Daniel Lee - Designer, Creative Director of Burberry | Page 7 | the Fashion Spot

Daniel Lee - Designer, Creative Director of Burberry

His first collection was strong and interesting. After that it went downhill, he just stayed relevant because of the memories of his debut collection at BV...but that isn´t strong enough to keep being relevant.
This kind of modus operandi has worked for Alessandro Michele at Gucci (strong first collection; and he is still at Gucci!)...but normally you need to make more strong and interesting collections to keep being in the spotlight.
 
Rumours about DL being difficult had been whirling around for a while, so this really comes as no surprise to anyone. As @Lola701 noted, it is worrying when, apart from the suits, not even the craftsman are on your side: you're just digging your grave with your own hands.

The point is trying to understand what being "difficult" means in reality: is if just being a huge drama queen (like I believe is Lee's case) or a pathological egomaniac (like Hedi); or is it rather trying to get more control over some aspects of the brand management that are usually out of the designer's grasp (as was the case with Nicolas during his last months at Balenciaga, where he was allegedly very unhappy with the merchandising team decisions); or is it being uncompromising on details and quality which suits would prefer to cut corners on, wherever possible(hello Jil, hello Stefano).

Nothing will stop me from suspecting that, deep down, lies a huge behaviour and value clash, between the creative class, mainly made of women and gay men, whose independence and decisional power have been eroded over the years to almost zero, and the managerial class, mainly made of straight men, who very, very unwillingly accept any of their choices being objected to.

Those aren’t the days of Halston anymore and I think it’s fair to say that for the past 30 years, designers, who are mostly gay men, have proven their credibility in the same space as the executives. And to be honest, there are also gay men in board of members, executives roles of those companies. The issue for me hasn’t really to do with that « power dynamic ».


Designers are very demanding but the title of creative director means as a whole « chef d’orchestre ». They create an atmosphere and a dynamic that can drive or destroy the team.
Being a diva is not that deep to be honest. They are all more or less divas because that’s what positions of power do to you, that’s what success do to you!
I worked in a studio of a fashion house! It was demanding, it was challenging, it was late hours…BUT there was a great atmosphere. Everybody was conscious of their position, of the goal and people were respected.
Sometimes, being liked or loved is enough. When people respect you, they do their jobs. When they liked you, they are willing to do the impossible for you…

It’s something we have seen in fashion particularly in the relationship between designers and seamstresses. But it also extend to the Artisans.

I saw it with my grandmother growing up. We saw it in fashion documentaries, we saw it when Alber left Lanvin. The whole house was behind him! Alber had the reputation of being tough and demanding in the work. But his personality was the most exquisite.

I liked the work of Daniel Lee but if he is a pain to work with, it’s going to be very difficult for him! In that sphere of the Pinault and all, everything is spread quickly! We will see what’s next for him.
 
Those aren’t the days of Halston anymore and I think it’s fair to say that for the past 30 years, designers, who are mostly gay men, have proven their credibility in the same space as the executives. And to be honest, there are also gay men in board of members, executives roles of those companies. The issue for me hasn’t really to do with that « power dynamic ».
I have seen a lot of designers having to parrot the lingo of executives and marketing honchos, as a sort of survival mechanism, I guess. But I haven't seen many CEO's being as respectful of the rhythms and dynamics of the creative mind. Maybe because to do so, it takes a lot of emotional intelligence that, as a whole, they lack in spades.
I agree with you and others here on one thing: we are not in the 90's anymore, designers who embark on a job like directing a major fashion house at this point know - or should know - the rules of the game, however unfair they may seem. There is little use in complaining that the suits are too demanding, once you have accepted the role. And I guess the same pressure to perform is on suits as well.
 
Those aren’t the days of Halston anymore and I think it’s fair to say that for the past 30 years, designers, who are mostly gay men, have proven their credibility in the same space as the executives. And to be honest, there are also gay men in board of members, executives roles of those companies. The issue for me hasn’t really to do with that « power dynamic ».


