Chanel Pre-Fall 2014 Dallas

[dsamg]

In Karl's defence, it is possible that he really did not see it as offensive as he is not American. I know next to nothing about Native Americans because I have never been to the US and know nothing about the country's history. If it wasn't for VS last year, I would have no idea that this is offensive or why.

 

[HeatherAnne]

In Karl's defence, it is possible that he really did not see it as offensive as he is not American. I know next to nothing about Native Americans because I have never been to the US and know nothing about the country's history. If it wasn't for VS last year, I would have no idea that this is offensive or why.

Trust me, he knows. Back when Cowboy/Spaghetti Western films ruled Hollywood 60s-70s this was a topic that came up frequently. Marlon Brando rejected his Academy Award because of the portrayal of Native Americans in films.

 

[rebel]

FAIL.
*don't quote pictures*
freaking-awesome-unicorns.tumblr

Is that a "reverse racism" argument I am sensing here? Sorry, I don't remember any white cowboys being oppressed/exterminated in the past.
You can't oppress the oppressor, mi hijo.

Sorry, I don't remember - black greek god (Kanye West) or black queen (Beyonce)....I don't think this is offended!

MyNameIs, I couldn't agree more! Maybe I don't get it as I am not American myself, but I am sitting here and reading all these complaints about how it is so disrespectful with my eyes wide opened. I do not get it. I mean, Russian theme has been an inspiration for creating clothes before. Some things that are associated with darker times in the history of my country, might be used while designing pieces, but it does not offend me in any way AT ALL. I mean, it's fashion, why take it so seriously? It's art, it's experimentation, it's the work of one's imagination. It's not like someone says this nation is not wrothy, stupid or this race is this or that, it's more of a tribute in my opinion. Even if someone says smth negative about my culture or nation that I represent, I won't be offended, because I know who I am, who we are, I know the weaknesses and I know our strengths. How can any of these things offend you, when you are confident and proud of who you are? Oh and this cross comparison is a very good one!

As for the collection, I haven't actually had a chance to process it all, but for now I can say I really like the presentation, it's fun how the girls are riding these bulls, so cool! I can't say I would wear all these pieces, but there are a few jackets and skirts that I like. I actually find it amazing how Karl manages to come up with all these collections after so many years and stil deliver smth interesting, whether we like it or not. He has my respect, even though there are things that I would never put on myself.

+1

 

[SugarMe]

The fact of the matter is that the people who wear and designers who showcase this headdress are willfully ignoring the wishes of Native American people who do not want their sacred symbols to be featured as a costume or trend when they are used inappropriately. How many headdress/Native American controversies have we seen in the past few years? Victoria's Secret. No Doubt. Lana Del Rey. Paul Frank. Charlotte Casiraghi. H&M. The ongoing sports mascot controversy. Every time Halloween rolls around. Khloe Kardashian. Kesha. Urban Outfitters. The list goes on.

Karl Lagerfeld is not stupid, but apparently he is unwilling to learn from these incidents. In what many people here believe is him exercising his rights as an artist, all I see is a very clear sign of disrespect by ignoring the rights of those who are offended, even if you yourself do not find the act offensive.

 

[TREVOFASHIONISTO]

Sorry, I don't remember - black greek god (Kanye West) or black queen (Beyonce)....I don't think this is offended!

you're taking metaphors from songs that are being used to empower in a message and comparing it to Native Americans???

 

[masquerade]

In Karl's defence, it is possible that he really did not see it as offensive as he is not American. I know next to nothing about Native Americans because I have never been to the US and know nothing about the country's history. If it wasn't for VS last year, I would have no idea that this is offensive or why.

That is not a valid argument at all. A very high profile instance happened in France these last few weeks. An auction house auctioned off sacred items from the Hopi tribe that were illegally taken from their people. The tribe sued to stop it, and the French government (who seems to care so much about the preservation of French culture), dismissed and ignored them. Once again, reinforcing that the white majority is subjugating and dismissing the concerns of a people that it has oppressed (France has a history of colonialism in the Americas). This is an issue known in Europe and ignored.

As everyone else has said, numerous Native American tribes and groups have spoken out against the appropriation of the headdress. There are blogs dedicated to just that (nativeappropriations and this-is-not-native for example). There are books written on this topic. You may not be personally offended (I am not native so this doesn't personally affect me either), but you can be culturally sensitive and understand that this goes against the wishes of those whose culture is being taken and trivialized. They have a right to be offended and hurt.

 

[eternitygoddess]

It's very interesting from a cultural and sociological standpoint that all the vehement reactions against this collection are coming from Americans (and Canadians), whilst everyone else is ambivalent about the cultural appropriation.

