Liz Smith Reporting on Tom Ford's Remarks Towards Yves Saint Laurent

[PrinceOfCats]

Strangely enough it looked indentical to the trash that [insert name of real designer at Gucci] was making. The link is Tom Ford.

 

[Spike413]

isn't this over yet?...tom is so bitter...i can't believe he's still taking swipes at YSL...

Actually, this is the first real swipe I've ever read about. In the past he's always been pretty diplomatic when discussing their relationship. I'm not saying he's right for saying the things he did but if he's wrong then Yves is just as guilty, if not more so for starting the mudslinging. And it's not as if what he said isn't true....Yves insults lots of designers, and he doesn't come off as the most pleasent and down to earth person. But as mikeijames said, who knows how old this quote is?

please, don't let this open another Tom Ford debate....haven't we had enough of them?

 

[mikeijames]

Strangely enough it looked indentical to the trash that [insert name of real designer at Gucci] was making. The link is Tom Ford.

well we can see from the first collections from john ray and alessandra facchinetti prove that the aesthetic ran deeper than just the head. it's easy to blame it all on tom, but it's not very realistic.

 

[PrinceOfCats]

Pilati's first collection looked like a straight take from the archives,whereas JR + AF's looked like Tom Ford all over again.. So I'll keep an open mind about YSL and a closed one about Gucci

 

[mikeijames]

Pilati's first collection looked like a straight take from the archives,whereas JR + AF's looked like Tom Ford all over again.. So I'll keep an open mind about YSL and a closed one about Gucci

i'm waiting with baited breath to see just how well this collection's received by the public. i've seen a couple of celebrities sport pilati's new stuff...i wish him success. i do however think that pilati's vision for ysl does not present the same glamour and eroticism owed to the label's name sake. tom ford apprached that idea from a different angle than pilati. i agree that what pilati did was true to the house, but i'm still skeptical about how successful his reign will be compared to tom ford's.

 

[lady grey]

tom

i wonder how long liz smith has kept that unused quotation in her slow-newsday file

tom was in new york city a week ago & he may have spoken to liz then?

I'm a gigantic fan of tom's gucci career & also of much of his YSL work.

It's not useful to compare tom to YSL.

tom's gucci career is justifiably world-famous and beloved by many in & out of the fashion world.

 

[kakaposh]

he's just lashing out because he knows his departure is what saint laurent wanted and that he was never really welcome there. bring back splendor to the label? He did a crap job of that. So glad he's gone.

uhhh now i know why u leashed at me on my new thread

 

[kakaposh]

tom was in new york city a week ago & he may have spoken to liz then?

I'm a gigantic fan of tom's gucci career & also of much of his YSL work.

It's not useful to compare tom to YSL.

tom's gucci career is justifiably world-famous and beloved by many in & out of the fashion world.

yea youre right ...i stand by him

 

[Meg]

I didn't 'leash' you. I informed you of the truth of the situation.

 

[kasper!]

Cleaining my tfs folder today and find this old thread....

I think Tom had his points. From the 90s Yves was just recycling his work. Clothes shown on the runway were pretty and but that's all, kinda souless....All the groundbreaking designs are from 60s and 70s.


Waiting for Lola's comment now..

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Cleaining my tfs folder today and find this old thread....

I think Tom had his points. From the 90s Yves was just recycling his work. Clothes shown on the runway were pretty and but that's all, kinda souless....All the groundbreaking designs are from 60s and 70s.


Waiting for Lola's comment now..

YSL was way past his prime and had become totally irrelevant but honestly, what did Tom expect? He fired YSL's chosen successors and installed himself! Obviously he was only ever going to be regarded with contempt by YSL.

 

[yslforever]

YSL was way past his prime and had become totally irrelevant but honestly, what did Tom expect? He fired YSL's chosen successors and installed himself! Obviously he was only ever going to be regarded with contempt by YSL.

And Hedi Slimane and Alber Elbaz proved YSL and PB were right, they were exceptionnal and influential designers at Lanvin and Dior Homme when Pilati or Fachinetti were assistants or stylists reaching their respective level of incompetence quite rapidly, just like Viard right now.

 

[blueorchid]

The YSL/Tom Ford drama always tickles me.

I still get a good laugh when I remember the letter Tom said he got from Yves, that went something like: "in 13 minutes on the runway you have destroyed 40 years of my career."

 

[LadyJunon]

The YSL/Tom Ford drama always tickles me.

I still get a good laugh when I remember the letter Tom said he got from Yves, that went something like: "in 13 minutes on the runway you have destroyed 40 years of my career."

MGC has done worse in less time.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

And Hedi Slimane and Alber Elbaz proved YSL and PB were right, they were exceptionnal and influential designers at Lanvin and Dior Homme when Pilati or Fachinetti were assistants or stylists reaching their respective level of incompetence quite rapidly, just like Viard right now.