Designers are very demanding but the title of creative director means as a whole « chef d’orchestre ». They create an atmosphere and a dynamic that can drive or destroy the team.
Being a diva is not that deep to be honest. They are all more or less divas because that’s what positions of power do to you, that’s what success do to you!
I worked in a studio of a fashion house! It was demanding, it was challenging, it was late hours…BUT there was a great atmosphere. Everybody was conscious of their position, of the goal and people were respected.
Sometimes, being liked or loved is enough. When people respect you, they do their jobs. When they liked you, they are willing to do the impossible for you…

It’s something we have seen in fashion particularly in the relationship between designers and seamstresses. But it also extend to the Artisans.

I saw it with my grandmother growing up. We saw it in fashion documentaries, we saw it when Alber left Lanvin. The whole house was behind him! Alber had the reputation of being tough and demanding in the work. But his personality was the most exquisite.

I liked the work of Daniel Lee but if he is a pain to work with, it’s going to be very difficult for him! In that sphere of the Pinault and all, everything is spread quickly! We will see what’s next for him.

Honestly, you’re kinda the reason I stay on the fashion spot. Your contributions are so rich, so entertaining. I’d love to know more of your days working on fashunnn!
 
It's so disheartening and tiring to read rumours of Lee being "difficult" and I personally don't believe any of it. The truth is, Daniel Lee fought tirelessly for his vision and for his ideas in the face of an increasingly social-media driven commercial industry, and in the end he refused to give in and he left. It is as simple as that.

Let's face it, designers who have strong visions and who don't wish to compromise their visions for the sake of commercialism or corporate pressures, are often labelled "divas" or "megalomaniacs", and when they refuse to compromise, they leave their respective positions and keep their integrity intact. These exits then get misconstrued in the media and people start rumours, such as the below (with clear implications):

Said one source. “So many people left, it was a revolving door.”
wwd.com/

The core design team at Bottega has stayed consistent since Lee's arrival, with the addition of new designers such as Blazy. For example, Matteo Tamburini, has been there since 2017. Nina Christen, who is the Head Shoe Designer, has been there since 2019.

The fact that WWD would also report the following: [that a] “highly dependable, veteran expert in the operations and supply chain department at the Vicenza headquarters, a key reference point for the company, quit last week" is completely irrelevant. We don't know the context of why or how this happened, why insinuate that it had something to do with Lee? The design team have very little to do with the supply chain (which by the way is 200KM away from the design headquarters is in Via Privata Ercole Marelli in Milan). That part is organised and overseen by corporate. Kering has a slower pace of delivery than LVMH additionally which may have been a problem, but again, nothing to do with the designers.

The truth is, Kering most likely put pressure on Lee to start compromising and being more commercial, and clearly Lee decided to leave rather than compromise his vision, and Kering obviously had different ideas. Respect to him. This happens
all the time in the design world. Hedi Slimane left Saint Laurent because he wanted control of YSL Beauty, which he was turned down. Phoebe Philo left Celine because LVMH wanted her to start doing cosmetics/perfumes and menswear, and she said no. Raf left Dior because he was being pressured to focus more on leather goods/bags and less on RTW to generate $$$ for LVMH, which he was not happy with. Etc etc.
 
It's so disheartening and tiring to read rumours of Lee being "difficult" and I personally don't believe any of it. The truth is, Daniel Lee fought tirelessly for his vision and for his ideas in the face of an increasingly social-media driven commercial industry, and in the end he refused to give in and he left. It is as simple as that.

However, those rumours of Lee being difficult are really nothing new. It's not like Kering would even care to conduct damage control that way. Actually, the first time I'd heard those rumours was after that infamous illegal afterparty in Berlin, I think it was back in February. I wish those stories from Soho House had survived somewhere on the Internet, but it seems that everything was deleted back then. And it was that Berlin show when not only was his diva behaviour annoying, but also totally disrespectful (as it was right in the middle of a really strict lockdown) and dangerous (because he didn't want to see any masks). What's more, there was a police investigation because of that show. So yeah, I wouldn't really defend him.
 
