considering that purchase. I'd so much rather have this hypothetical Hedi trenchcoat that is just the right fit and looks exactly like "a trenchcoat."

I think that is Hedi's allure and appeal. All that, plus his slick and chic marketing and retail strategies...it all makes for a "nice" shopping experience. Nothing more, nothing less.

Excellent point. Never could tolerate over-designed, over-embellished, and simply overdone fashions compensating as high end. It’s very low-end actually, to over-design. Much like the clownwear that is accepted as high faSHON these days by the style-bankrupted children.

Good for those that can and do spend on extravagant “fashion” statements, showpieces that have no longevity and end up so last Season the moment that the new collection is shown. I don’t wish to look like a walking advertisement for any label— nor do I desperately wish to advertise to strangers whom I'm wearing. That, and I mostly wear just a t-shirt and pants if I can get away with it. (But the t-shirt has to fit just right and the pants have to be cut to flatter in both proportion and fit.)

Aside from personal tastes and preferences on what one chooses to adorn oneself with on a daily basis, this need for designers/brands to always produce “groundbreaking” fashions/shows/campaigns is so exhausting— along with such highest of creative standards being non-existent in this fashion era LOL The greater designer are well aware of these dire days, and someone like Olivier Theyskens isn’t even bothered to produce the brand of glorious and gorgeous he was known for. Then there’s someone like Ghesquire, who I’m convinced is just trolling the fashion victims because he can. No way is that slop he’s dressing his squad in the best of what he’s able to offer. I’ll still buy Tom Ford before any others, but my god— his branding and presentations are on the level of Tyra’s ANTM trash. And Virginie and Nadege are doing everything to reform luxury as dowdy, frumpy and dumpty slop and gets away with it as long as they’re branded. Then there’s Hedi’s Celine: For women, it’s classic, discreetly opulent, and flatteringly minimal. That, and he’s doing Chanel and Hermes better than those two women could ever dream of doing. Of course it’s not in the creative standards of his YSL Men and Dior Homme. But we’re also not in the 2000s anymore. His Celine feels effortlessly relevant to the times, and still transcendent of the common. I hope he stays on this trajectory. I’ll take the non-fussy, effortless and decadent old-money branding and offering to any other brand’s desperately-seeking-the-approval-of-the-commoners any time, any day, anywhere.

 

[dior_couture1245]

I also always have this idea that it has to look vaguely wrong to feel right. There is the fine line for anything to feel authentic. This is for me the most important inner quality in design, probably informed by photography.

A designer leather or suede jacket for instance is difficult to wear unless it feels it has always been there, believable, and authentic enough.

It takes also forever to make the clothes look like they have always belonged, the credibility of it all. It is an expertise that you keep pushing. You try until it feels just right, and will age accordingly, looking better with time, and looking like you own the clothes you wear. This principle of authenticity applies to everything.

Thank you, @volft , for this interview snippet from Hedi. I really like that, despite never having read that, it is quite obvious that that is his intention…goes to show that not only is it his intention, but he’s rather successful at it, since, again, without having read that interview, I was well aware that that is what he aims to -and does- accomplish in his work.

I really admire his pursuit of authenticity. It is something a lot more designers could stand to consider. I am always so bothered by most designer clothes now - they really feel like alien clothes - there is no soul, no sense of reality or actuality to them. Nothing that tethers them to reality. It all looks like fake clothing. This is not code word for “wearability,” but it is instead a more effervescent quality…rather hard to describe, has more to do with a gut instinct and reaction to the product. It’s exactly what Hedi says…in some way the item needs to looks as if it’s always existed. A Galliano bias cut ruffled chiffon dress has this same quality, for example. Olivier Theyskens Fall 2022 collection has the same appeal…they’re real clothes. It’s some perfect combination of the right fabrication, the right fit, the right references and the right details. Very delicate balance and requires a very astute and honed eye to actualize it.

I know this is all a very heady (pun intended lol) and nuanced way of thinking about fashion...but it is what it is.

 

[jeanclaude]

Imagine thinking that there is only one single type of luxury consumer, and they are a monolithic that all think the same. One combo I see all the time are on Instagram are girls with Hermès bags and Celine ready-to-wear. I don't understand if you're intentionally obtuse, and only want to see things as black and white, or you're genuinely unaware. Your view on luxury consumers is overly simplistic, and really reveals that it is something foreign to you, if you think all luxury retail customers don't care about spending as much money as possible. Times change. Tastes change. What was once a staple, can lose favour amongst younger consumers.

Dear, you talk about being closed minded in regard to Hedi´s work at Celine here...but you are unable to see yourself in the mirror. You write like an acolyte from a Hedi Slimane sect: no matter what Mr.Slimane makes, it is going to be good just because it is coming from him.

I can understand and respect the fact that you are in love with his work...but what I won´t understand is your fanatic point of view about it. You are totally lacking a basic sense of criticism.

You are unable (or just don´t want) to see the fact that nowadays Celine just offers vintage carbon-copies from different sources; and vile rip-offs from other luxury brands.
I find it very funny you claim "What was once a staple, can lose favour amongst younger consumers"...my dear, they are just buying cheaper imitations of Chanel jackets and Hermès handbags! The same staples, with just a different logo.

By the way, Celine´s tweed Chanel-esque jackets still look like a feminine jacket, no matter what kind of guy wears it. There´s nothing bad with men wearing womenswear; but don´t try to tell me that just because it is coming from Hedi it looks masculine and modern (it still looks like a dude borrowing from his granny´s wardrobe).

You are in this forum to rant against anyone who dares to oppose Slimane work at Celine. You defend him telling us about sales numbers, about how he dresses rancid european royals (straight from the pages of any random "Hello" magazine); and about how many "cool" Instagram girls love his stuff.
You are a victim of basic marketing, just caring about how much money Celine makes (it can be faked, by the way), celebrity endorsements; and Instagram influencers (under contract to shout to anyone how wonderful Celine is).

But you know what? I don´t swallow all your arguments. All I care is about design (that´s why I´m a member of this forum); and there´s no design in Slimane´s Celine. He is very good at selling smoke, mirrors and marketing...but there´s no substance behind it all.

Do you like Slimane at Celine? It´s ok! But don´t try to sell it to me, because I am not buying it!

 

[Vitamine W]

I never liked Hedi, never liked his fixation on sick looking music groupies. Kinda hated actually. I confess.
I'm feeling this Celine woman though. In fact If I was a girl, it would be exactly how I'd wanna dress. Probably also re price category. And for the exact reasons dear Phuel described so adequately.
Very much appreciate the passionate discours in here dissecting my own perceptions.

Another aspect of the Celine figures might be the retail structure.
In my experience the instant generation will not sign up for a 1,5 year waiting at Hermes.

 

[jeanclaude]

^^
They can buy vintage, it is sustainable (another "instant generation" obsession) and a quick way of getting their hands on Hermès handbags.

 

[volft]

...my dear, they are just buying cheaper imitations of Chanel jackets and Hermès handbags!

If we break it down, everyone is building on the ideas and concepts of previous designs. Nothing is truly original. Hedi's tweed jackets aren't based on Chanel jackets per se, they are actually based on Céline Vipiana's original designs.

Now what Céline Vipiana based this design on, I don't know for certain. It is possible that this was her version of a Chanel tweed jacket. I don't think Chanel owns the rights to tweed jackets, and anyone who does is just drinking the Kool-Aid of Chanel's brand.

Hedi's Celine bags aren't based on Hermès bags per se, they are based on Céline Vipiana's original designs. But looking at vintage Celine bags, it is obvious that Céline Vipiana was a fan of Hermès designs, particularly the Kelly.

Combining this with another vintage Celine design:

Was likely how Hedi's 16 was born:

Hedi is actually very respectful to the original founder's vision of the brand with his work at Celine. How you might judge the original founder's vision is up to your own interpretation.

By the way, Celine´s tweed Chanel-esque jackets still look like a feminine jacket, no matter what kind of guy wears it. There´s nothing bad with men wearing womenswear; but don´t try to tell me that just because it is coming from Hedi it looks masculine and modern (it still looks like a dude borrowing from his granny´s wardrobe).

You're wrong in thinking that it looks exactly like a Chanel jacket. The devils in the details.

These Chanel jackets carry more feminine elements than Hedi's chasseur jackets, in general. The material choice, and design, make the Celine jackets look a lot more sleek and minimalistic than the Chanel tweed jackets.

There's a more androgynous and unisex vibe to it, compared to the Chanel tweed jackets. There are less embellishments and frills, in general.

 

[Lola701]

^^
There are many alterations of the Chanel jacket but to me, it’s more unisex than the Celine.
Remember, Hedi creates a permanent collection. At Chanel, the classic black jacket as featured on the book can be purchased only through HC.

They made versions for the resort in St Tropez and the Paris in Rome.

Celine was never a major fashion house, once again. So, it make sense that her stuff wasn’t original.

I don’t want to sound evil because after all, I always enjoy reading you guys even tho I have big disagreements with some people here but… God knows how boring this forum would be without Lola.
Thank you for being so clear on your words and elevating the conversation with your passion and knowledge.

