Celine F/W 2022.23 Paris

If you actually read my posts, then you'll see how measured I am in actually praising Hedi's work. The only thing that might appear fanatical is how I debunk a lot of unwarranted, and incorrect, things people bring up when trying to paint Hedi in a negative light. There's nothing that bothers me as much as lies people use to justify why they dislike Hedi with great passion. There's nothing wrong with disliking Hedi, just don't lie or make up stuff without evidence to back up your claims. If you have a problem with how I systematically debunk these falsities with evidence, then we will never see eye to eye. If by "fun fashion forum" you mean an environment to dog pile on Hedi, then I can understand what you mean. Sorry for stopping all the "fun" in your safe space.

The biggest fear to any designer is to be irrelevant, so I am impressed in Hedi's ability to be so polarizing for so long.

Some of your posts are too long for me to read and I have no patience for those. I have no patience for long posts in general. As for measured praise, I’m not sure as the overall tone of what I quickly read through is that of someone that has devoted their life to Hedi and his life. Again, your prerogative. If you actually read the recent posts from members, it’s not really about Hedi anymore. It’s about seeing someone who is stanning so hard and seemingly refusing to see the other side. It’s like those stan wars when some decides to pull out record sales, grammy nominations, and whatever else they can find to defend their artist against another … on Twitter. It’s not that deep. The blindness is showing in sentences like this :
I can't say the same for people who actually do not like Hedi, yet are obsessed with talking about him. Nothing kills a thing more rapidly than the impenetrable wall of indifference, but people here seem to be attracted to him like a moth to a flame. Hedi just has that magnetic pull, I guess.

Again, no one really has been talking about Céline FW 2022 or Hedi and his work in general for the last few pages like you think or perceive. The focus has shifted more to the arguing/defense style and tone. Is he polarizing here ? Yes ! Are people stalking him to trash him ? No !

Once more, it is not that deep !
 
We've got nine pages of posts about a collection which could have been presented as a lookbook... I mean, the style is there, even if it feels like a cosplay of Parisian style (perhaps that's why it's so popular), but it's pointless to throw a massive budget on a show that has literally nothing interesting to present. The clothes may look extraordinary in shops yet they don't work as runway pieces at all. Even though a trench coat styled with mom jeans and a black turtleneck looks nice, it also makes zero impact on anyone. It doesn't even work as a medium of conveying the vibe anymore because let's face it, Hedi has excluded himself from the conversation by leaving fashion weeks. Therefore, not only does it feel basic, but also late to the party.
 
I have no patience for long posts in general. As for measured praise, I’m not sure as the overall tone of what I quickly read through is that of someone that has devoted their life to Hedi and his life.
If by devoted to his life, you mean someone who has read a couple of interviews, then sure. Based on your short attention span, I doubt you've read any.

It’s like those stan wars when some decides to pull out record sales, grammy nominations, and whatever else they can find to defend their artist against another … on Twitter.
The opposite of stans are called "antis". It is telling how many antis got triggered, and continue to be triggered here. If anyone claims that Hedi has failed at Celine, with no evidence, they better expect to have what they say refuted and slapped on the face with sales, and evidence of other brands copying Hedi's work at Celine. The fact you keep on replying exposes how much this bothers you. It is apparently deeper than what you claim it to be.
 
I mean, the style is there, even if it feels like a cosplay of Parisian style (perhaps that's why it's so popular)
I have to agree with you that this is all cosplay at the end of the day, and that everyone is essentially cosplaying. Those who get called out, are those who don't pull it off. Which is what leads to the next part of why Hedi's style can often look so pedestrian. It is obviously on purpose, because it helps with making it easier to look "real" and "believable" instead of a literal "fashion" costume. For example, all actors are cosplaying and wearing a literal costume, but they almost always feel real, rather than strangely out of place.

The clothes may look extraordinary in shops yet they don't work as runway pieces at all.
I empathize with this. For the longest time, there was a single understanding of what runway presentations should look like. Hedi came in and disrupted it. He didn't want things to look too conceptual or fantastical. He wants them to look as if they're protagonists in a movie. The clothing is significantly low key compared to other brands. It is ready-to-wear at the end of the day after all.