I am not so negative in my assessment of Pilati. I think he is a wildly talented designer and I loved his collections for YSL. They just weren't very good YSL collections.

 

[Cocteau Stone]

YSL always seems to bring out some funny, petty dramas.

I mean there's those twitter rants from Hedi when he was there, and who can forget Pilati in the 'September Issue'. That was only small but the tension between Anna and Pilati over his lack of colour was priceless ("It's my moooooood"). YSL has a knack for bringing out the inner coddled child in many... I wonder what's on the cards for Vaccarello.

 

[yslforever]

YSL was born in drama, and incredibly difficult to work with, but most of his ire was directed at Pierre Bergé and his own studio team, but he was also extremely aware and respectful of the hierarchy and never ever raised the voice against people "below" him like seamstresses or courriers or factotums; he used to sent them countless supportives letters, flowers, gifts, drawings, or portrait of themselves. Often paid them all their wedding dresses and presents, hiring their children.
On a darker side, addictions came also very early in his career and from the 80s decided to live like an reclusive retired monk.
But still had a great strength of character and he could have mean petty words; "Ungaro, the first colourblind couturier", "Versace ? the prettier pimp of Milano" etc etc.
He thought he was the best with colours, and was particularly mean with what he used to call "monochromatic designers".

 

[Lola701]

Cleaining my tfs folder today and find this old thread....

I think Tom had his points. From the 90s Yves was just recycling his work. Clothes shown on the runway were pretty and but that's all, kinda souless....All the groundbreaking designs are from 60s and 70s.


Waiting for Lola's comment now..

I don’t think recycling his classics was necessarily the issue with Yves. It’s just that it felt « dusty » or from another era already compared to his contemporaries…Look at the work of Karl, Emanuel, Valentino at that time…
The reality was that Yves wasn’t already of that time. Everything was in a slow pace when there was a real energy in fashion.

That being said, Yves’s eveningwear, more precisely his draping was exceptional.

The YSL/Tom Ford drama always tickles me.

I still get a good laugh when I remember the letter Tom said he got from Yves, that went something like: "in 13 minutes on the runway you have destroyed 40 years of my career."

Tbh, I’ve always believed it was all Bergé. Yves struggled so much at that time and it was known that Pierre wrote everything for him. But Bergé was extremely petty…
The issue wasn’t about Elbaz because during the Gucci take over, Tom was invited at the Couture show, he even attended an Elbaz RTW show with Bergé. The first collection he did (resort 2001), he showed it to Yves and Bergé…
I think it was all a matter of ego. Tom & Dom had a plan, they were focused. They didn’t used gloves, there wasn’t any over-flattering of the Berge-YSL and I think De Sole criticized the way YSL was managed regarding the licences and stuff…

Bergé was petty: he used every opportunity to make everything hard for Ford in Paris. He was extremely connected in the Parisian scene so you can imagine…

But unfortunately it was just Tom’s moment so even when he organized special events at La Foundation, he had what loyal clients or people of the press who anyway weren’t invited at the shows…
But Betty Catroux attended every show of Tom, wore Tom’s clothes and remained friend with him weirdly.

That being said, I think Pierre Bergé was a fabulous creative director I would say. He was clever with taking Alber Elbaz from Guy Laroche and taking Hedi Slimane after his years with Jean Jacques Picard. The campaigns he directed for YSL in the late 90’s we’re fabulous and I’ve always felt like he was frustrated to be only seen as « the help » when he also had a creativity of his own. I don’t find the same kind of frustration with Valentino and Giancarlo Giammetti for example…

But maybe Tom’s take over was the best thing that has happened to Alber and Hedi. Under the wings of Berge, it would have been difficult for them to really express themselves as he would have always had some kind of imput in the house.


That Ford/YSL beef was so ridiculous but so entertaining at the time.

 

[Lola701]

And Hedi Slimane and Alber Elbaz proved YSL and PB were right, they were exceptionnal and influential designers at Lanvin and Dior Homme when Pilati or Fachinetti were assistants or stylists reaching their respective level of incompetence quite rapidly, just like Viard right now.

A bit unfair to compare Pilati or Fachinetti to Alber and Slimane. The circumstances weren’t the same. They were design directors, number two. Neither Alber or Slimane were number two…

Alber and Hedi had the opportunity to fulfill their vision from blank pages at houses destined for them. Stefano and Alessandra were working on high pressure in very turbulent environments.

I still think that Fachinetti was treated terribly by the people at Valentino. She had talent, an ambitious vision and something modern to offer.

 

[jeanclaude]

Tom´s work at YSL was underrated. He had a powerful vision, and he launched very interesting colllections during his tenure.

I specially love his intricated puzzle-like satin dresses and skirts.