Celine F/W 2022.23 Paris

[toffie]

I would assume the « Portrait of a Celine dog » is kind of a joke from the brand. And a good one at that.

Apart from that, Celine has diversified in many other ways (candles, games, etc.) so dog bags are not very surprising.

 

[toffie]

Although I would argue the dog model is quite surprising from Slimane…I would have expected hounds or teckels.

 

[tricotineacetat]

Which reminds me exactly why Slimane will never design for Chanel. A brand, arguably, composed of the ever-so delicate balance of extreme sophistication and also lowly, crass, pop-culture iconography. Slimane could never.

What you're describing about Chanel is the identity it was given through Karl Lagerfeld's re-imagination after Coco Chanel - I think we can all agree however, that with his stupendously long tenure (especially by today's standards of constantly revolving doors of creative directors), Karl Lagerfeld became in a way an inseparable part of the houses' identity, just like the houses' trademarks - The pearl necklaces, the camelia, the tweed jacket, etc.

When the time comes for a new designer to take the helms at Chanel, it will be interesting to see the house re-imagined in a very different way - The house has enough codes to riff on and it would be nice to see it maybe in a way that brings a sense of liberation, ease and modernity to the forefront.

 

[volft]

Hedi Slimane was once known for his unmistakable, singular vision. I believe creatively, he is still living of the laurels of his Dior Homme years because those were the most uncompromising years, running a niche brand, yet with amazing resources to execute his ideas fully.

I wasn't around when Dior Homme was under Hedi, so I defer to your judgement, but based on what I've gleamed from old threads, there was always a tension between those who liked Hedi for his tailoring and those who liked Hedi for his "soulless" t-shirts, denims, and sneakers. Since I'm familiar with Hedi's aesthetic, I can still see his unmistakable and singular vision in pieces. For example, his footwear signature is always elongated with a very low toe box.

I do think Hedi's ambitions make him want to aspire for more than running a niche brand. He quit Dior Homme because they wouldn't give him Dior's womenswear, after all. He has a very singular mindset on what it means to be a couturier-parfumeur. Making clothing is just not enough for Hedi. I believe he wants an empire. Aside from fragrances, in the Dancing Kid teaser, it almost felt like Hedi was planning on releasing nail polish.

With the assignments becoming ever bigger, the integrity of that vision has run ever more thin and like I said in my previous message, you have to wonder when last he has spent time in an atelier (frankly speaking, it's not that hard designing 'Hedi inspired' product when you keep in mind for how long Dior Homme and Saint Laurent continued to build on the most successful designs after his departure).

As a creative director, I don't think he personally has to make any of the pieces. He hires a team that works for him, and he oversees the process. I imagine that he sets the foundation, and instructs his team to fill in the rest. He is there is look over everything, and make sure it all conforms to his vision, and this is what I value about Hedi. I 100% believe he spends a lot of time to make sure what he's presented with is just right. Everything he releases aligns together, and it all makes sense together. It is like an equivalent of Apple products and their ecosystem.

I'm reminded of the Loic video that highlights how much time is in some of the dresses.


I don't doubt that there's a lot of work put into the pieces, but I like how low key they're about it, and try not to shove it down people's throats. The actual customers will naturally know.

I'm also reminded of this video of Olivier Rousteing:

You can see how he has a team who works for him and does all the heavy lifting. A creative director is more than a clothing designer.

Olivier proudly displays his bottle of Nightclubbing in his office:

Hedi Slimane is the definition of a designer living in an ivory tower, completely self-absorbed and devoid of any sense of humour and self-awareness. In terms of narcissism, he is giving Patrick Bateman from American Pyscho a run for his money.

I see this more as a projection of how you're actually the one in an ivory tower. The idea of an ivory tower is to emphasize how out-of-touch those individuals are with the "common folk", and their practical concerns. Hedi is actually very on the pulse, and knows what the "common folks" want, and is ready to give it to them, and the numbers prove it. He's the complete opposite of a designer living in an ivory tower.

The ones who wish for a runway presentation to feel dramatic and "fashion", even if they will never wear those pieces, even if they could afford it, are people who are actually in an ivory tower. They're disconnected with what the "common folk" actually want and buy. I don't think it is fair to diagnose Hedi as being narcissistic, and this is feeling overall very toxic to do so.

