Designers Switching Houses & Moving to New Brands

[IndigoHomme]

Maybe there's a thread for personal wishes, but i just come to share my dream about Daniel W. Fletcher for Burberry

 

[LadyJunon]

Marc Jacobs at Chanel could also be an interesting proposition. Albeit his designs lately have been quite confused, he does have the skills and imagination to push the house codes forward and create buzz, and yet maintain simple and elegant clothes. Marc Jacobs collection clothes pre-pandemic have always been romantic, simple, and very well made.

Honestly, LVMH really f*cked Marc over with that post-pandemic business model. What's the point of skipping NYFW for a see now, buy now strategy only for them not to actually produce or sell the collection they've shown.

It would be nice to have him at Chanel (even though I'd rather have Ghesquière there by 1'000 fold), because he needs a structure to thrive. Unfortunately, his name is forever attached to LVMH, so that's never happening.

 

[youthinasia]

Maybe there's a thread for personal wishes, but i just come to share my dream about Daniel W. Fletcher for Burberry

I can see it

 

[Deleted member 7575]

I had heard from an interesting source that Marc was the original pick by the Wertheimers to succeed Lagerfeld and that they had already begun training him in all the ins and outs of the of the ateliers before Lagerfeld died so that Marc could hit the ground running when he started.

Either this wasn't the case (although my source adamantly believed it was) or, somehow, the deal fell through and they decided to go with Virginie instead.

But regarding Marc's current state, I would not blame LVMH as if they've been screwing Marc over. He's lucky they haven't sold the busines.

Fortunately their current strategy has allowed them use his mid-life crisis to turn MJ into the new Gen Z Michael Kors but who knows how long that will last.

Sad to say but I think Jacobs is past his prime.

 

[Kennnnn]

I think Marc Jacobs would be great for Chanel. He might take it in a very Sofia Coppola direction, which would be quite fresh and interesting.

 

[Lola701]

Honestly, LVMH really f*cked Marc over with that post-pandemic business model. What's the point of skipping NYFW for a see now, buy now strategy only for them not to actually produce or sell the collection they've shown.

It would be nice to have him at Chanel (even though I'd rather have Ghesquière there by 1'000 fold), because he needs a structure to thrive. Unfortunately, his name is forever attached to LVMH, so that's never happening.

It’s more that LVMH, I must say Bernard Arnault, has real respect for Marc and did his best to have a strategy that works for the brand.
They produce the collection but it’s only sold by Bergdorf.

They realized quickly after merging all the lines that the cachet of Marc is totally dead.

American luxury is a tough thing to sell. Bernard Arnault was very dismissive of Michael Kors’s business when he exposed his ambition for Marc Jacobs but it turn out that when you aren’t Thom Browne, Tom Ford or Rick Owens, it’s very difficult to sell the concept of luxury as an American brand.

I think that Marc Jacobs can be rebranded as a real contemporary brand à la JWA but only when Marc retires.

 

[Nimsay]

Arnault was dismissive of kors because his bread and butter department store line is/was basically knock off Dior: LV - any brand that was in the moment. I recall seeing 100% Dior inspired bags for MK and I knew their relationship wouldnt last much longer. And it didnt.

MK may be the only designer ever to have bested Bernard Arnault.

 

[Nimsay]

Marc would be perfect at Chanel since we all know he can do couture. Really. It would probably be unbelievably chic and new. He could also bring bags since - again - Marcs bags for LV are some of the most famous bags made ever.


American luxury fashion is unironically all about being very like Puritan New England in the discretion. Ralph Lauren is the king because 1k cashmere sweaters with no brand is the American look. kors collection is also a pretty serious label. That sort of workwear denim wild wild west pragmatic energy is American luxury. No flourishes at all just practicality. Its like Rolex - expensive because of the quality and manufacture not prestige pricing. No flourishes - Utilitarian Luxury. That is why so many fail at American luxury. Marcs own line was very UnAmerican in its kitchy sort of cartoony look and VERY expensive for what it was.

Ralph Rucci screams American luxury but he missed the mark with his fabric choices. They were too glitzy. Too many lamés and not enough ‘hearty’ fabrics like silk twill. Too much charmeuse not enough matte crepe de chine.

