Designer John Galliano Arrested in Paris, fired from Dior

[Leeroi]

Just to make it clear, just because you're gay doesn't mean you automatically cannot be antisemitic or a "Hitler-lover", though loving Hitler is a bit extreme. There's plenty of gays in the world who are ashamed of being gay and would love to be "straight".

And I might ask.... why Galliano shouldn't be blamed for this? Considering we don't know if he's actually mentally ill (for the most part that's all assumptions made by people).

The words came from his mouth, drunk or not, plain and simple. It was extremely offensive in every sense of the word. The idea that the people who owned the video are "milking" the story or releasing it only for the money does not negate or change what he said.

People aren't saying it, but many of the posters here are pretty much implying that people shouldn't be offended or as offended of what he said. That's like me jokingly calling someone a fa**ot and telling the person he shouldn't be offended because I was just joking and that I'm gay too....

I think many people are just too caught up on the fact that this is Galliano we are talking about, so they're trying to find as many excuses, explanations, or justifications to what or why he said. But really, the bottom line is.... it was offensive.

- - - -

A bit of a sidenote, I saw in another thread (I believe it was Galliano's collection thread) that someone stated that LVMH/Dior firing Galliano was disrespectful? Ummm....

 

[camilllllla]

I don't think anyone is saying that what Galliano said isn't wrong or that people shouldn't be offended but that we shouldn't be so quick to judge and condemn him to the fiery pits of hell.

 

[Flashbang]

I don't think anyone is saying that what Galliano said isn't wrong or that people shouldn't be offended but that we shouldn't be so quick to judge and condemn him to the fiery pits of hell.

This, this, and THIS.

 

[chloehandbags]

So, we're gonna "blame it on the alcohol"?????? Please...

I love and admire this man's ability, do not get me wrong..his work utterly fascinates me...but when I'M drunk, I'm not saying racist statements. Goofy statements yes, but not racist.

As another John (Lennon) has said, "As within, so without".

Yes, but maybe you're a 'good' drunk?

As I mentioned, on another thread, some people (even children!) are 'bad' drunks.

 

[chloehandbags]

I don't think anyone is saying that what Galliano said isn't wrong or that people shouldn't be offended but that we shouldn't be so quick to judge and condemn him to the fiery pits of hell.

Quite.

What he said was very wrong (appalling, even) - I haven't heard one person say otherwise, but expecting people from predominantly Christian backgrounds (as many of us, no doubt, are), to not follow the teachings of Christ and to judge, despite having been specifically taught not to, is completely unfair, isn't it?

 

[chloehandbags]

People aren't saying it, but many of the posters here are pretty much implying that people shouldn't be offended or as offended of what he said.

I think it is extremely unfair to try to read between the lines, like that.

To my knowledge, people have not said that, so to just assume they mean it is wrong.

Very sadly, I would imagine that his words have not just offended, but emotionally hurt, a great number of innocent people.

However, conversely, I think you could also, equally well, argue that suggesting that drunkeness shouldn't ever be considered a mitigating factor, in situations like this, just makes the people who have been hurt feel even more so?

As they are, basically, being categorically told that his words must have come from his heart, when we have no way at all of knowing if that is the case and if anything, the evidence of him never having shown any signs of racism, whilst sober, would suggest the contrary.

 

[tigerrouge]

Enduring a period of public shame is certainly preferable to spending time in one of those real-life pits of hell that he was so eloquently mentioning in his rants.

 

[brooksie]

^^^Religion and it's influences can also harden the heart too. It can make people very vengeful and hypocritical towards others perceived to NOT be "in the group". Frankly much of what I'm seeing on this matter is the "tar and feathering" type of retribution. People enjoy seeing the mighty fall and Galliano was nothing sort of mighty for some people. It's easy to kick a man when he's down and honestly I feel that's what's driving much of the outrage towards Galliano IMHO.

I said it before and I'll say it again. Racism is hardly rare in fashion. Unless someone yells it from the rooftops as Galliano did, it seems to slide by unnoticed and often justified/rationalized. Most people that feel the way Galliano seems to whisper such sentiments rather than yell them...and it's the whisperers that worry me most.

