Celine F/W 2022.23 Paris

[jeanclaude]

ou're essentially exposing that your opinions don't have much credibility behind them. I enjoy seeing you just digging yourself deeper into your own grave.

Look for the definition of "irony" on Google. It seems you don´t understand it yet.

Darling, enjoy the smoke you are so happily buying. Just try not to get suffocated by it, so maybe you can wake up some day and face the reality of it all...

 

[susseinmcswanny]

This thread is something else lol

 

[george5]

this collection is as inventive as those 4 members comparing Hedi's work to Zara... almost a whole decade and still the same old and tired drag ?

 

[helmutnotdead]

Sadly he didn’t join us in his debut collection at Céline. He wouldn’t find any reasonable excuse at that time to protect Hedi lol

 

[jeanclaude]

source google.com

 

[Cocteau Stone]

This thread is giving me flashbacks to the Hedi twitter rant...

I will say, Celine was never exactly about being original and that is even shown through Philo's time. How many times were pieces from her collections in the outfit lookalikes thread? Renditions of Beene, Vionnet, 80s Yamamoto and Kawakubo, Lang, Halston and so many others fed into her zeitgeist in a way that is similar to Slimane. Just contemporary re-editions and re-interpretations of past designs (and very, VERY good styling and PR).

I don't care for Slimane, and I enjoyed some of Philo's work but I did get bored of it, but Celine never really had particular codes, it just fed from others. Like what a lot of bag designers do; go to a flea market and grab a couple of old leather bags and figure out the pieces they like best from them.

That being said, I'm not in favour of Slimane in this discussion. I frankly find his approach very nouveau riche and clearly not for me, but as a fashion observer and consumer this doesn't mean I can't comment on it. It may also be influenced by the fact that I find the tweed cardigan jacket to be a very passé symbol of expensive classicism.

 

[volft]

this collection is as inventive as those 4 members comparing Hedi's work to Zara... almost a whole decade and still the same old and tired drag ?

Even after so many years of doing the "same old and tired drag" people, including you, can't help but invest their own time to see what Hedi is doing. There are only 24 hours in a day, yet you choose to spend precious time that you will never get back on Hedi.

Sadly he didn’t join us in his debut collection at Céline. He wouldn’t find any reasonable excuse at that time to protect Hedi lol

Lol, I must feel like a thorn in your side now that any baseless criticism you try to lob can easily be challenged by someone now.

That being said, I'm not in favour of Slimane in this discussion. I frankly find his approach very nouveau riche and clearly not for me, but as a fashion observer and consumer this doesn't mean I can't comment on it. It may also be influenced by the fact that I find the tweed cardigan jacket to be a very passé symbol of expensive classicism.

There's nothing wrong with fair criticism. It is obvious when someone crosses over to unfair criticism, and everyone knows it. The loudest members here set the tone and cultivate an environment that stifles discussion. They have no interest in discussion with an open mind.

I feel like everything Hedi does can be argued as passé by some, despite there being a lot of people who resonate with it. Hedi is way too ambitious to want to create something niche that would only appeal to a small audience, so he focuses on what will resonate with the zeitgeist. This has been Hedi's modus operandi since ss13, and he is not going to be changing. The closest Hedi has appeared to be spearheading a cultural shift was with how he introduced more formalism in the earlier Celine collections. It even inspired Virgil to want to prophetize that streetwear was dead at that time.

However, it doesn't seem like Hedi's earlier more formal collections were able to resonate with the consumers the same way his post-fw20 less formal collections have.
Virgil even had to even retract his earlier prophesy.
View attachment 1204129

I think Hedi's shift in gears was exactly what was necessary for his goal of reaching 2-3 billion euros within 5 years.

 

[volft]

Virgil even had to even retract his earlier prophesy.


I think Hedi's shift in gears was exactly what was necessary for his goal of reaching 2-3 billion euros within 5 years.

 

[Uemarasan]

Brings me immense pleasure to see you seethe at the fact that Hedi's Celine is popular and successful. You want to see it fail so bad because it doesn't correspond to your out of touch view on what fashion "should" be. As if your opinion is the only right opinion, and anything else is wrong. How narrow minded of you.