However, those rumours of Lee being difficult are really nothing new. It's not like Kering would even care to conduct damage control that way. Actually, the first time I'd heard those rumours was after that infamous illegal afterparty in Berlin, I think it was back in February. I wish those stories from Soho House had survived somewhere on the Internet, but it seems that everything was deleted back then. And it was that Berlin show when not only was his diva behaviour annoying, but also totally disrespectful (as it was right in the middle of a really strict lockdown) and dangerous (because he didn't want to see any masks). What's more, there was a police investigation because of that show. So yeah, I wouldn't really defend him.

I agree with you that the entire Berlin / Berghrain show was a slight misstep, however the situation was complex, and being on the outside, we will never know the circumstances under which the show occurred.

Besides, the German government was fully aware of the show and approved of everything that was going on. Berghain also (notoriously) has links to the government authorities. The fact is, everybody wanted the prestige and the cultural cachet of having a Bottega Veneta show in Berlin, and the authorities allowed it to happen. The afterparty at the hotel was similarly approved. The authorities "investigated" purely due to public pressure, but nothing happened afterwards, because it was all about the $$$.

Let's be honest, this approach and bending of the rules is nothing new. There is always going to be one set of rules for celebrities and one set of rules for the rest of the population. Look at the MET Gala. On the day of the gala there was around 3000 cases in NYC, and whilst the staff were all masked, the celebrities were walking the red carpet and partying inside without masks. Ditto at Cannes Film Festival which happened one month later. And the CHANEL Cruise show/after party in the same month. Let's not forget actors, musicians, directors, etc etc, were also travelling to America even when there was an "official" travel ban for ordinary people. You can't be too moralistic and and self-righteous about these kind of issues. Let's get real; the entire entertainment industry operated last year and this year like nothing happened and were given carte blanche, permits, and even incentives, to create, film, produce, etc etc, by local governments. C'est la vie!
 
Let's be honest, this approach and bending of the rules is nothing new. There is always going to be one set of rules for celebrities and one set of rules for the rest of the population. Look at the MET Gala. On the day of the gala there was around 3000 cases in NYC, and whilst the staff were all masked, the celebrities were walking the red carpet and partying inside without masks. Ditto at Cannes Film Festival which happened one month later. And the CHANEL Cruise show/after party in the same month. Let's not forget actors, musicians, directors, etc etc, were also travelling to America even when there was an "official" travel ban for ordinary people. You can't be too moralistic and and self-righteous about these kind of issues. Let's get real; the entire entertainment industry operated last year and this year like nothing happened and were given carte blanche, permits, and even incentives, to create, film, produce, etc etc, by local governments. C'est la vie!
And this should make one furious. I'm done with shrugging my shoulders and "c'est la vie-ing." When the people moralizing about what you should care about live their life in direct contradiction to their "advice," it leaves one wondering how sincere their concern actually is. It's the same celebrities and influencers crying about climate crisis, as they fly private jets, live in enormous homes, and buy ocean front property while they talk about rising sea levels...hmm....
 
I think the difference is that there is a real archive to work off of and reference. I must admit, I don't know much about Bottega's history, pre Tomas Maier, but I don't think its archive rivals that of what Yves Saint Laurent left behind.

A bit like Celine, in a way.

Unlike Celine which was once built on and defined by Philo's vocabulary, Bottega is closer to Saint Laurent with a more prestigious name but without the archive. It was Hedi who brought Saint Laurent back again to the spotlight after Pilati's tenure, and the same can be said to Daniel Lee who successfully turned Bottega into a powerhouse setting trends, for better or for worse depends on if we like it or not. If Vaccarello managed to elevate the aesthetic set up by Hedi and even outdid Hedi to some degree, Bottega will only need the right person to continue Daniel's direction as long as the brand stays on people's radar. But the uncertainty of Bottega remains as Philo is back, and we all have high expectations here in TFS!
 
But does he deserve it?

His first runway show this past NYFW was pretty pitiful, if you ask me.