Gallano's going on trial for this, so it'd not like he's gonna just get off scot free. Even if he's acquitted, his name is mud and he has the humiliation of a trial to face. IOW, he'll get his comeuppance w/ interest, so I'll leave my tar and feathers at home!

 

[mistress_f]

Originally planned at the famous French brasserie La Coupole, the John Galliano F/W presentation was cancelled by LVMH, who owns the majority share in John Galliano’s namesake brand (precisely 87%). But Alexandre De Betak, who has been John Galliano’s longtime contributor, choreographing and art directing his shows for years, miraculously made it happen. He organized a radiant show with models who accepted to walk in the show for free. The presentation was moved to a beautiful hôtel particulier on avenue Foch. The good news is that Dior CEO Sidney Toledano was there to greet everyone. Hopefully this is a sign that maybe LVMH will give John Galliano another chance and let his brand survive

(purple-diary)

i had no idea models walked for free at this presentation. i guess it says alot about how they feel about this.

 

[jomarlushka]

Just to make it clear, just because you're gay doesn't mean you automatically cannot be antisemitic or a "Hitler-lover", though loving Hitler is a bit extreme. There's plenty of gays in the world who are ashamed of being gay and would love to be "straight".

And I might ask.... why Galliano shouldn't be blamed for this? Considering we don't know if he's actually mentally ill (for the most part that's all assumptions made by people).

The words came from his mouth, drunk or not, plain and simple. It was extremely offensive in every sense of the word. The idea that the people who owned the video are "milking" the story or releasing it only for the money does not negate or change what he said.

People aren't saying it, but many of the posters here are pretty much implying that people shouldn't be offended or as offended of what he said. That's like me jokingly calling someone a fa**ot and telling the person he shouldn't be offended because I was just joking and that I'm gay too....

I think many people are just too caught up on the fact that this is Galliano we are talking about, so they're trying to find as many excuses, explanations, or justifications to what or why he said. But really, the bottom line is.... it was offensive.

- - - -

A bit of a sidenote, I saw in another thread (I believe it was Galliano's collection thread) that someone stated that LVMH/Dior firing Galliano was disrespectful? Ummm....

totally agree with you milking the video is not worse than what Galliano did and I do not understand why people keep on whining about the video release rather than what Galliano uttered, drunk or not - it's unacceptable, provoked or unprovoked. i can only talk for me and people i know and seen drunk - no one started talking about loving Hitler...I think it was the right step to fire him and send him to rehab...maybe he'll see things 'clearer' after clearing his body and mind

 

[Ciao!Manhattan]

Originally planned at the famous French brasserie La Coupole, the John Galliano F/W presentation was cancelled by LVMH, who owns the majority share in John Galliano’s namesake brand (precisely 87%). But Alexandre De Betak, who has been John Galliano’s longtime contributor, choreographing and art directing his shows for years, miraculously made it happen. He organized a radiant show with models who accepted to walk in the show for free. The presentation was moved to a beautiful hôtel particulier on avenue Foch. The good news is that Dior CEO Sidney Toledano was there to greet everyone. Hopefully this is a sign that maybe LVMH will give John Galliano another chance and let his brand survive
(purple-diary)

i had no idea models walked for free at this presentation. i guess it says alot about how they feel about this.

I love how the models are sometimes really helping the fashion designer. For the final collection of Christian Lacroix, they also walk for free, if I remember well. Some models are just really invested in fashion, I think it's great.


One model had a star of David on her arm while walking for the show :

daylife

 

[prosperk]

In his grocery store, not far from Goldenbergs, the restaurant that was targeted by terrorists in 1982 and is now a men's clothing shop, Dan says that local people live in fear of attack. But he adds: "It's a peaceful place on the whole. We have a Jewish saying: you can tell what's in the heart of a man by how he behaves when he's drunk, when he's angry and when he has money. I think we have seen what's in the heart of Galliano."