While you're at it, you can use the "it looks like Zara" argument as well. Your criticism just exposes that you're not from the group of consumers who regularly buys retail luxury fashion. Generally speaking, the consumer at Celine is mutually exclusive with the consumer at whatever brand you want to misalign Celine with. You just don't understand Hedi's philosophy because you will only ever have a superficial understanding of Hedi's work.

Maybe before you buy some Celine by Hedi Slimane you should buy a dictionary first and look up the word “seethe” because your misuse of the word in this context is appalling.

Nothing wrong with looking like Zara. They have nice stuff. You’re the one creating these artificial boundaries.

Rhetorical strategy of those with poor internal logical systems: relying on ad hominem attacks instead of addressing the criticisms. Please go get an education in logic first before creaming yourself over silly clothing. Maybe get better values in life while you’re at it. There’s some nice ad hominem for you.

The “you just don’t understand it therefore your criticism is invalid” fallacy has been used since your grandmother was in diapers. It never worked then, and it doesn’t work now. Maybe only for the mentally impaired.

 

[Salvatore]

I have to give it to you for going hard for Hedi, volft. That’s some passion there. Sewing you posting exclusively in Céline or Hedi threads makes me think you work for them. No offense meant, of course.

 

[toffie]

Since we were at one point talking about Amiri, I've been receiving these sponsored posts on Instagram for this brand called "Flanneur Homme" and I must admit it's the most shameless rip off I've ever seen lol.

Their Instagram page looks exactly like Celine's, from the font to the photography (and of course the clothing, albeit it looks cheap).






The most hilarious is probably the store design, which is the cherry on top. And don't get me started on the "Heroin Chic".



Naturally the e-store design is also the same. You gotta give credit for their cohesiveness!



Now the question is, how have they managed to get 100k followers? I can only hope they bought a large share of those.

 

[toffie]

I have to give it to you for going hard for Hedi, volft. That’s some passion there. Sewing you posting exclusively in Céline or Hedi threads makes me think you work for them. No offense meant, of course.

They're the definition of a "brand advocate" any marketeer is striving for. I don't think Celine needs to employ HQ people to promote the brand online knowing there's a whole Hedi stans community out there doing the job for them. Isn't it actually surprising there aren't more on here?

 

[Uemarasan]

There's nothing wrong with fair criticism. It is obvious when someone crosses over to unfair criticism, and everyone knows it. The loudest members here set the tone and cultivate an environment that stifles discussion. They have no interest in discussion with an open mind.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha.

Let me introduce you to this wonderful object, one of the greatest inventions in the history of mankind, a wonder of civilization: the mirror.

Pray tell what is fair or unfair criticism?

Strong negative criticism of the collection in question is valid. You’re the one here relying on cheap ad hominem attacks.

 

[Salvatore]

They're the definition of a "brand advocate" any marketeer is striving for. I don't think Celine needs to employ HQ people to promote the brand online knowing there's a whole Hedi stans community out there doing the job for them. Isn't it actually surprising there aren't more on here?

I’ve been on this forum for nearly 20 years (my god … ) and I’ve never seen anything like it. You must be right.

 

[volft]

Maybe get better values in life while you’re at it. There’s some nice ad hominem for you.

Despite trying to position yourself on a moral high horse, I'm glad that I was able to drag you to the dirt with me. My words have really left an indelible mark on you, huh. You're so easily manipulated it is both tragic and hilarious.

The “you just don’t understand it therefore your criticism is invalid” fallacy has been used since your grandmother was in diapers. It never worked then, and it doesn’t work now. Maybe only for the mentally impaired.

Your criticism is no different than someone who doesn't like, or know much about, wine, yet think they can form an informed critique on wine. Maybe read what Hedi has delineated about his approach before thinking you have anything meaningful to say.

Pray tell what is fair or unfair criticism?

These are examples of unfair criticism. It comes from a place of extreme narrow-mindedness and arrogance thinking that their opinion is the only correct opinion. Another common theme is that they often bring nothing to substantiate their claims, and think their words are enough.