 

[LadyJunon]

American luxury is a tough thing to sell. Bernard Arnault was very dismissive of Michael Kors’s business when he exposed his ambition for Marc Jacobs but it turn out that when you aren’t Thom Browne, Tom Ford or Rick Owens, it’s very difficult to sell the concept of luxury as an American brand.

American luxury fashion is unironically all about being very like Puritan New England in the discretion. Ralph Lauren is the king because 1k cashmere sweaters with no brand is the American look. kors collection is also a pretty serious label. That sort of workwear denim wild wild west pragmatic energy is American luxury. No flourishes at all just practicality. Its like Rolex - expensive because of the quality and manufacture not prestige pricing. No flourishes - Utilitarian Luxury. That is why so many fail at American luxury. Marcs own line was very UnAmerican in its kitchy sort of cartoony look and VERY expensive for what it was.

Ralph Rucci screams American luxury but he missed the mark with his fabric choices. They were too glitzy. Too many lamés and not enough ‘hearty’ fabrics like silk twill. Too much charmeuse not enough matte crepe de chine.

Arnault was dismissive of kors because his bread and butter department store line is/was basically knock off Dior: LV - any brand that was in the moment. I recall seeing 100% Dior inspired bags for MK and I knew their relationship wouldnt last much longer. And it didnt.

Now I'm thinking about it, America hasn't really produced any true visionaries in high fashion sphere. The ones who were unconventional (Tord Ford, Rick Owens, Thom Browne) had to build up a name in Europe. In the US, there's a luxury audience, but no high fashion audience.

Designers like YSL, Cardin or Courrèges couldn't have been based in America. Nor could designers like Alaïa, Mugler or Gaultier. The US fashion scene never had a "Japanese/British/Belgian Invasion" or a mass of old dead luxury houses to revive either.

Their labels don't seem to have the best workers either. I remember Peter Copping in an interview expressing frustration at how "rough" the work Oscar de la Renta's "ateliers" produced was compared to Nina Ricci's despite similar price points.

 

[fenty]

I think Marc is capable of anything, its just his brand's current state that may have people think other wise.

 

[Nimsay]

Now I'm thinking about it, America hasn't really produced any true visionaries in high fashion sphere. The ones who were unconventional (Tord Ford, Rick Owens, Thom Browne) had to build up a name in Europe. In the US, there's a luxury audience, but no high fashion audience.

Designers like YSL, Cardin or Courrèges couldn't have been based in America. Nor could designers like Alaïa, Mugler or Gaultier. The US fashion scene never had a "Japanese/British/Belgian Invasion" or a mass of old dead luxury houses to revive either.

Their labels don't seem to have the best workers either. I remember Peter Copping in an interview expressing frustration at how "rough" the work Oscar de la Renta's "ateliers" produced was compared to Nina Ricci's despite similar price points.

Dont forget Halston! He had his own look and lifestyle ideas. Prob the greatest American designer of all time.

ok but the relationship of Paris to France and NYC to USA is very different. The people in NY may look at non NYers as different but they do not openly disdain them like in Paris. The Paris fashion grew to look this way to differentiate the people from Ile-de-France from the rest of France. The same as Parisienne cooking - the fashion is very complex and hard to do compared to other styles. Thats the point. Thats the Prestige. You show in Paris because your clothes are hard to make, hard to replicate and are different looking to ensure no relation is made to the Folksy Southern or Northern French.

In america Folksy is embraced as apart of the culture of the country. Also I think American fashion is still highly influenced by the great depression and Americans who have family that lived through that believe that flourishes are wasteful. You can justify a gorgeous cashmere sweater with patches on the elbow because it will last forever. Buying a cashmere sweater to wear for one season - like in Paris. Is a type of whimsical consumerism that doesnt really exist in America. The only sub group that does that kind of consuming are the hip hop genre and the suburban kids who are rudderless and cultureless.

That just means ODLR doesnt pay. there are many wonderful couture level seamstresses in America. Mostly teaching at Art schools. Karl Lagerfeld said a true couture operation is very expensive and time consuming to put together.

also ODLR is not a French brand. There is no reason for complex seamwork that isnt the NYC code. Its about simple clean practical. And if Peter Copping is so knowledgeable why isnt he teaching the Atelier things?

 

[GoldenTribe]

Buying a cashmere sweater to wear for one season - like in Paris - is a type of whimsical consumerism that doesnt really exist in America.

Does anyone actually believe this? It is manifestly wrong, and attempting to reduce a global consumer mindset into national blocs is as pointless as it is absurd.

For the record, I'm not American!

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Does anyone actually believe this? It is manifestly wrong, and attempting to reduce a global consumer mindset into national blocs is as pointless as it is absurd.

For the record, I'm not American!

No! I just don't have the time or energy to comment.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Now I'm thinking about it, America hasn't really produced any true visionaries in high fashion sphere. The ones who were unconventional (Tord Ford, Rick Owens, Thom Browne) had to build up a name in Europe. In the US, there's a luxury audience, but no high fashion audience.

Designers like YSL, Cardin or Courrèges couldn't have been based in America. Nor could designers like Alaïa, Mugler or Gaultier. The US fashion scene never had a "Japanese/British/Belgian Invasion" or a mass of old dead luxury houses to revive either.

Their labels don't seem to have the best workers either. I remember Peter Copping in an interview expressing frustration at how "rough" the work Oscar de la Renta's "ateliers" produced was compared to Nina Ricci's despite similar price points.

Im sorry but this is dumbest nonsense I've ever read.

 

[susseinmcswanny]

Is this bait or

 

[Nimsay]

No! I just don't have the time or energy to comment.

Youve been here like 20 years. Im sure you can manage something.

Im sorry but this is dumbest nonsense I've ever read.

please tell us why I want to expand accurate knowledge of fashion.

Is this bait or

Correct whatever you think is wrong.

 

[Nimsay]

Does anyone actually believe this? It is manifestly wrong, and attempting to reduce a global consumer mindset into national blocs is as pointless as it is absurd.

For the record, I'm not American!

have you been to america? Or Paris?

Thinking americans are consumers is a really delusional thought. Maybe some pockets of Americans are - usually rudderless Yuppies who are confused and think that luxury products should be investments. The people who wont wear a bracelet with their 18k rolex to not scrape off a micron of gold. these people are usually isolated in America and have few real friends or connections. In America that Protestant break your back working and dont show it off is STILL the mindset. i worked in Diamonds in Manhattan for my first career and no Americans are not consumers and are very shrewd about what they buy.


Youre probably confusing McDonalds with consumerism and whatever tou see on your TV. McDonalds is popular worldwide.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Now I'm thinking about it, America hasn't really produced any true visionaries in high fashion sphere. The ones who were unconventional (Tord Ford, Rick Owens, Thom Browne) had to build up a name in Europe. In the US, there's a luxury audience, but no high fashion audience.

Designers like YSL, Cardin or Courrèges couldn't have been based in America. Nor could designers like Alaïa, Mugler or Gaultier. The US fashion scene never had a "Japanese/British/Belgian Invasion" or a mass of old dead luxury houses to revive either.

Their labels don't seem to have the best workers either. I remember Peter Copping in an interview expressing frustration at how "rough" the work Oscar de la Renta's "ateliers" produced was compared to Nina Ricci's despite similar price points.

First of all, America has been the largest and most important market for high fashion (European or otherwise) since the 1920s. Jean Patou ruled the 1920s with an American clientele. Why do you think the French were even designing so much sportswear at that time? It was for the Americans.

This is why some of the best Dior and Balenciaga archives IN THE WORLD are in Texas, Philly, Chicago. It was the American heiresses who were the top clients and who were buying the most extravagant models. The 1950s couture boom was funded by American industrialists via their wives.

America’s answer to Vionnet, Dior and Balenciaga was Charles James who Balenciaga once praised as the “only one in the world who has raised dressmaking from an applied art to pure art.” His words, not mine.

America’s answer to Cardin was Rudi Gernreich who was actually more radical, innovative, and influential.

It also had Bonnie Cashin who is probably one of the most innovative designers of all time. Her clothes were so well made that Hermes sold them at their stores in Paris. Ghesqueire, Phoebe, JW Anderson have all knocked off Cashin at least once.