I’m not saying Daniel deserved it in the first place, either…but what I am saying is Peter isn’t all that special. Just another ex-Celine employee who can’t move on or figure out a voice of his own. But, yes, let’s hire him because he’s Asian.

My post is sarcastic:magic:. It's already embarrassing to be called Phoebe-wannabe, even more embarrassing to take over a job from another Phoebe-wannabe. I am not again Peter but just to mock Mr Pinault. And last no least, I am all for an Asian creative director for a major fashion house.
 
I am curious if this, along with Phoebe returning soon, will set off a wider « musical chairs » in the industry. I didn’t follow Bottega Veneta so I cannot say I feel a certain way about his departure, but these kinds of shifts interest me a lot.
 
I am curious if this, along with Phoebe returning soon, will set off a wider « musical chairs » in the industry. I didn’t follow Bottega Veneta so I cannot say I feel a certain way about his departure, but these kinds of shifts interest me a lot.


at this state fashion is now, I certainly wouldnt mind a musical chair change, Dior, Dior Men, Fendi, LV Mens, please take your position :blush:

I am not a huge fan of Daniel Lee after the first season, but appreciate the refreshing change he brought to BV.
 
at this state fashion is now, I certainly wouldnt mind a musical chair change, Dior, Dior Men, Fendi, LV Mens, please take your position :blush:

I am not a huge fan of Daniel Lee after the first season, but appreciate the refreshing change he brought to BV.

Same here ! Only if it betters the house, of course, but also changes dynamics in the whole industry.
 
I have seen a lot of designers having to parrot the lingo of executives and marketing honchos, as a sort of survival mechanism, I guess. But I haven't seen many CEO's being as respectful of the rhythms and dynamics of the creative mind. Maybe because to do so, it takes a lot of emotional intelligence that, as a whole, they lack in spades.
I agree with you and others here on one thing: we are not in the 90's anymore, designers who embark on a job like directing a major fashion house at this point know - or should know - the rules of the game, however unfair they may seem. There is little use in complaining that the suits are too demanding, once you have accepted the role. And I guess the same pressure to perform is on suits as well.

About the lingo, that’s what came with Tom Ford fortunately/unfortunately. You know designers who build their success through their own houses always had that luxury of being protected by their business partners who were most the time their lovers. It’s the Giancarlo Giammetti, the Gaultier of the world.
Tom was really the first one to be everywhere and who wanted to prove his credibility everywhere. I think he liked that but for a lot of designers even of his generation, words like marketing, merchandising and other stuff were like rude words because they always felt like they minimises their creativity.

If you hear Isabel Marant, it’s almost shocking because she has that real business knowledge. She did a business school so she can throw you those words.

Business people are rational, creative are emotional. But fashion unlike Art has a commercial purpose first. So it’s not so much about adopting lingos than showing your rationality.

Sometimes in my comments, it may seems like I’m so much for the suits but it’s also that I understand their positions sometimes. I respect talent, I respond to creativity and I consider myself creative but when you have to meet people who don’t have the same perspective you need to be able to switch mode.

In fashion, more than in any type of art/cultural form, business and creativity are co-dependent.

I often talk about Bernard Arnault and the Arnault as a whole as examples in that management thing. Arnault took over Dior in 1984 under Marc Bohan. Bohan was a diva, much like designers of his time and he is someone who didn’t have to prove himself. I think Arnault learned a lot from that time. Bohan was fired in the least elegant way possible. But, Arnault wanted Dior and understood the power of fashion. And I was always surprised to see how fairly well he has maintained relationships with the designers of the group. Their jobs were demanding. Sometimes he created mini-monsters (we saw it with Galliano) but he is someone who, in his environment has always been surrounded by people who respected the power of fashion.

About the rythmn of fashion, unfortunately, I think that it’s on designers’s hands. I’ve said it, executives aren’t not creative or inventive most of the time. It’s unfortunate but designers have to find ways to manage the amount of work expectations.