I agree that the Celine Dog images do not have humour, but I think that's perfect because nothing else Hedi presents has humour. Having humour injected to this would break to consistency of the image that Hedi is presenting for Celine. Hedi is very good in making sure everything presented is consistent, and I respect and value that a lot.

Although I would argue the dog model is quite surprising from Slimane…I would have expected hounds or teckels.

This is actually Hedi's own dog, and I suspect it is a Barbet, which is a rare French breed. I'm not an expert so this is just what I've heard others mention it looking like. Aside from being a rare breed, it has an aristocratic heritage, so it makes sense for Celine, and Hedi, if it is a Barbet.

The Barbet is not a newcomer; the first written reference to the breed is from 1387, while it is possible that the breed dates back to the seventh century. For generations, the Barbet has served as a water retriever for both royalty and commoners, and his thick, waterproof coat has earned him a reputation for braving even the coldest waters. King Henry IV was a huge fan of Barbet, and tradition has it that the king’s mistress was once chastised for bringing one to church.

 

[susseinmcswanny]

I just tested nightclubbing and reptile and I like them but omfg they triggered my fight or flight like it reminded me of being in bal harbour in miami dealing with mean judgmental people lol

update, trauma is healed. im obsessed lol

 

[volft]

There's something about Reptile having everything necessary to be the next hyped fragrance. The only thing holding it back is limited distribution. It has such an identifiable trail, projects, and lasts a good amount of time.

 

[Frederic01]

Hedi is actually very on the pulse, and knows what the "common folks" want, and is ready to give it to them, and the numbers prove it. He's the complete opposite of a designer living in an ivory tower.

He gives people what they want or what they can afford? Because there is a big difference. Offering t-shirts, candles, dog accessories, random knick-knacks, logo headbands, and sweatshirts: of course the sales figures are going to be up, because it's all cheap trash that the "common folk" (as you say) can easily afford. The fact that he is photographing a dog, pretentiously calling it "Portrait of a Dog", and trying to disguise the sheer stupidity and money-grabbing nature of the entire project, is precisely the proof that he is a creative trapped within the confines of his self-made ivory tower.

Besides, measuring and equating sales with cultural relevance is such a banal and cretinous activity and something that LVMH has clearly fooled impressionable people like you yourself into propagating. You provided one source to demonstrate the financial successes of the brand, and suddenly, you're making conclusions that Slimane has his "finger on the pulse" and is somehow culturally important? Surely, you can see how ridiculous that is?

 

[Frederic01]

I don't think it is fair to diagnose Hedi as being narcissistic, and this is feeling overall very toxic to do so.

Are you not familiar with Hedi's infamous Twitter meltdown from 2016? The most narcissistic and childish temper tantrum ever thrown by a designer in the history of mankind. Add that to the fact that he routinely places bans on journalists and editors who critique his work, such as Cathy Horyn.

If you think these actions and manifestations are signs of someone with a healthy ego and someone who has no narcissistic proclivities whatsoever, then I have no words for you.

 

[Kimihiro]

Are you not familiar with Hedi's infamous Twitter meltdown from 2016? The most narcissistic and childish temper tantrum ever thrown by a designer in the history of mankind. Add that to the fact that he routinely places bans on journalists and editors who critique his work, such as Cathy Horyn.

Can someone share the good stuff? Only the remnants are online but the juicy parts of that rant were TOTALLY erased off of the internet. The “you will know my full power” parts.

The merchandising are of course cash grabs. Let’s not confuse the mundane with something more than they are. It’s fine. He’s doing his job well. They’re not some exotic pursuits. There is nothing cerebral with a sweater with CELINE written in them. It might be subversive because Celine is a relatively unknown brand but it is what it is—a cash grab. Hedi is good with building a universe, but not everything has to be an intellectual exercise.

 

[volft]

Can someone share the good stuff? Only the remnants are online but the juicy parts of that rant were TOTALLY erased off of the internet. The “you will know my full power” parts.

I remember reading the tweets when it was still on Hedi's twitter account, and I never saw anything close to "you will know my full power". He only had 22 tweets and all 22 are archived.

 

[susseinmcswanny]

I remember reading the tweets when it was still on Hedi's twitter account, and I never saw anything close to "you will know my full power". He only had 22 tweets and all 22 are archived.