America could not have had an Yves Saint Laurent because it had Halston and Geoffrey Beene who were more technically advanced and skilled. Certainly their clothes are more modern. Especially Beene who could have cut circles around Alaia.

And America did have its “invasion.” It’s literally called the “Battle of Versailles.”

America has had plenty of visionary designers:

Charles James, Claire McCardell, Halston, Geoffrey Beene, Bonnie Cashin, Rudi Gernreich, Isabel Toledo, James Galanos, Adrian, Giorgio di sant Angelo, Pauline Trigere, Kos van den Akker, Mary McFadden, Zoran, Shamask, Yeoh Lee, etc.

 

[Nimsay]

First of all, America has been the largest and most important market for high fashion (European or otherwise) since the 1920s. Jean Patou ruled the 1920s with an American clientele. Why do you think the French were even designing so much sportswear at that time? It was for the Americans.

This is why some of the best Dior and Balenciaga archives IN THE WORLD are in Texas, Philly, Chicago. It was the American heiresses who were the top clients and who were buying the most extravagant models. The 1950s couture boom was funded by American industrialists via their wives.

America’s answer to Vionnet, Dior and Balenciaga was Charles James who Balenciaga once praised as the “only one in the world who has raised dressmaking from an applied art to pure art.” His words, not mine.

America’s answer to Cardin was Rudi Gernreich who was actually more radical, innovative, and influential.

It also had Bonnie Cashin who is probably one of the most innovative designers of all time. Her clothes were so well made that Hermes sold them at their stores in Paris. Ghesqueire, Phoebe, JW Anderson have all knocked off Cashin at least once.

America could not have had an Yves Saint Laurent because it had Halston and Geoffrey Beene who were more technically advanced and skilled. Certainly their clothes are more modern. Especially Beene who could have cut circles around Alaia.

And America did have its “invasion.” It’s literally called the “Battle of Versailles.”

America has had plenty of visionary designers:

Charles James, Claire McCardell, Halston, Geoffrey Beene, Bonnie Cashin, Rudi Gernreich, Isabel Toledo, James Galanos, Adrian, Giorgio di sant Angelo, Pauline Trigere, Kos van den Akker, Mary McFadden, Zoran, Shamask, Yeoh Lee, etc.

thank you for setting us straight in this matter.

 

[Lola701]

Now I'm thinking about it, America hasn't really produced any true visionaries in high fashion sphere. The ones who were unconventional (Tord Ford, Rick Owens, Thom Browne) had to build up a name in Europe. In the US, there's a luxury audience, but no high fashion audience.

Designers like YSL, Cardin or Courrèges couldn't have been based in America. Nor could designers like Alaïa, Mugler or Gaultier. The US fashion scene never had a "Japanese/British/Belgian Invasion" or a mass of old dead luxury houses to revive either.

Their labels don't seem to have the best workers either. I remember Peter Copping in an interview expressing frustration at how "rough" the work Oscar de la Renta's "ateliers" produced was compared to Nina Ricci's despite similar price points.

European luxury is rooted in a certain idea of creativity and quality. I would add that being daring and provocative is applaud in Europe.

In the US, luxury is more linked to a lifestyle that is lived by very conservative people. The mass can be afraid by too much creativity.

‘The greatest American designers like Charles James and Adrian never had brands in a proper sense and their work never influenced fashion in broad sense.

Halston was fantastic but it wasn’t as big in the 70’s as Chloe or YSL Rive Gauche.

If you think about Alaia for example, the real only luxury house created in the 80’s, he became bigger in the US first before being famous in France. His clothes were very provocative but there was a real sense of craftsmanship attached to his clothes. It’s insane when you look at his work that he used to dress countesses and rich ladies of the French high society. But he never sold a lifestyle like Halston even if his clothes were very much part of a lifestyle.

But I think it’s political in a way. America has always been the biggest market for French fashion (and luxury as a whole) but unfortunately I don’t think governments took fashion seriously. Fashion is so important in France in Italy because they are industries that had a real weight economically.
Money is taboo in France so there’s more hypocrisy in the way it is consume even if the approach is more conservative.

But I think that the ones who managed to merge the sense of luxury from France and the sense of lifestyle from Americans are the Italians.

But we are really talking about brands rather than pure talents.