It doesn't even work as a medium of conveying the vibe anymore because let's face it, Hedi has excluded himself from the conversation by leaving fashion weeks. Therefore, not only does it feel basic, but also late to the party.
I don't think it is a big deal that Hedi chooses to present his collections "out of sync" with the rest of the other brands. I might even consider it a smarter strategy that takes advantage of the film format. By presenting his collection apart from the rest, there is less chance of it getting lost in the mix. I'm also glad Hedi is continuing the film format since it allows him greater flexibility in showcasing different settings, certain items, and highlighting items that wouldn't be possible in a traditional runway show. One major advantage is actually having the brand's ambassador be a part of the show. I don't think it would make sense for Lisa to be part of a normal runway show since she is significantly shorter than the rest of the models. It would look jarring seeing her juxtaposed with the regular models, but in film format there are tricks and strategies to incorporate her seamlessly into the presentation. The other brands with Blackpink ambassadors really should be taking notes because they're missing out on a lot by not having them be a model.

In the age of the internet, fashion is a machine that operates 24/7. The fact we're conversing about it now speaks volumes to that. There is no such thing as "late". It is always on.

I don't disagree that it is "basic", but that has been Hedi's style for years because it is what resonates with the mainstream luxury consumers. Fashion is for making money at the end of the day, and Hedi is giving the people what they want. I would blame the people more than I would blame Hedi for the basic pieces that are sort of on trend, but not too trendy. Expecting anything different from Hedi is silly at this point. What Hedi does so well is to make these basic pieces attractive enough for people to want to buy it retail. This is why I respect Hedi a lot as a creative director who can just pull people into his vision.

There's nothing wrong with having your opinion, but when enough people hold a contradictory opinion, I think it is worth acknowledging that you just don't get it. For example, I'm not a fan of Le Labo's fragrances, but I'm not egotistical enough to think the vast majority of people who like it are wrong, nor do I go online to find an echo chamber support group where we can trash on Le Labo together. I just recognize that I don't get it, or resonate with it the way so many other people do. I don't lose sleep over it either. There's enough space for different aesthetics to coexist.
 
We've got nine pages of posts about a collection which could have been presented as a lookbook... I mean, the style is there, even if it feels like a cosplay of Parisian style (perhaps that's why it's so popular), but it's pointless to throw a massive budget on a show that has literally nothing interesting to present. The clothes may look extraordinary in shops yet they don't work as runway pieces at all. Even though a trench coat styled with mom jeans and a black turtleneck looks nice, it also makes zero impact on anyone. It doesn't even work as a medium of conveying the vibe anymore because let's face it, Hedi has excluded himself from the conversation by leaving fashion weeks. Therefore, not only does it feel basic, but also late to the party.


I see where you are coming from regarding the set, but that is something that I look forward to with each Celine collection. In my personal opinion, Hedi’s fashion is elevated by the scenery in which he chooses as his backdrop. Maybe that is a way to artificially inflate the design, but I do find it enticing. For his Fall 2021 menswear collection shot at the Château de Chambord, I felt as if the location added to the vision of the season perfectly. The majestic, daunting castle and surrounding area contributed to a feeling of power and strength, even if all those layered clothes did not convey such magnificence. The Baie Des Angels Spring 2022 collection took us to a place of unimaginable beauty and perfection and while I miss his flashy runway presentations, I find his use of landscape and setting fitting for a brand that is positioned as a luxury house attempting to sell a dream. I really detest look books personally and find it hard to resonate with a collection that is shown in such a flat manner.

Is Hedi’s presentations as remarkable as McQueen’s abstract showcases? Or as dreamlike and atypical as Galliano’s? Certainly not, but they do add a context to each collection that would be greatly missed if the ensemble was subject to be shown only via photographs on a page.
 
If by devoted to his life, you mean someone who has read a couple of interviews, then sure. Based on your short attention span, I doubt you've read any.


The opposite of stans are called "antis". It is telling how many antis got triggered, and continue to be triggered here. If anyone claims that Hedi has failed at Celine, with no evidence, they better expect to have what they say refuted and slapped on the face with sales, and evidence of other brands copying Hedi's work at Celine. The fact you keep on replying exposes how much this bothers you. It is apparently deeper than what you claim it to be.