I think that it’s maybe time for designers to be designers again. When you aren’t working for your own brand, I find it ridiculous to be able to change the stores, the logo and all the stuff.

The problem is that the suits wanted mini-Karls without the ressources of Karl. They wanted the implication of a Hedi Slimane/ Phoebe Philo/ Tom Ford without the rewards of a Lagerfeld.

And for me, that’s the biggest issue. Because you can respect the rythmns of dynamics of a creative mind buy you have to give the ressources. What are the ressources? Total creative control! I’m a designer, let me do my job. You are the business person? Do your thing! Don’t expect me to do everything for you to get the praises…
That’s what happened with Nicolas.
The commercial success of Balenciaga wasn’t enough for Pinault to give him
total creative control. The commercial success of his Vuitton gives him the luxury to do what he wants.

So yes, today he doesn’t have to care about store designs, the budgets of a campaign for a fragrance, the space to show his collections or even sometimes the commercial viability of his runway propositions. But that’s how you keep a designer happy.

The discussion has went beyond Daniel Lee at this point. He was the new darling of KERING. Sometimes that’s what happen when you are surprised by the success. Michele worked for years before getting his shine. He is similar to MGC or PPP. They experienced the ups and downs and maybe were more prepared for any type of situation.
 
Let's be honest, this approach and bending of the rules is nothing new. There is always going to be one set of rules for celebrities and one set of rules for the rest of the population. Look at the MET Gala. On the day of the gala there was around 3000 cases in NYC, and whilst the staff were all masked, the celebrities were walking the red carpet and partying inside without masks. Ditto at Cannes Film Festival which happened one month later. And the CHANEL Cruise show/after party in the same month. Let's not forget actors, musicians, directors, etc etc, were also travelling to America even when there was an "official" travel ban for ordinary people. You can't be too moralistic and and self-righteous about these kind of issues. Let's get real; the entire entertainment industry operated last year and this year like nothing happened and were given carte blanche, permits, and even incentives, to create, film, produce, etc etc, by local governments. C'est la vie!

You bring up really good, valid points about celebrity culture. One thing I do want to mention is that most of the events that you mention (as far as I know) required COVID tests and/or proof of vaccination.

An enclosed indoor party at Berghain during a moment when Berlin was being hit particularly hard/not yet vaccinated highly enough (and I'm assuming no COVID testing) is more than a 'slight misstep.' It was seen as a HUGE mistake and did a decent amount of damage to the brand's name.

No idea if this had anything to do with his departure, however.
 
It's so disheartening and tiring to read rumours of Lee being "difficult" and I personally don't believe any of it. The truth is, Daniel Lee fought tirelessly for his vision and for his ideas in the face of an increasingly social-media driven commercial industry, and in the end he refused to give in and he left. It is as simple as that.

Let's face it, designers who have strong visions and who don't wish to compromise their visions for the sake of commercialism or corporate pressures, are often labelled "divas" or "megalomaniacs", and when they refuse to compromise, they leave their respective positions and keep their integrity intact. These exits then get misconstrued in the media and people start rumours, such as the below (with clear implications:(


wwd.com/

The core design team at Bottega has stayed consistent since Lee's arrival, with the addition of new designers such as Blazy. For example, Matteo Tamburini, has been there since 2017. Nina Christen, who is the Head Shoe Designer, has been there since 2019.

The fact that WWD would also report the following: [that a] “highly dependable, veteran expert in the operations and supply chain department at the Vicenza headquarters, a key reference point for the company, quit last week" is completely irrelevant. We don't know the context of why or how this happened, why insinuate that it had something to do with Lee? The design team have very little to do with the supply chain (which by the way is 200KM away from the design headquarters is in Via Privata Ercole Marelli in Milan). That part is organised and overseen by corporate. Kering has a slower pace of delivery than LVMH additionally which may have been a problem, but again, nothing to do with the designers.

The truth is, Kering most likely put pressure on Lee to start compromising and being more commercial, and clearly Lee decided to leave rather than compromise his vision, and Kering obviously had different ideas. Respect to him. This happens
all the time in the design world. Hedi Slimane left Saint Laurent because he wanted control of YSL Beauty, which he was turned down.

My first post here, just a reminder that YSL Beauty does not belong to Kering. When Kering won the bidding war on the stock-market to purchase Gucci Group, they overextended their position, so they immediately sold YSL Beauty to L'Oreal. Now, they are desperate to buy it back from L'Oreal and already made 3 offers.
Plus the archives belong to the Fondation Yves-Saint-Laurent, which Kering does not control, and the Yves Saint-Laurent Haute Couture brand, trademark, company and archives belong to Madison Cox, the heir of Pierre Bergé and Yves Saint-Laurent.
So Kering has no power on YSL Beauty, hence the frustation of Hedi Slimane, Pinault or even Vacarello. The relations between SLP and YSL Beauty are non existent, barely a 30 minutes meeting ever couple of months.
YSL has the potential to be a smaller Chanel, Hedi Slimane saw that, but only if the Beauty, RTW and Haute Couture are reunited under the same corporate umbrella and under the same talented Creative Director (Vacarello is also too limited for the role).
 
My first post here, just a reminder that YSL Beauty does not belong to Kering. When Kering won the bidding war on the stock-market to purchase Gucci Group, they overextended their position, so they immediately sold YSL Beauty to L'Oreal. Now, they are desperate to buy it back from L'Oreal and already made 3 offers.
Plus the archives belong to the Fondation Yves-Saint-Laurent, which Kering does not control, and the Yves Saint-Laurent Haute Couture brand, trademark, company and archives belong to Madison Cox, the heir of Pierre Bergé and Yves Saint-Laurent.
So Kering has no power on YSL Beauty, hence the frustation of Hedi Slimane, Pinault or even Vacarello. The relations between SLP and YSL Beauty are non existent, barely a 30 minutes meeting ever couple of months.
YSL has the potential to be a smaller Chanel, Hedi Slimane saw that, but only if the Beauty, RTW and Haute Couture are reunited under the same corporate umbrella and under the same talented Creative Director (Vacarello is also too limited for the role).

Yes, exactly, as we all know Kering (then PPR) officially sold YSL Beauté to L'Oreal (April 30th 2008, formally authorised by the European Commission). Hedi had been clear from the start that he wanted complete control of Saint Laurent, including the cosmetics division, and throughout his tenure, this one was of his goals: to get Kering to acquire the brand from L'Oreal.

In regards to Yves Saint Laurent Haute Couture, whilst the official designation was not available, and will never be due to the contract that Yves and Berge signed themselves back in 1999, Slimane had the understanding and agreement to create an "haute couture" line, under the label Yves Saint Laurent. Everything had been set up: the salons, the department tailleur and flou, etc.

Slimane left essentially because Kering would not acquire YSL Beauté, and furthermore because he would not compromise his vision on other categories. Kudos to him.

Daniel Lee left Bottega because of similar sentiments regarding creative control. Yes, the brand was making lots of money, but as we all know, these groups always want to sell more. There was pressure on Lee because he had visions for the future of the furniture, and perfumes that were inconsistent with the wants of Kering. There were also other categories that were underperforming, like the menswear (which under Tomas Maier were actually quite strong) which Lee would not compromise on.

As we can see, there are always tensions between the creative and corporate entities, a constant push-and-pull, and endless negotiation. Sometimes though things need to exist creatively in order to keep the brand image and aura going, even if they don't sell as much as Kering would like. It's a complex situation and balance.

What Bottega Veneta / Kering need to do now is to mirror what happened with Saint Laurent after Hedi left. They need to hire someone who will continue designing more or less within the same "New Bottega" aesthetic, who will also build on that aesthetic and take it something slightly different in the future, keep all the branding and store designs, etc, and leave everything else to a very strong CEO (à la Francesca Bellettini at Saint Laurent).

If Bottega / Kering can pull that off, and they certainly could if they go the route of Matthieu Blazy, they could double their profits within a few years.
 

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