I think they might mean the tweets from his 2012 rant when he was losing his mind over Cathy horyn? I have never been able to find them ever again they gone

 

[volft]

I think they might mean the tweets from his 2012 rant when he was losing his mind over Cathy horyn? I have never been able to find them ever again they gone

I'm pretty sure they were talking about the 2016 twitter posts. But here is the one targeting Cathy Horyn:

I love how catty Hedi is, and he's giving her a taste of her own medicine. But, as a professional, he really should avoid doing this in public. As a professional, he has to smile when others slander him, and be very polite when he rebuttals. As a professional, he has no room to show actual emotions. As a professional, he has to always take the high road. Being a professional isn't easy, but that's why they are respected.

It is sad that Hedi showed Cathy how much power her words have over him. It is obvious that he was bothered by what she said, and I think that is the goal of most critics. The real power move would be to show how unbothered he is, because her opinion means nothing in our modern era. The customers have all the power now, they dictate what they want with their wallets. They no longer rely on "journalists", or Vogue, to tell them what's hot and new.

A dark fashion fairytale, this story began in 2004 when Horyn devoted a review to say that without Raf Simons' influence on fashion, Hedi Slimane would never be a success. Despite the further clarification that Simons himself would be in the same position without Helmut Lang, Slimane harboured resentment at the criticism. A public quarrel ensued that lasted for years and needless to say, Horyn was omitted from the guest list for Slimane's first show as creative director of Saint Laurent. Her retaliation was a scathing review of the photographs on the Internet, writing: "I have the impression that the collection is created by a man who has fallen out of vogue for the past few years" and made no mention of her lack of personal invitation.

For the following season Horyn was again, uninvited. And again, she wrote a review of the photographs, comparing Slimane's creations to Topshop and "based on digital images". Slimane answered via an angry open letter, stylised as 'My Own Times', in which he called Horyn, "a school bully with a touch of a stand-up comedian," saying that she will "never get a seat at Saint Laurent, but might get a 2 for 1 at Dior", and generally questioned her professionalism.

I obviously believe that Hedi would have been a success whether Helmut Lang or Raf Simons existed or not. However, I do think Hedi's success is significantly tied to how he was at YSL and Dior. If he was at some no-name brand, I don't think he would have been able to reach his success so quickly.

The truth will always prevail, and the numbers speak louder than any critic or "journalist" can.
Cathy Horyn Finally Admits Hedi Slimane Is ‘Clever’

Like a teacher forced to admit her most slacker-ish pupil’s diorama is “pretty creative,” Cathy Horyn has kind of thrown Hedi Slimane a bone in an essay for T. The critic, who’s never exactly been a fan of Slimane’s — in fact, she seems to pretty much loathe him — acknowledged that his Saint Laurentcollections have influenced the industry to the point where everyone, from Phoebe Philo to Tomas Maier, is taking a page from his playbook. Of course, that isn’t the same thing as praising him.

He’s mined the best of the house’s ‘60’s heyday, she says, and “adding a dark gloss of California rocker angst, he has kept his message stunningly simple — to the point where his clothes, while clearly high in quality, have the attitude of a trendy street label. It’s as though he refuses to strive for the standard goals of a luxury designer — to make modern, conceptual or intellectually resonating clothes. Instead, he makes straightforward commercial fashion that a woman can instantly relate to.”

“So why write about Slimane now? Here’s why: If you accept that fashion reflects the times — and I do — then you have to concede that in this respect Slimane has been impressive, even prescient.”

Hedi understands the market and gives the market what it wants.

 

[Kimihiro]

I think they might mean the tweets from his 2012 rant when he was losing his mind over Cathy horyn? I have never been able to find them ever again they gone

Yeah they’re completely gone. It’s not just the “MY OWN TIMES ONE”. Remnants were in old TFS threads.

 

[volft]

Yeah they’re completely gone. It’s not just the “MY OWN TIMES ONE”. Remnants were in old TFS threads.

Interesting as that's news to me. Once something is on the internet, it stays on the internet forever, so if it exists I'm sure someone will be able to dig it up.

 

[Uemarasan]

This thread is like one of Calvino’s invisible cities, with whole sections disappearing into thin air. Lol. All because of a failure to grasp the very basic concept of the ad hominem fallacy.

 

[MulletProof]

Can someone share the good stuff? Only the remnants are online but the juicy parts of that rant were TOTALLY erased off of the internet. The “you will know my full power” parts.

it was ‘you will know the full power of my name’ haha

PR company had them erased (likely under some legal threat) from all websites, tfs included. They were all posted in the first SL thread and were hard deleted, you can restore a soft-deleted post, not a hard deleted one but a team lead can still see the activity so you would know when hard deletion occurred in a massive manner and these posts were removed that way. No reason provided (but also don’t think the administrator who did it owed any if it came down to an actual legal issue).