You’ve got a little acidity to your tone, don’t you ? You seem so riled up and I’m over here enjoying the sun, lol. Try it !

Anyway, I definitely have not read any Hedi interviews because I am not interested in that. That’s neither good nor bad. I haven’t said one thing really bad about Hedi or his collections. You can check that since you enjoy being Sherlock Holmes. You’re absolutely right about my attention span not being long enough to read about something that does not interest me. I buy stuff and keep it moving. What I do have an attention span for, however, is keeping things and people in check …

Again, you prove my point about being so blind by people saying the problem is with how you are approaching the topic and now other members, NOT Hedi. You think people are attacking Hedi and they are not. You are so blind to see that. The fact I keep replying has not one iota of a thing to do with Hedi or evidence or whatever else you’re bringing as I have just said. Again, If you would read, you’d see that. It’s about you flying onto this forum and into this thread like a Céline-by-Hedi-clad bat out of hell, defending a designer like your life depended on it and being a little acidic to other members. Posts have already been deleted and we’ve already been warned by a moderator to keep it passionate, yet cordial. Otherwise, I have a feeling this thread is going to get locked soon so ….

Aww man, look at me over here writing a long post I’ll never read myself. :rofl:
 
I see where you are coming from regarding the set, but that is something that I look forward to with each Celine collection.
I'm actually more concerned with the aesthetic of Celine as a complete project than the locations, even if I find building a new pavilion for an online show completely pointless. Hedi has been trying to make Celine quintessentially Parisian and that's why to me it feels like a cosplay—it's just not authentic at all yet feels extremely pedestrian and sterile. It's almost like wearing a mariniere and a beret while holding a baguette under the Eiffel Tower. Such a weird mix, isn't it? To go even further, it's not even a play with stereotypes because Hedi is super serious about literally everything in his universe. Perhaps that's the reason and Celine is just too overthought and controlled.

Is Hedi’s presentations as remarkable as McQueen’s abstract showcases? Or as dreamlike and atypical as Galliano’s? Certainly not, but they do add a context to each collection that would be greatly missed if the ensemble was subject to be shown only via photographs on a page.
Again, I think it's more about the pieces not making a visual impact as a runway show. I'd compare it to Saint Laurent's pre-fall 2020 as obviously, it had been designed in a similar vibe, yet shooting that collection on the streets made it way more desirable and believable. To me, it somehow highlights the fact that despite Celine being a total project, it still feels empty.
 
I'm actually more concerned with the aesthetic of Celine as a complete project than the locations, even if I find building a new pavilion for an online show completely pointless. Hedi has been trying to make Celine quintessentially Parisian and that's why to me it feels like a cosplay—it's just not authentic at all yet feels extremely pedestrian and sterile. It's almost like wearing a mariniere and a beret while holding a baguette under the Eiffel Tower. Such a weird mix, isn't it? To go even further, it's not even a play with stereotypes because Hedi is super serious about literally everything in his universe. Perhaps that's the reason and Celine is just too overthought and controlled.


Again, I think it's more about the pieces not making a visual impact as a runway show. I'd compare it to Saint Laurent's pre-fall 2020 as obviously, it had been designed in a similar vibe, yet shooting that collection on the streets made it way more desirable and believable. To me, it somehow highlights the fact that despite Celine being a total project, it still feels empty.


Okay, I respect your take. I’m not sure his resulting work is that literal, such as the example you gave above with the Eiffel, but I can see what you mean regarding its controlled appearance and nature.
 
Hedi has been trying to make Celine quintessentially Parisian and that's why to me it feels like a cosplay—it's just not authentic at all yet feels extremely pedestrian and sterile. It's almost like wearing a mariniere and a beret while holding a baguette under the Eiffel Tower. Such a weird mix, isn't it? To go even further, it's not even a play with stereotypes because Hedi is super serious about literally everything in his universe. Perhaps that's the reason and Celine is just too overthought and controlled.
This is something that has happened since at Saint Laurent. If you boil it down to how you're doing it with Celine, it is people cosplaying as super serious LA rockstars. Nothing about Hedi's recreations of pieces are "authentic" when you really think about it. It will never beat the "authenticity" of thrifted pieces from the past. This is why he stresses casting people who he believes exudes an authentic feeling. It is to imbue his inauthentic pieces with authenticity from the wearer. Personally, I'm not interested in "authentic" thrifted pieces because I truly find that banal and truly pedestrian. What I like about Hedi's approach is that he filters and pasteurizes reality, elevating it. Hedi calls it a trompe l'ceil.

For example, instead of a Stan Smith, I rather wear Hedi's SL01:
Stan_Smith_Shoes_White_Q47225_01_standard.jpg

Source: Adidas.com

Saint-Laurent-White-SL01-Low-Top-Sneakers-545.jpg

Source:YSL.com

The SL01 is just so much sexier, sleeker, and perfect complement for Hedi's skinny silhouette. This same reasoning is why I would prefer one of Hedi's peacoats than an army surplus model in thrift stores. Hedi's versions elevate what is readily available, through better design, proportion, and materials, and makes it palatable for me. Hedi has continued this philosophy at Celine.

The street was somehow informing the fashion, and I transposed this effortless wardrobe, within the rules of couture, the savoir-faire of the Parisian ateliers. The clothes were a “trompe l’oeil” of iconic street pieces, now impeccably made. You needed to be up close to understand most of it was embroidered by hand, or extremely luxurious, but without the gloss, the perception of new. Think about Georges Brummel, and effortlessness, or the Duke of Wellington, and the relation to the new. The necessity of the quality or sophistication of the execution was everything to those iconic street items.

Criticizing Hedi for this is just beating a dead horse at this point. It is a proven formula that resonates with luxury consumers. It is worth investigating why Hedi's formula resonates so well with luxury consumers.
 
Pardon my gold fish memory but didn’t we start with Hedi is designing one of a kind and nothing is really comparable to his attention to details which makes his Celine so much better than ‘blah’ brand? How did we get to Parisian cosplay?
Anyway I do enjoy his version of Celine not so much of the branded merchandise. Subject to my location, Celine is one of the better choice to have this Parisian style if one cannot tolerate the quality of Zara.
 
Idk if this thread is acceptable for this but babes I just bought a big thing of Bois Dormant because they give you a sample so you can test before opening, and at first I didn't like but after it dried... I think I'm gonna keep the whole bottle omg... wen I tell u if I smelled this on someone...
 
Idk if this thread is acceptable for this but babes I just bought a big thing of Bois Dormant because they give you a sample so you can test before opening, and at first I didn't like but after it dried... I think I'm gonna keep the whole bottle omg... wen I tell u if I smelled this on someone...

Did you eventually keep it? I must say I also considered buying it because I love the smell but I’ve heard from different sources that their perfumes do not last once on the skin. I have a sample and so far I can confirm that it seems to last only for a couple of hours. Would love to be contradicted though because I’d definitely want to buy it
 
Did you eventually keep it? I must say I also considered buying it because I love the smell but I’ve heard from different sources that their perfumes do not last once on the skin. I have a sample and so far I can confirm that it seems to last only for a couple of hours. Would love to be contradicted though because I’d definitely want to buy it
Yes I kept it! For me I would say it has a pretty normal longevity. I put it on before work the other day and could still smell it when I got home. Maybe not as loud for others to smell as the day goes on, but it was there. I'm not sure if that has to do with body chemistry or what. I would say go for it!
 
Doubt it , seems like its quite trendy thanks for all the Kpop associations. Very strange how there was no women's wear show despite there being one for men.
 
Think he’s doing it to not be buried on the pile of shows. It’s annoying. But we kind of know how it will turn out so whatever. Beautiful location, well made boring staples and a sprinkle of embroidered sparkly ‘couture’ gowns.

After the slow start Celine is doing quite well, better than what I expected. So unless he has obscene demands come renewal time which honestly there is almost none since they gave him unprecedented control or unless he’s getting a bigger job (is there a bigger job for him at this point?) I doubt he’s leaving. I could see them letting him expand the brand more if sales hold up. I don’t know if he’s itching for a proper couture atelier, but really it wouldn’t be off the table.

I can’t think of other designers who were given the same amount of control Hedi has. Outside clothing, he’s doing the stores, shooting the campaigns and doing creative direction and styling for them, scheduling the collections and complete credit for fragrances. Chanel will never give him that, if he’s after it.
 

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