Thank you my dear for your kind words.
It’s a joint effort. What makes it worth it is to come and see interesting, informative and sometimes shady but very entertaining comments from members like you and others, from @GivenchyAddict to @jeanclaude or from @Phuel to @MulletProof or @Frederic01 And @YohjiAddict among others that I won’t mention because the list will be quite long. But there are names we see regularly on the comments who makes it worth and for me it’s good to see different perspectives.

Debates are only interesting if we are willing to have our point of view challenged.

 

[jeanclaude]

If we break it down, everyone is building on the ideas and concepts of previous designs. Nothing is truly original. Hedi's tweed jackets aren't based on Chanel jackets per se, they are actually based on Céline Vipiana's original designs.
Now what Céline Vipiana based this design on, I don't know for certain. It is possible that this was her version of a Chanel tweed jacket. I don't think Chanel owns the rights to tweed jackets, and anyone who does is just drinking the Kool-Aid of Chanel's brand.

Hedi's Celine bags aren't based on Hermès bags per se, they are based on Céline Vipiana's original designs. But looking at vintage Celine bags, it is obvious that Céline Vipiana was a fan of Hermès designs, particularly the Kelly.

Combining this with another vintage Celine design:
Was likely how Hedi's 16 was born:
Hedi is actually very respectful to the original founder's vision of the brand with his work at Celine. How you might judge the original founder's vision is up to your own interpretation.

You're wrong in thinking that it looks exactly like a Chanel jacket. The devils in the details.
These Chanel jackets carry more feminine elements than Hedi's chasseur jackets, in general. The material choice, and design, make the Celine jackets look a lot more sleek and minimalistic than the Chanel tweed jackets.
There's a more androgynous and unisex vibe to it, compared to the Chanel tweed jackets. There are less embellishments and frills, in general.
If you fail to see something so obvious like this, then I don't know what to tell you. You just don't get it, and you will never get it.

There are tons of other designers that I don't resonate with, and have zero interest in their work. I don't go wasting my time even thinking about them, let alone going to a thread dedicated to their work to b*tch and moan about them. You had no interest in having a discussion in good faith from the very beginning. All you care about is stroking your own ego, and finding others to create an echo chamber where you can all circlejerk together with why you don't like Hedi. At the end of the day, you're just a dilettante, and know little about what you're even criticizing. You're lucky I'm having fun providing receipts.

Dear...do you really think Céline Vipiana made something original with her tweed jackets and handbags?
That´s so naïve of you to think. HINT: Chanel and Hermès were brands created BEFORE Celine was.

About the Chanel jackets for men...if you care to review vintage Chanel collections, you´ll notice there are tons of different versions of the classic tweed jacket (including those worn by the guys from your pics). HINT: check out Chanel collections from second half of the 90s, to first half of the 00s...you´ll be surprised!

For you criticism to a designer must not be made. You are only here to say beautiful things about Hedi´s work...but you can´t stand other people opinions about him.
You say you don´t waste your time writting about designers you don´t like...but you seem to enjoy wasting it being rude with everyone who does not share the same positive opinion about Hedi, like you do. Talk about ego feeding!
HINT: I care about Hedi Slimane (Dior Homme). That´s why I give my opinion about his decay as a designer.

Oh, and keep your receipt please! This dilettante here doesn´t need it...as I told you, I am not going to buy you arguments about Celine.

 

[volft]

For you criticism to a designer must not be made. You are only here to say beautiful things about Hedi´s work...but you can´t stand other people opinions about him.

Imagine going to a thread just to hate on a designer's work that I'm not even familiar with, I could never. I thought I made it clear that I'm fine with fair criticism, I don't see much of that present in many members here have contributed to this thread. It all comes off as feeling like spurned lovers support group.

You say you don´t waste your time writting about designers you don´t like...but you seem to enjoy wasting it being rude with everyone who does not share the same positive opinion about Hedi, like you do. Talk about ego feeding!

I'm rude only to those who are rude to me. If you're passive aggressive towards me, then why do you deserve to be treated kindly by me? The kicker is that not only are you passive aggressive, you provide nothing meaningful to the discussion. Talk about wasting this site's bandwidth!

HINT: I care about Hedi Slimane (Dior Homme). That´s why I give my opinion about his decay as a designer.

HINT: Dior Homme was a different era, and it is over. Designers move on.

Oh, and keep your receipt please! This dilettante here doesn´t need it...as I told you, I am not going to buy you arguments about Celine.

You're essentially exposing that your opinions don't have much credibility behind them. I enjoy seeing you just digging yourself deeper into your own grave.