Madonna scolds America

[*AndoraStar*]

I do, but it was her own fault she lasted that long. The fact that we've HAD a female Prime Minister and that we can again is what is being discussed. It was her own decisions that had it last that long and there isnt anything we can do about that. But the pride most Canadians have that a woman was even elected is still strong.

Actually darling.. she wasn't voted back in. It's a joke to even mention that she was actually a PM. I am well aware what is being discussed here, thank you. Of course we as in Canadian's are willing to elect a female..

 

[ShesElectric]

Actually darling.. she wasn't voted back in

Who said anything about her being voted back in?

However, it's sad that she was our first. That's a fact.

 

[Hipkitten]

Don't shoot the messenger. Regardless of your feelings toward Madonna - which couldn't be that strong considering you don't know her personally - she's right. And the glass ceiling doesn't end at the Presidency. Women are sorely underrepresented in every aspect of American government. Recent polls suggest that 92% of Americans believe the country is "ready" (whatever that means) for a female president. While 92% may sound like a lot, I want to know what the hell is wrong with the other 8%. Not only that, when considered along party lines, 91% of democrats would be willing to vote for a female president compared to only 68% of republicans. Americans talk a good game about equality, democracy, et. al. but in reality, American women still only make roughly 76 cents to a man's dollar (2004) and for women of color that percentage is even lower. As an American, I'm ashamed of these numbers and am outraged at the number of people I see trying to dismiss them.

References: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/politics/3671549.html

http://silverchips.mbhs.edu/inside.php?sid=6301

http://www.aflcio.org/issues/jobseconomy/women/equalpay/

 

[PrinceOfCats]

Without wanting to wave the French flag , there are around 55 female senators in France at present , the last female prime minister in France was Edith Cresson (1991 - that's more recent than the last time you had a female prime minister in most European countries) and a female president is just something that you would hardly find in the history of most countries in the world...But I do agree with you about the fact that sexism in politics is not confined to the U.S and is a world wide reality case...

I was taking France as an example, not suggesting that the rest of Europe is much better. 55 senators out of 300+ is still not very many. The evidence suggests that a lot of people 'aren't ready' for a woman in France, and everywhere else as you say...

 

[sonjanicky29]

I agree it is time for a woman president(and this is coming from an independent with conservative leanings)But,i would NEVER EVER vote for Hilary CLinton.I think she is a raving mad woman and you couldn't pay me to vote for her.Now Condolezza Rice(sp?)is someone i would vote for because i believe that she would be a much better president then the past 3 combined

Sonja

 

[northernsky]

she's right.

by saying women should lead the US? that's the same well-known sexist crap, only with another algrebaic sign IMO.

i agree with you that it should be considered wrong when people refuse to vote for someone because of his gender, but madonna just sounds like she's promoting the same thing.

 

[pointup]

I really don't think that Americans would vote for a woman president. I heard on the news (not sure where they were getting this info) that roughly only 50% of Americans would vote for their IDEAL candidate if they happened to be a woman. I hope that is a gross underestimate!

Haha I've heard some crazies say that that show with Geena Davis as woman president is liberal propoganda to convince america in to a female president!

but really...madonna: SHUT UP, go fake a british accent and ruin another religion.

 

[Hipkitten]

by saying women should lead the US? that's the same well-known sexist crap, only with another algrebaic sign IMO.

No. She's right in saying that it's about time we had a female president. But in my mind the discussion shouldn't stop there. It's about time that anyone who isn't a white male gets the presidency in the US. Obviously it comes down to who is best for the job; I wouldn't vote for a woman simply because she's a woman. Just as I would never vote only along "party lines." The bottom line is that there are still people who would not vote for a woman simply because of her XX status and that's just ignorant and wrong.

 

[Boluda]

She explains: "In Europe and Asia and elsewhere, women have ruled over millions;

????

really, where???

does madonna know something i dont?!

 

[nanker_phledge]

I was taking France as an example, not suggesting that the rest of Europe is much better. 55 senators out of 300+ is still not very many. The evidence suggests that a lot of people 'aren't ready' for a woman in France, and everywhere else as you say...

You were still wrong though about the facts ( by the way , 55 female senators still represent 16 % of the senators , which is 4 times more than the U.S have for instance, but I agree about the fact that we're still talking about a minority ) .Even though I know you were just taking France as an example, I was just correcting you, but mostly , France wouldn't be the first example I would have in mind to talk about sexism in politics in Europe . I disagree with you though concerning that line 'The evidence suggests that a lot of people 'aren't ready' for a woman in France', now I don't know how much you know about French politics , but there's someone called Ségolène Royal which is currently being considred as one of the most important potential candidates for the presidential elections of 2007...So I wouldn't be too sure about what you're saying .

 

[PrinceOfCats]

You were still wrong though about the facts

But with all due respect I actually wasn't. France had one female prime minister a decade ago, mainly put forward by Mitterand if I remember rightly, who didn't even last a full term. France has very few female senators. France has not elected a female president yet. I don't see a leading right-wing female candidate: are you saying that the millions of right wing voters don't constitute a lot of people?