• "Carol Christian Poell literally designs for clowns."
• "Carol Christian Poell is a hack that literally recycles the same designs in different colourways."
• "Carol has lost all of the creativity that made him great. The new colour way is his only way of showing that he's still 'creative'."
• "Carol releasing the same things over and over again is just him trying to cash out and milk as much money before his brand falls apart at the seams."
• "Carol will never amount to anymore than what he has done, he's is washed up and has nothing more to say."
• "Anyone liking Carol Christian Poell is only doing so because they're tasteless."
• "Anyone wearing Carol Christian Poell's work looks like they're literally cosplaying."
• "No way Carol's brand is doing well right now. They're not releasing their numbers for a reason."
• "Carol's work is literally garbage."
• "Anyone who is a strong vocal supporter of Carol's work must be working for them."
• "That person who is defending Carol must be Carol in-disguise."
• "Because you're against us trashing Carol's work unfairly, you must like everything that Carol has done."

 

[Salvatore]

Carol right now :

google.com

This thread is so fun and I love the passionate discussion.

 

[Uemarasan]

Despite trying to position yourself on a moral high horse, I'm glad that I was able to drag you to the dirt with me. My words have really left an indelible mark on you, huh. You're so easily manipulated it is both tragic and hilarious.


Your criticism is no different than someone who doesn't like, or know much about, wine, yet think they can form an informed critique on wine. Maybe read what Hedi has delineated about his approach before thinking you have anything meaningful to say.


These are examples of unfair criticism. It comes from a place of extreme narrow-mindedness and arrogance thinking that their opinion is the only correct opinion. Another common theme is that they often bring nothing to substantiate their claims, and think their words are enough.

• "Carol Christian Poell literally designs for clowns."
• "Carol Christian Poell is a hack that literally recycles the same designs in different colourways."
• "Carol has lost all of the creativity that made him great. The new colour way is his only way of showing that he's still 'creative'."
• "Carol releasing the same things over and over again is just him trying to cash out and milk as much money before his brand falls apart at the seams."
• "Carol will never amount to anymore than what he has done, he's is washed up and has nothing more to say."
• "Anyone liking Carol Christian Poell is only doing so because they're tasteless."
• "Anyone wearing Carol Christian Poell's work looks like they're literally cosplaying."
• "No way Carol's brand is doing well right now. They're not releasing their numbers for a reason."
• "Carol's work is literally garbage."
• "Anyone who is a strong vocal supporter of Carol's work must be working for them."
• "That person who is defending Carol must be Carol in-disguise."
• "Because you're against us trashing Carol's work unfairly, you must like everything that Carol has done."

It’s an intellectual high horse, not a moral one, Mr. Cliche of the Week. Nothing moral about a tweed jacket. But I’m all for a dirty fight. Never said I was above it. Love it like a pig in a sty.

We don’t need to know the intent of the creator to form criticisms of the creation.

Most of those are valid criticisms, except for the last ones. They’re also obviously jokes. “Hedi Slimane’s work is garbage” is perfectly valid. No one here claimed that his or her opinion was the correct one. Well, except for you.

 

[Phuel]

You know, it frustrates me a tad why Hedi would prefer to reference the classic Chanel tweed jacket just too close to its inspiration, rather than this superior cadet version he offered for Dior Homme, of which he could have really made it all his own. Not to mention how well it would do to reintroduce such an iconic design to the Celine line— for both women and men:

vogue.com

 

[volft]

You know, it frustrates me a tad why Hedi would prefer to reference the classic Chanel tweed jacket just too close to its inspiration, rather than this superior cadet version he offered for Dior Homme, of which he could have really made it all his own. Not to mention how well it would do to reintroduce such an iconic design to the Celine line— for both women and men:

vogue.com

My interpretation for why Hedi isn't really exerting his own designs onto Celine, as much as people might expect from him, is because he chooses to honour and bring back the original founder's vision in his reform projects. He did that at Saint Laurent, and now he's doing it again at Celine. Those chasseur jackets are based on the founder's design. I think because there was traditionally no menswear at Celine, Hedi is actually able to exert more of his own voice in that line.

I was surprised to see how the 16 was a mashup of Céline Vipiana's own designs. For a lot of pieces, as a creative director, Hedi isn't so much "innovating", he is really rather spotlighting, with some modifications, what is in Céline Vipiana's vision for her brand originally. I feel like how different creative directors approach their role is worth discussing.

Even the Cuir Triomphe line is something Céline Vipiana originally designed.

Hedi's updated versions:

 

[volft]

Hedi's updated versions: