Defending your fashion interest

[Zal]

With a passion for fashion since I was 10 years old, I´ve always found myself having to defending this choise of "interest" - particulary the part of investing larger sums of money on it. It´s just seemes that some people (parents, acquaintances, relatives, even some friends) have an urge to tell you just how "irresponsible" it is to spend (in there eyes) to much money on a designer garment, a bag, or a pair of shoes.

Not only this, a common behaviour is also that people with a great interest in their apperances are dismissed as stupid and unqualified (see example Elle Woods in the Legally Blonde movies).

Poste your own thoughts or experience about this kind of behaviour. What reactions have you had from others on your fashion interest? Sometimes a interest in fashion also means looking quite different from the mainsteam... Have/are you (been) one of those? How did/do you feel about it?

 

[charlottesometimes]

Interesting topic Zal and one I can totally relate to.

I too have always been interested in fashion and my appearance for as long as I can remember. Although I'm sure vanity plays a part in it for me, I always look at it as my creative outlet, because when I'm super busy and don't get time to sew and paint etc. I've noticed that I really get into my look. I can't say that I spend huge amounts of money on individual items of clothing and accessories, but I do have a large collection (including quite a bit of vintage) and love adding to it when I see something I love (regardless of whether or not I really need it).

I have experienced the criticism and dismissal that you spoke about. My work is in academia and medical research and from what I have seen it is extremely unusual for woman in my field to show any interest in appearance or fashion. In fact, I think they go out of their way to look as daggy and plain as possible....perhaps it is meant to represent their seriousness about their work. I refuse to join them, and turn up each day in full (although subtle) make-up and dressed the way I like to dress. It's funny the reactions and comments I've received over the years, but the one thing that really stands out in my mind is the tendency to be dismissed and taken as not being too serious about my science. I always feel that I have to prove myself just a little harder than the woman who dress down and daggy. In the end, it's not worth worrying about because my work speaks for itself....and I refuse to change the way I dress and look.....but it's a pity that it happens as (I believe) woman in my field already have to work harder to prove themselves.......which I suppose reflects in their tendency to play down their feminity.

I also get a few snide remarks when I buy new things and occasional comments about how much of my salary I spend on clothes etc etc. The funny thing is, I probably spend a lot less that people think as I am, by nature, quite careful with my money and how I spend it. I don't bother trying to justify it though...it's pointless really.....people will think what they want to think.

I'm moving into a different area in my work now, away from science and more toward education. I've noticed that the woman in that area tend to take more of an interest in their appearance and fashion. Actually, come to think of it.......it would be really, really interesting to do some research about attitudes to women's appearances/style/dress in the world of academia and the different fields.

 

[As You Like It]

Well, I don't spend much money on fashion, but I know that my personal style choices are sometimes considered weird, and I've had people think I'm a flake because I don't dress in "normal" clothes.

Most people I know don't know much about fashion, especially not fashion history, which is an especial interest and passion for me. I can talk about the original Chanel, Elsa Schiaparelli, Yves St. Laurent (though I'm never quite sure how you say "Yves,") or how Worth created the concept of designer name recognition. My other big interest is making clothes, another passion few people share. It allows me to indulge my tendency for offbeat clothes and precise fitting, but I've had people suggest to me that it is a rather archaic pursuit, and a waste of time, when you can just buy something at the GAP and be done with it. I think people would roll their eyes or fall asleep if I launched into a treatise on why I don't think today's Christian Dior label shouldn't even exist, since it's nothing in spirit like Dior originally designed.

Mostly, however, I deal with snap judgements people make when they look at a woman who wears bright colors and a lot of accessories, because apparently it generates an immature or foolish appearance. I get pegged as "quirky" or punkish, or not serious enough. I had a customer express doubt as to my ability to run the cashier station at work on Thursday. I was wearing brown corduroy jeans, an orange square-neck tee-shirt with puffed sleeves, two necklaces which tied the outfit together, and Doc Martens. Not an inappropriate outfit for my office or age, but apparently, to him I looked like some kind of nutbar, and he wouldn't be served by me, and openly snubbed me and went and waited for my other co-worker to become available to help him.

 

[Zal]

charlottesometimes, I can really identify myself in what you descibe being a student in political science and history. The academic climate aren´t always friendly towards people who takes an interest in things that are considered as "superficial". However I did get a female lecturer who was very "stylish" and "feminine" in her way, wich accually strengthen my own confidence a bit. As it turned out some of the other students found it hard to take her seriously because of that . I condsider every female within the academical world a good role model, it´s not always easy... Great subject for research, but no doubt it would be categorized within "gender studies"...


Ah... The one blessed with the talents of making their own clothes is sure lucky. I was never very good at sewing. And I´m a terrible vintage shopper, I can never find anything and when I do it doesn´t fit me. You can do amazing things with vintage and personal creations, although I lack the skill for that

As You Like It - What a tragical customer! Some people in sweden working within hospital care arn´t allowd to have piercing since it´s considered to "frighten" the patients. It´s understandable - and yet not...

 

[TheSoCalledPrep]

I deal with this problem alot... I have to think about it, though, because I'm not sure if I have anything enlightening to say about it...

 

[lovespell]

I can definitly relate too this topic. But it's the woman that are most snobby about it. They look down on me, assume I'm stuck up the moment I walk in the door if I'm well dressed. Or they try to compete by telling me all about their Dooney and Burke bag, or how they bought a pair of Gucci sunglasses for $20 and are really offended when I tell them they are probably fake.

Money does not define fashion, but I get really annoyed with the college girls around here who strut around in Hollister, Acrombie and American Eagle thinking they are hot stuff because they are wearing "high end designer" stuff.

 

[POTC_ROXS]

Yes i get "you're wasting your money" and "youre crazy" often, but i say "its MY money and ill spend it how I want."

 

[tinuvielberen]

Anyone who assumes a woman is incompetent or stupid because she looks typically feminine (fashionable clothes, full makeup, pretty hair) is nothing more nor less than a misogynist.

What you're experiencing, Charlottesometimes, is simple sexism. I'm glad Zag mentioned the Legally Blonde movies, as I actually saw them as a wonderful expression of girl power. The protagonist was "girly" in every conceivable way, and this was a considerable handicap; yet she never compromised her identity in any way, and was successful despite prejudice.

Perhaps your daggy, plain collegues really do have zero interest in fashion, and this is their preferred mode of dress; but if they are adopting such an appearance as a career move, I'd call them sell-outs and cowards. One of my pet peeves is women who call themselves feminists, but who are themselves anti-feminine. I really do think that the way to convince people that feminine does NOT equal stupid is to demonstrate competency on the job while remaining true to our identities.

I dress in a way that suits me and suits my job, but is unabashedly and unapologetically feminine.

 

[charlottesometimes]

Anyone who assumes a woman is incompetent or stupid because she looks typically feminine (fashionable clothes, full makeup, pretty hair) is nothing more nor less than a misogynist.

What you're experiencing, Charlottesometimes, is simple sexism. I'm glad Zag mentioned the Legally Blonde movies, as I actually saw them as a wonderful expression of girl power. The protagonist was "girly" in every conceivable way, and this was a considerable handicap; yet she never compromised her identity in any way, and was successful despite prejudice.

Perhaps your daggy, plain collegues really do have zero interest in fashion, and this is their preferred mode of dress; but if they are adopting such an appearance as a career move, I'd call them sell-outs and cowards. One of my pet peeves is women who call themselves feminists, but who are themselves anti-feminine. I really do think that the way to convince people that feminine does NOT equal stupid is to demonstrate competency on the job while remaining true to our identities.

I dress in a way that suits me and suits my job, but is unabashedly and unapologetically feminine.

I agree tinuvielberen, it is sexism, but what I experience has always been very subtle and I would imagine that most people wouldn't even be aware that they are doing it. I broached the subject once with a male colleague (who I feel is guilty of this type of sexism) and he vehemently denied that he thought that way, even subconsciously.

You could be right about most of my female colleagues being uninterested in fashion, but the funny thing is, the trend seems to be that the more senior the position, the less interest in appearance and the more tendency to play down femininity. Sadly, I believe that feminine qualities (and I don't just mean appearance) aren't valued in powerful positions in my field.

Zal, it's such a shame to hear about the negative attitudes to your stylish female lecturer. I hope she continues to dress to suit her tastes, and doesn't cave in to these sexist stereotypes.

I find this topic so interesting. I would seriously love to be involved in research in this area. I'm convinced that there is an inherent anti-feminine vibe happening in academia (and IMO woman can be just as guilty of perpetuating the inequalities as men)....and I'm sure it happens in other areas as well.

 

[arlekindearrabal]

I deal with this problem alot... I have to think about it, though, because I'm not sure if I have anything enlightening to say about it...

exactly...

 

[tinuvielberen]

I agree tinuvielberen, it is sexism, but what I experience has always been very subtle and I would imagine that most people wouldn't even be aware that they are doing it. I broached the subject once with a male colleague (who I feel is guilty of this type of sexism) and he vehemently denied that he thought that way, even subconsciously.

You might point your colleague to this:

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/Instructions

It's a test of implicit associations, designed to tease out subconscious associations (i.e. predjudice) between scientific ability and gender.

 

[Missoni~Heiress]

it is a part of me... who wants to live a boring life... fashion can take you places and you can drift from inspiration to inspiration...

 

[arlekindearrabal]

it is a part of me... who wants to live a boring life... fashion can take you places and you can drift from inspiration to inspiration...

i totally agree, jssy

 

[AlexN]

Yes i get "you're wasting your money" and "youre crazy" often, but i say "its MY money and ill spend it how I want."

Mmmhmm...