A few posts in that thread quoted and/or made references to the content of these posts, which you can still see. I guess you just need to be minimally up to date with this designer’s.. stuff from back then and not just with the current post-Korean pop star catering era. That ‘statement’ with cholo font came years later.

FYI I believe Isabella Blow’s video and online comments of her calling Natalia Vodianova a gold digger were handled the same way. Makes you wonder what the legal basis of these PR company attorneys is… ‘right to be forgotten’ law distorted into ‘right to be forgiven’? lol I remember looking at the crazy amount of requests tFS was getting a couple years ago all under that law, like ‘please remove my raunchy modeling pics from 2007, they affect my life today’ hah.

 

[Kimihiro]

^^^

I only noticed it because I was lurking tfs years ago and I noticed because quotes lead to deleted posts. I thought it was the same time as the “MY OWN TIMES” one. I guess there really is power in his name!

It’s scary to think what other people hide and can hide.

 

[volft]

i didn't bother saving the pictures...so i don't have a copy of that

Mango:



Source: Mango.com

Zara:


Source: Zara.com

Aside from fast fashion, Lili Lotan is another designer that has been very inspired by Hedi's work at Celine.

Source: Vogue.com

Source: Vogue.com

 

[volft]

A few posts in that thread quoted and/or made references to the content of these posts, which you can still see. I guess you just need to be minimally up to date with this designer’s.. stuff from back then and not just with the current post-Korean pop star catering era. That ‘statement’ with cholo font came years later.

At first I was open to the possibility of this being true, but the more I read your post the more incredible it became. There are a few inconsistencies when I look at what is presented.

Inconsistency #1: "The 'statement' with ***** font came years later."

Looking at the timestamp this was posted, this was posted on October 2012. In addition to the timestamp, you see coverage of this happening on October 2012.




It is pretty clear to me that Hedi's gothic font to mock the New York Times came in October 2012. I would not say this happened years later. Unless you mean to say what you're referring to is something that was indeed years before 2012.

Inconsistency #2: Looking at the reaction of TFS members, I do not see any mention of "you will know the full power of my name" in the thread that covers this, especially not from you.


The fact that isa.b.elle. mentions "this pic" suggests she's talking about that NYT mock up. I'm surprised you would consider Hedi's "immature/narcissistic" attitude as mere rumours if you did personally see hedi say "you will know the full power of my name" years earlier. There is also no indication that your post has been edited. Granted, you can see although Hedi doesn't say those words explicitly, his actions do represent what someone who would say those words would do. He did ban her from his show, and said she's never welcome to it. Personally, I have no issues with Hedi banning Cathy. It is a privilege to attend these shows, after all. There is a shift in our culture, and the role that fashion "journalists" play has become less and less important to a brand. Reading on this situation, it seems like a lot of these "journalists" and "critics" were sour that they were forced to stand in the back of the show.

Inconsistency #3: No other outlets have reported Hedi saying those words, but they have reported the entirety of the events that transpired. If Hedi wanted to censor this, he would just scrub everything. Everything that happened is ugly, there is no reason to selectively scrub something and not scrub the entirety of what transpired.

Hedi Slimane Is Still Losing Sleep Over "Catty" Horyn and Her Right to An Opinion; Or, Why the Open Letter Is Fashion Month's Biggest Trend - theFashionSpot
Hedi Slimane Just Won't Quit: The Designer Takes To Twitter to Hate On Cathy Horyn Again
Hedi Slimane's "Silly" Cathy Horyn Twitter Rant Continues - Perez Hilton

Here are the events that transpired:
1. Cathy wrote her review.
2. Hedi posted that picture of the NYT mockup.
3. Cathy called what Hedi did as "just silly nonsense"
4. Hedi sent 2 tweets as a rebuttal.
5. Hedi deleted everything on his twitter.

These were the 2 tweets that Hedi wrote back to Cathy after she called it all silly nonsense:


To summarize, in October of 2012, Hedi sent a total of 3 tweets, and none of it mentions "you will know the full power of my name". The fact that you are so certain, and with conviction, that he did use those words is very concerning. This again speaks volumes about how it is normalized that anti-Hedi narratives can be propagated here without any need for it to be substantiated with evidence.

 

[susseinmcswanny]

I feel scared