There may be countries with worse records on gender in politics, but I'm not a politics student, I don't think being familiar with every country in Europe is requisite to giving an example.

 

[nanker_phledge]

You said : when the last time you had female senators in France ? Correct ? Well there are female senators at present if I recall well. One point false.

Second : When was the last time you had a female prime minister ? Answer : Well more recently than in most European countries .

Three : You said : The evidence suggests that a lot of people are not ready for a woman in France. Answer : The other popular figure as a presidential candidate along with Nicolas Sarkozy is a woman .

If I recall well Italy never had a female prime minister and 8 % of the senators are female (France has twice more) , that's just an example , I'm sure there are other.

 

[Harumi]

????

really, where???

does madonna know something i dont?!

I believe she is referring to Empresses and Queens and powerful mistresses. Which is not a particularly good example since those persons where not elected and came through power only by killing their husband (ex, Catherine the Great-Russia), because they were no men left in the line of succession (ex, Queen Victoria-UK) or by being mistresses to powerful men (ex, Diane de Poitier-France).
In any case, the societies they 'reigned' on would never have chose a Queen over a King if given the choice.

Beside, I agree with whoever said it's sexist crap. America doesn't need a female president. America, like any country, needs a decent, brilliant, charismatic leader, whoever his or her gender. I couldn't care less if there is no female president in 1000 years, as long as the person the the oval office is great. Which is not the case now.

 

[nanker_phledge]

????

really, where???

does madonna know something i dont?!

Well there have been female head of state in ancient history just as much as in recent history in Finland , Latvia, India ,Ireland, Indonesia , Philippines, etc ...

 

[nanker_phledge]

I believe she is referring to Empresses and Queens and powerful mistresses. Which is not a particularly good example since those persons where not elected and came through power only by killing their husband (ex, Catherine the Great-Russia), because they were no men left in the line of succession (ex, Queen Victoria-UK) or by being mistresses to powerful men (ex, Diane de Poitier-France).
In any case, the societies they 'reigned' on would never have chose a Queen over a King if given the choice.

Beside, I agree with whoever said it's sexist crap. America doesn't need a female president. America, like any country, needs a decent, brilliant, charismatic leader, whoever his or her gender. I couldn't care less if there is no female president in 1000 years, as long as the person the the oval office is great. Which is not the case now.

I agree with you about the fact that America doesn't need a female president. Just someone competent.

But as I said in my previous post , there have been women who were elected in Asia and Europe who have been head of state in recent history (Corazon Aquino , president of the Philippines , Mary Robinson in Ireland,Chandrika Kumaratunga in Sri Lanka , Tarja Halonen in Finland, etc...) ...

 

[PrinceOfCats]

You said : when the last time you had female senators in France ? Correct ? Well there are female senators at present if I recall well. One point false.

No, I said 'when was the last time you saw', a colloquial phrase expressing the opinion that one does not see female senators very often in France. Which is true. Even more true until quite recently.

Second : When was the last time you had a female prime minister ? Answer : Well more recently than in most European countries .

And? Did I say that wasn't so... something is not good simply because it's better than something else. That is illogical.

Three : You said : The evidence suggests that a lot of people are not ready for a woman in France. Answer : The other popular figure as a presidential candidate along with Nicolas Sarkozy is a woman .

I think you possibly need to reconsider the phrase 'a lot'. If you want to take it to the extreme, 22% of the population have a good opinion of M. Le Pen, whose views on women are well known. That's a lot of people.

I frankly don't think it's true to say I was 'false', I didn't pick the most extreme example which is no sin, and my comments might have been slightly misleading. I'm sure Madonna has never thought about any of this.

 

[Harumi]

But as I said in my previous post , there have been women who were elected in Asia and Europe who have been head of state in recent history (Corazon Aquino , president of the Philippines , Mary Robinson in Ireland,Chandrika Kumaratunga in Sri Lanka , Tarja Halonen in Finland, etc...) ...

Yeah I know, but Madonna said 1000 years and it's the 1000 year thing which seemed to puzzle the poster I was responding to.
Wasn't talking about modern or contemporary history.

 

[nanker_phledge]

No, I said 'when was the last time you saw', a colloquial phrase expressing the opinion that one does not see female senators very often in France. Which is true. Even more true until quite recently.

I took it literally , that's where it was wrong according to me.

And? Did I say that wasn't so... something is not good simply because it's better than something else. That is illogical.

There were more than ten examples of European countries you could have given.

I think you possibly need to reconsider the phrase 'a lot'. If you want to take it to the extreme, 22% of the population have a good opinion of M. Le Pen, whose views on women are well known. That's a lot of people.

That still represents a minority and I was talking about the forthcoming elections.

 

[PrinceOfCats]

I took it literally , that's where it was wrong according to me.





There were more than ten examples of European countries you could have given.





That still represents a minority and I was talking about the forthcoming elections.

Okay, sorry.

 

[Harumi]

^I read you message before you deleted it nanker_phledge.
The 1000 years thing was my mind going fruitloop. First I read the 'women have ruled over millions' bit like it she said 'millions years'. Then in my answer I reduced it to 1000 years.
Just ignore my posts. I need rest.