 

[Spike413]

The way I feel is, for a person who has absolutely no interest in high fashion what so ever and who wouldn't know the difference if they were wearing J. Crew or John Galliano of course it seems rediculous to spend very large amounts of money on clothing. But for a person like me who follows the fashion industry and appreciates it as more then just clothes to cover my body it's totally worth it. I've often had people that are shocked that I'd be willing to spend $800 on a pair of shoes if I loved them and could afford it and the only conclusion I have come to after all of this time is, it just doesn't interest them like it does me.

As far as the stereotype that people interested in fashion and appearence are shallow and unintelligent....I really just let people who meet me find out for themselves that it's not true. Of course I absolutely hate the fact that because I care about how I look and what I wear, and that I'm so interested in something that is seemingly all about appearence, it automatically makes me dumb, vain and spoiled.
I guess I've just come to a point where I no longer feel the need to defend my love of fashion, people can either try to understand it (or just simply accept it) or they can make their judgements about me and my priorities....either way, it doesn't really bother me.

 

[PrincessImp.]

charlottesometimes, you have my empathy and agreement with everything that you have posted.

Better words could not have been said. I too, am working in, what is traditionally perceived as a male-dominated field, that of engineering in the avionics industry. A lot of girls in my workplace tend not to care about their appearance too much, one could be partly because they think that they will be perceived as better engineers as downplaying their feminitiy (as you have so aptly pointed out), and another because I am just working in staid, sensible Singapore.

My family just doesn't understand why I speak so much on clothes and accessories, they would rather that I put aside money into that apartment or car. But I refuse to follow that mundane route that every Singaporean graduate follows - yes, it is sensible, but life would be so much boring. Besides I do try to save and only buy things that I can afford.

Often I do find myself having to explain the things that I buy, which is so sad, because I earn my money and I don't even have to do it

I get a lot of people telling me that I am in the wrong line, that I should really be in some fashion-related job. But I just don't understand why I can't be a competent engineer and yet dress well at the same thing. I can never understand why a well-dressed female engineer is seen as an oxymoron in my little part of the world. I prefer to let my work speak for myself and so far, no one has questioned my work ability.

I get a lot of male colleagues who think that the standard of your dressing is inversely proportional to your work ability. A lot of them deny this, but they feel that dressing up should be done by women in certain jobs, mostly in the creative industry, or the marketing and sales people.

Thanks, Zal, for such an interesting topic.

 

[fixoid]

I can never understand why a well-dressed female engineer is seen as an oxymoron in my little part of the world

i guess you have never read dilbert.i think dilbert sums up the attitudes of those in technical professions to fashion quite well.there is one strip where dilbert constructs a rain coat out of a black garbage bag.then one of his co workers asks him if he's going to go out for lunch and he replies "only if it's raining"
i think that many people in those professions put function before form.so as long as there clothes keep them dry/warm/unnaked then they don't really care what they are.i often see geek friends of mine in very "high-tech" rain coats or cargo pants with many many pockets.
in relation to the actual topic i dress fairly normally and don't really talk about it unless i'm with certain people i know are interested. i don't have any problems.

 

[charlottesometimes]

chiangsi1980 it's really interesting to hear that you experience a similar situation in your field. Congrats to you for not giving in to pressure...I agree, life would be so boring if we all went the sensible route.

tinuvielberen thanks for that link. I can't seem to get to that specific test, it keeps on taking me to questionnaires about mountains and American landmarks (maybe I'm doing something wrong????). I would love to take it myself...and pass it around to some of my colleagues. I suspect the results would be very interesting.

This has been a great topic.

 

[PrincessImp.]

i guess you have never read dilbert.i think dilbert sums up the attitudes of those in technical professions to fashion quite well.there is one strip where dilbert constructs a rain coat out of a black garbage bag.then one of his co workers asks him if he's going to go out for lunch and he replies "only if it's raining"
i think that many people in those professions put function before form.so as long as there clothes keep them dry/warm/unnaked then they don't really care what they are.i often see geek friends of mine in very "high-tech" rain coats or cargo pants with many many pockets.
in relation to the actual topic i dress fairly normally and don't really talk about it unless i'm with certain people i know are interested. i don't have any problems.

I do read Dilbert. Sad to say, a lot of the characters in that strip does appear in the cube farm where I work B)

I think your statement about "function before form" aptly sums up the mindset of my colleagues and for that matter, a lot of people around me. I certainly don't see anything wrong with that, but I just don't agree on why the work competency of a woman, or her sensibilities, comes into question when she chooses to make form and function equitable

 

[tinuvielberen]

tinuvielberen thanks for that link. I can't seem to get to that specific test, it keeps on taking me to questionnaires about mountains and American landmarks (maybe I'm doing something wrong????). I would love to take it myself...and pass it around to some of my colleagues. I suspect the results would be very interesting.

Hmm, I thought it would dump you right into the test, but evidently not...

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/index.jsp

Ok, click on the link, then click on the British flag (far right of the flags). On the next page, click on "Go to the demonstration tests." On the next page, click "I wish to proceed." Then the page full of tests comes up: click on "Gender IAT." This test looks at attitudes regarding women and science.

The other tests are interesting as well, including the racism one.