 

[before]

And for your knowledge there were plenty of Soviet symbols (the red star for example, all the pins on the bags were inspired by the Soviet pins etc) used in that particular collection. Being a citizen of a former Soviet occupied country I possibly could find it insulting or stuff. But I don't. Past is past and people shouldn't take everything so seriously.

The Soviet symbols are political symbols which signify a multitude of things including oppression but have ex-Soviet states made it clear that they would not like them to used in such ways? Do the hold any religious rank? Were they always treated as sacred? Did the Soviet governments themselves not use them for propaganda and every day life?

 

[kokobombon]

It's very interesting from a cultural and sociological standpoint that all the vehement reactions against this collection are coming from Americans (and Canadians), whilst everyone else is ambivalent about the cultural appropriation.

It makes sense that it´s that way, doesn´t it? it´s their cultural and sociopolitical background. Same with black culture appropriation and the black community.

I don´t know if this is the right place to ask but anyone has any info as how the media is handling this?

 

[Melancholybaby]

It's very interesting from a cultural and sociological standpoint that all the vehement reactions against this collection are coming from Americans (and Canadians), whilst everyone else is ambivalent about the cultural appropriation.

I'm neither American nor Canadian and I find it offensive. The "I'm not American therefore I don't know anything about it" argument is ridiculous. This is 2013 and there's the internet so no excuses about willingly remaining ingorant.

 

[mistress_f]

I don´t know if this is the right place to ask but anyone has any info as how the media is handling this?

i could only find

http://fashionista.com/2013/12/chanel-shows-native-american-headdresses/

(omg at that headpiece with the feathers and the dazzling gun. now tell me that's not offensive)

and this

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/11/chanel-headdress_n_4426581.html

 

[kokobombon]

^Thanks. I couldn´t find much either. So apparently it´s no big deal when a HF house like Chanel does it.

 

[rebel]

I'm neither American nor Canadian and I find it offensive. The "I'm not American therefore I don't know anything about it" argument is ridiculous. This is 2013 and there's the internet so no excuses about willingly remaining ingorant.

but is not offensive if colection is inspired by russian,indian or turkish culture
fashion represents nothing more than inspiration of designer/life

 

[Laini]

Ahhhh got to love privilege on TFS. Is it that hard to have empathy or respect in fashion? I'm guessing so...

 

[Melancholybaby]

but is not offensive if colection is inspired by russian,indian or turkish culture
fashion represents nothing more than inspiration of designer/life

If the inspiration holds a sacred meaning and the people have clearly expressed that, then yes it is offensive too. But you have to keep in mind here that Native Americans have faced different circumstances (murder, robbed of their land, even slavery) so yes it's even more offensive.

 

[eternitygoddess]

I'm neither American nor Canadian and I find it offensive. The "I'm not American therefore I don't know anything about it" argument is ridiculous. This is 2013 and there's the internet so no excuses about willingly remaining ingorant.

The internet may allow people to be aware of issues, but it doesn't necessarily mean people will UNDERSTAND the causes/motivations/factors behind those issues. Context is important.

 

[gazebo]

I love the heavy cozy blanket looks. And the craftsmanship is exciting as always, You don't get to see this level of clothes making anywhere else, It's top notch.

 

[Deleted member 1957]

I still insisnt that designers have ripped off Masaai and West African prints, bead work and jewelry and no single soul has ever said anything about it yet some of the styles and prints used in international collections are actually considered sacred to some tribes.

 

[kokobombon]

^it´s up to you to spread the word, then
I don´t think that people wouldn´t care or sympathize but some issues are more known that others, in this case the native american culture appropriation has been talked about in the media, same with black culture... so more people not directly affected are more aware.

And in this case, we´re talking about native american culture because it´s pertinent but other cultures appropriation are also discussed eg celebs wearing bindi.

I see this collection and can´t help but feel like it´s mockery-ish, because of the set and styling, not just inspiration. Check out this accessory: the bejeweled gun and feathers, don´t they look like trivialization of the killing of people?



fashionista.com via mistress f

 

[Laini]

I still insisnt that designers have ripped off Masaai and West African prints, bead work and jewelry and no single soul has ever said anything about it yet some of the styles and prints used in international collections are actually considered sacred to some tribes.

So your justification is because one ethnic minority group hasn't voiced any discord as loudly as the others the rest should just fall in line?? EDITED - BE RESPECTFUL

Oh and.. : http://www.businessweek.com/article...ek-royalties-for-commercial-use-of-their-name