Culture, Aesthetics and Fashion Discussion

[Meg]

oh...i can't talk about jessica...i have ugg-related issues involving her...it's just too painful...

and the term GAH!!!... like nails on a challkboard to me...

*shivers*...

Okay I haven't fully finished reading the new posts but I had to post a few things first.

first of all, softie! I love the word 'gah' and often use it in real to express frustration at the world or just myself. I can't believe you don't like it. I practically invented that word

Second of all, seriously, tfs rocks the fashion world. We're clearly the best fashion forum, and have fashion people who troll here for news and ideas.

Third of all, I find it more aggravating when people don't understand depression than have misunderstanding cause depression. Often that chemical imbalance isn't caused by the outside world, the outside world merely aggravates it. Also there are plenty of other things greater than misunderstanding that contribute. Hatred and humiliation to name a few.

 

[As You Like It]

I think style can actually supersede "taste." For example Charles Frederick Worth's outlandishly sumptuous gowns in the 1880s. For another example, some of Alejandro's completely mind-blowing outfits. Mae West's outlandish stage costumes. Inimitable, over-the-top, but undeniably stylish. I know the excuse I make for myself has roots in the idea that sometimes you have to break the rules of taste to achieve a certain element of style.

I think Coco Chanel did that, herself, when she started to promote and popularize costume jewelry, which was hithertofore thought of as tacky and low-class. Vintage Chanel costume jewelry will fetch thousands now, and is highly treasured for its style! In fact a lot of things we treasure for their styles now were once considered awfully tacky. 1957 Chevy Belleaires. Red lipstick. Makeup in general. I think those who brought these styles to the forefront, who popularized them, helped to break the ice by exhibiting an element of outrageousness, as well as an ironclad conviction that dammit, they looked good!

I think that some people have a sense of style born into them, but that it is something you can learn, if you are willing to experiment and riff off of what you learn and what is handed down to you as received wisdom. Anyone can do the Chanel suit/pearls/pumps routine and look proper and acceptable for nearly every occasion, but not everyone can throw away the little a-line skirt, pair her jacket with a pair of leather rockstar pants, cornrow her hair, and use bronzer instead of eyeshadow. But that woman is out there, and people's heads turn when she enters the scene. I think the main element of style is recognising proportions, and understanding how they work, and when to break the rules. I think with enough "oomph" the right person can make damn near any look work. The "oomph" is innate, but learning how to experiment with fashion can be learned via trial and error.

I think anyone with the interest, courage, and spare time can experiemnt his or her way into a distinctive personal style. It's just easier for some than others to really do their own things.

I also submit the theory that many of the women lionized as style icons weren't acutally that interesting of dressers, they were simply pretty girls with expensive clothes. Audrey Hepburn, Grace Kelley, and Jackie Kennedy being the perennials. They'd look damn good in pretty much anything, simply because they had very good facial features. All three of them played it pretty safe style-wise, IMO, but "we" love them because they made unremarkable clothes look so good.

 

[softgrey]

Could the absolute cynicism on the part of ' thinking ' fashionistes ' that comes through so clearly in the Helmut Lang , Jil Sander , and even the Tom Ford threads , be at the root of parlous state of the fashion industry , so convincingly expounded by Soft .

Only time will tell !!!

i couldn't even read your post cause i just got too too excited..!!!!!!!
oh kit, my darling...i've missed your witty and insightful contributions... many of us have...it is wonderful to see your post...

big hug and kiss from accross the pond...

 

[softgrey]

your adittued is very rude and ignorant. You know very well many people here are form LA yet you still say things like hollywood is a cultural waste land, wich is compleately untrue.

spacemiu...you are taking this far too personally...
i don't see how anything i've said has been rude...nothing i said was directed at you..and i don't think you are part of the hollywood machine...are you?...my personal feelings about LA have nothing to do with you in particular...it is from my own personal experience...it is my opinion...

i am not the only one who has this opinion of LA and yet you are singling me out...i don't understand that...

i think johnny made a good point...if there are so many great things about LA that we don't know about...then please share them with us all so that we can see them...simply attacking me and making negative assumptions about my knowledge of the city does no one any good...and certainly does not prove me wrong...

i'm glad to know that there are people in LA who are thinking outside the box and i would love for you to show us some of the more cultural aspects of the city you seem to love so well...because i have never been able to find them...