Read more: Designer John Galliano Arrested in Paris, fired from Dior - Page 51 - the Fashion Spot http://forums.thefashionspot.com/f6...paris-fired-dior-127261-51.html#ixzz1FvyGqH3y

Goldenberg's delicatessen was a wonderful place, founded and run by Shoah survivor Jo Goldenberg until it was closed down on health grounds by local authority inspectors after Mr Goldenberg not only voted for the Front National but encouraged other Jews to do so too, which contributed to Jean-Marie Le Pen's second place in the first round of the 2002 presidential elections in France. French sources suggested than tens of thousands of French Jews voted for the FN. Others suggested the figure was even higher.

"He's representative of a minority, a sad and mistaken but we think quite sizeable minority, who decided to vote for Mr Le Pen because they are tired and frightened by the mounting level of anti-Jewish tension and violence in this country," Michel Zaoui, a lawyer and leading member of CRIF, the Jewish umbrella organisation, said yesterday.

In the three weeks leading up to Sunday's first-round presidential vote, as Arab-Israeli bloodshed increased in the Middle East, the police recorded 395 attacks on Jewish targets in France, ranging from verbal insults and graffiti to physicalassaults and arson. Big potential targets, such as city synagogues, are still under round-the-clock police guard.

"I could never vote Le Pen, but I do understand the Jews who did. Le Pen was the first to promise a crackdown on violence and strict controls on immigrants, and that's all they want to hear," said Sammy, who runs a jewellery shop near the Rue des Rosiers, where Mr Goldenberg's popular restaurant was blown up in 1982.

"They forget the things he's said, the anti-semitic jokes he cracks, the Nazi-inspired slogans, the gas chambers being a detail of history, all that. They see his new acceptable face now, and they want an undisturbed life. It's a reaction I deplore, but can easily understand."

Six people died and 22 were wounded in the bomb attack in the Rue des Rosiers. It was blamed on the terrorist Abu Nidal but no one has ever been arrested for it.

After the attack the restaurant became a gathering place for Holocaust survivors and resistance heroes, the bombing regularly commemorated with flowers, bittersweet Yiddish music and prayers.

Its new owner, Max Grinberg, angrily rejected his predecessor's views. "His words are the ramblings of a 79-year-old man who has forgotten what he himself has lived through and how much his family has suffered at the hands of people who think like Mr Le Pen."

The CRIF has urged France's 600,000 Jews not to abstain but to vote for Mr Chirac on May 5, to head off the candidate of "racism, xenophobia and anti-semitism". Not all will follow its advice.

Source: The Guardian (UK) 26.4.2002

 

[coco vaughn]

^^ that's interesting. who is that model?

 

[KKnardi]

^yes, wanna know that too!

 

[Flashbang]

Should be Viviane Orth.

 

[educo]

Yeah, Natalia Vodianova said that being from Russia, she's seen drunk people and she's seen what people do under the influence. She said that she does not blame Galliano at all for this.

educo, what if you were really drunk and someone was insulting+annoying you?

I'm sure the "I love Hitler" thing wasn't serious. He said "I love Hitler because people like you would be dead". His point is that people like whoever's talking to him would be dead. I find it highly unlikely that he actually loves Hitler, considering the fact that he's gay.

Of course it wasn't very smart of him, but this isn't a proper basis to claim that someone's openly racist.

Firstly, I would not escalate the matter the way he did. And if I needed to insult back to enforce the line they crossed, I would probably insult on character alone, not on RACE. Race, gender, sexual orientation, religion has nothing to do with a person's ultimate character which is my whole point.

 

[educo]

Yes, but maybe you're a 'good' drunk?

As I mentioned, on another thread, some people (even children!) are 'bad' drunks.

Good drunk, bad drunk it doesn't matter. It's about the character of a person here, not the alchohol.

Here's a question..how do we know he DOES NOT feel this way behind closed doors?

 

[Eterna]

^ ...how do we know he DOES feel this way behind closed doors?
we know neither one thing nor the other and don't know if we know it someday. We can not enter anyone's head.

 

[chloehandbags]

^ Exactly.

 

[chloehandbags]

Good drunk, bad drunk it doesn't matter. It's about the character of a person here, not the alchohol.

Ah, but it does matter - it matters very much.

This is because some very nice, kind, peaceful people turn into raving lunatics, as soon as they have a drink.

Their brains just have a bad chemical reaction to alchohol.

So, their normal character has very little to do with it.