 

[Meg]

The quote that struck me and stuck with me was, "Buddha is everywhere. To deny it, is to demean Buddha."
And for my part, I can tell you, I feel it. I feel it when I look at a jacket, and I see the silouhette, and I see how the beauty of it flowing when I walk, and I see the mind of the designer who wanted to make it that way, and I see the craftmanship in that seam. And I see it in an athlete who jumps for that ball, trying to push the laws of physics just a little bit farther, and I see it in a home mechanic who spends meditative hours fixing his car, and in a doctor who makes someone feel better, and so on and so on.

Unfortunately, fashion is not presented that way. For the most part, fashion is presented as a material fetish. Sports are presented as a pass time of the beer guzzling rednecks. Technology is presented as dehumanizing. What one has to do is see through this veil. To see Quality in everything. It may not be easy, but it's the idea.

Okay I've reread and back on topic. I actually think that is style in born or can it be created, should be a whole seperate topic. This is about culture and aesthetics, not about where style comes from.

anyway, I found this quotation of your's Faust particular interesting, especially in regards to the religion thread. You mocked those who had a belief or faith in God and yet to me, this is the exact same thing. Some see God (or in this case Buddha) in the everyday physicality of the world but I thought in the other thread that you mocked that sort of faith? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, there are plenty of crap buildings in Europe too. We have to remember that some of the beautiful statuesque buildings are there because Europe has a history. Yes, they have a different perspective, and will allow different architecture to be built, I think that there is sort of a mass cultural rebellion against mainstream but that those who join this underground rebellion join often not knowing or caring for the cause, just as long as it is indie, or underground or not mainstreams which to me is just the same thing, only on a smaller scale.

 

[softgrey]

Have you read Status Anxiety by Alain de Botton? I've been meaning to check it out...

this is the book that luxmode and kit were referring to ...status anxiety...

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200406u/int2004-06-29

it was also recommended to me by someone i hold in high regard...
i read an interview with the author and was intrigued...i don't have a subscription...so i don't have access to the article unfortunately...but it seems this book is a good one to add to the list here...

thanks to lux and kit for bringing it in...

 

[softgrey]

Okay I haven't fully finished reading the new posts but I had to post a few things first.

first of all, softie! I love the word 'gah' and often use it in real to express frustration at the world or just myself. I can't believe you don't like it. I practically invented that word .

gah is not a word...

Second of all, seriously, tfs rocks the fashion world. We're clearly the best fashion forum, and have fashion people who troll here for news and ideas.

...you said it sistah!!!....

Third of all, I find it more aggravating when people don't understand depression than have misunderstanding cause depression. Often that chemical imbalance isn't caused by the outside world, the outside world merely aggravates it. Also there are plenty of other things greater than misunderstanding that contribute. Hatred and humiliation to name a few

man...all this talk about depression is really off topic and is making me depressed...

 

[Meg]

it is colloquially accepted, so I will continue to use 'gah' to be express my frustration. The depression stuff is off topic (sorry) but it should be discussed to promote tolerance and understanding This is a heavy topic and culture is multi-faceted, it is bound to discuss many different parts.

 

[softgrey]

Also, there are plenty of crap buildings in Europe too. We have to remember that some of the beautiful statuesque buildings are there because Europe has a history. Yes, they have a different perspective, and will allow different architecture to be built, I think that there is sort of a mass cultural rebellion against mainstream but that those who join this underground rebellion join often not knowing or caring for the cause, just as long as it is indie, or underground or not mainstreams which to me is just the same thing, only on a smaller scale.

hey meg...
i'm just wondering what underground rebellion you are referring to?...i' didn't really get that part...can you clarify please?...thx...

 

[softgrey]

it is colloquially accepted, so I will continue to use 'gah' to be express my frustration.

that's fine... ...and i will continue to hate it...

The depression stuff is off topic (sorry) but it should be discussed to promote tolerance and understanding This is a heavy topic and culture is multi-faceted, it is bound to discuss many different parts.

i know...but it's seriously depressing me...i wasn't kidding...

 

[Meg]

hey meg...
i'm just wondering what underground rebellion you are referring to?...i' didn't really get that part...can you clarify please?...thx...

haha I guess we will just differ on the word 'gah'.

By 'underground rebellion' I mean the mass movement against the mainstream. I think it's underground due partially to it's size and also the fact that it's isn't mainstream. My point was, that many people join this movement and say 'i hate the mainstream' but they don't understand what the movement is about, they don't really care about it, and thus this 'underground movement' is exactly the same as mainstream, with people just doing things because they think it's the 'cool' thing to do. Does that make more sense now?

I don't think depression is anything to get depressed about softie but if it makes you feel uncomfortable maybe you should skip over those threads? I think it's actually important to discuss and I don't get why people say 'oh depression is so sad' yeah, it's not fun but neither is having diabetes and yet we don't get 'oh talking about diabetes is making me so sad'. And I think talking about depression might also reveal more about some of the mindlessness that pervades parts of our society.

 

[pointup]

Thank you to all those with kind comments for my little babble................

hmm I don't know.. I was going to add something to this conversation but I just can't think of anything.. Perhaps I'll study people at school tomorrow

 

[kit]

i couldn't even read your post cause i just got too too excited..!!!!!!!
oh kit, my darling...i've missed your witty and insightful contributions... many of us have...it is wonderful to see your post...

big hug and kiss from accross the pond...

Many many thanks for Soft's , Strawb's and Johnny's salutations

I'll endeavour to keep in touch

KIT

 

[softgrey]

^^please do darling...there is a palpable void in your absence...

 

[helena]

yes kit it would be nice to hear your views again soon.

every time I come back to this thread it seems to have morphed again.....its now about style/taste/fashion....oh and LA! Its all good. I Love conversations to grow arms & legs! so is there any consensus amoungst us all that euopeans are more stylish that americans?... that had been the starting point of the conversation. Or is the consensus that neither one nor the other can be better or worse or just different? or is it wrong to generalise about huge swathes of peoples?

 

[kit]

Hugs and kisses to you both XXX

God willing , you're gonna hear from me !!!

KIT

 

[PrinceOfCats]

Good to hear it, Kit.

 

[softgrey]

yes kit it would be nice to hear your views again soon.

every time I come back to this thread it seems to have morphed again.....its now about style/taste/fashion....oh and LA! Its all good. I Love conversations to grow arms & legs! so is there any consensus amoungst us all that euopeans are more stylish that americans?... that had been the starting point of the conversation. Or is the consensus that neither one nor the other can be better or worse or just different? or is it wrong to generalise about huge swathes of peoples?

no...it's not about LA...and i will start a new thread about personal style in the personal style section to try to keep this reined in just a bit...

let's try to stay focused so that people who want to join the discussion can do so more easily...and this way we can have more than one topic like this going...

ok...going to set up the new thread...

 

[softgrey]

done...
http://www.thefashionspot.com/forums/showthread.php?p=427584

 

[softgrey]

ok...back on topic...
in answer to helena's last post...i think the only way to have this discussion is to generalize...

but i wouldn't lump all of europe together...each country has it's own distinctive style...much like the different regions of the united states...and i'm sure this is true around the world...

i think we have to generalize according to cultural background if we are going to generalize...and then contrast and compare...

i was very interested to see some of the danish designers that hanne has posted for example...and the streetstyle pics of copenhagen were amazing to me...i had no concept of that part of the world...the only thing i think of when i think of denmark is hans christian andersen...LOL...

there seems to be a very specific and identifiable danish style...at least from what i have seen here...i would like to know more about denmark in general...they look like a pretty stylish group of folks......i wonder if they grow up with an appreciation for the arts...