Phoebe Philo - Designer

[Drusilla_]

Isn't her Chloe dress were on every magazine and everywhere in store that try to do the same dress? I still remember that~

yeah, scoring top magazine covers, dressing the most buzzed-about celebrities, being one of the most-copied (by other designers and the high street) labels and the benchmark to which every subsequent Chloé CD has always been compared (and mostly fallen short) - and we're supposed to believe her era was "irrelevant" because someone whose education on fashion sounds like it came from watching self-appointed fashion historian tiktoks made by people who have no memory of the time, says so. What's the next goalpost to move, I wonder?

at least Phoebe has had two separate and distinct aesthetics do well under her direction. Can anyone say that of Hedi, successful as he is?

 

[FashionFanatico]

i am very much looking forward to september - just to open this thread, lean back and observe a battle royale going on between of all of your deep thoughts and opinions, guys. What a feast!

 

[Lola701]

why do people do this with phoebe. She only had one hit run. Shes Tom Ford status as far as Im concerned. Im waiting for her 2nd hit run before we can really act like shes important.

hedi is on his 3rd hit run. Who wouldnt want to be hedi.

its obvious to me the delay is because - like many designers - when challenged with coming up with her own look she is unable to. This is why Lagerfeld Gallery never really popped because Karls own look was vague and undefined. Same thing that happened to Tom really.


The email update thing is giving the executives forced some UX person to slap that together before the end of July because everyone is noticing how long this is taking.

One run is enough to solidify your status as an important designer. Phoebe had that with Celine…
Nobody is expecting her to change the course of fashion again.

Karl was lucky because he worked through many decades but he solidified his reputation with his success at Chanel. He was already an important designer with Chloe…

I actually think that designers would rather be Tom Ford than Hedi Slimane because the level of compromise his position involve nowadays isn’t sustainable. Case in point, she build her own fashion house…

Building your home means being in control of your narrative. Eventually, by the time she will have to compromise, she might leave fashion, just like Tom did. Because this is the reality of the industry, the bigger the brand is, the higher the expectations are.

I understand the success of Hedi, I can understand the strategy behind his success but for me, in fashion, as an already established designer, there are only two viable careers at some point: Karl or Azzedine.

Unfortunately, nobody will ever have the same level of freedom as Karl. Because he made the rules for this kind of success. I think a lot of designers could however follow Azzedine’s footsteps. A designer who never spoke to the world but only to his crowd.

We saw the fragility of his brand when he spoke to the world…
Funny enough, he experienced his biggest commercial success when he was less visible.

 

[LadyJunon]

One run is enough to solidify your status as an important designer. Phoebe had that with Celine…
Nobody is expecting her to change the course of fashion again.

Karl was lucky because he worked through many decades but he solidified his reputation with his success at Chanel. He was already an important designer with Chloe…

I actually think that designers would rather be Tom Ford than Hedi Slimane because the level of compromise his position involve nowadays isn’t sustainable. Case in point, she build her own fashion house…

Building your home means being in control of your narrative. Eventually, by the time she will have to compromise, she might leave fashion, just like Tom did. Because this is the reality of the industry, the bigger the brand is, the higher the expectations are.

I understand the success of Hedi, I can understand the strategy behind his success but for me, in fashion, as an already established designer, there are only two viable careers at some point: Karl or Azzedine.

Unfortunately, nobody will ever have the same level of freedom as Karl. Because he made the rules for this kind of success. I think a lot of designers could however follow Azzedine’s footsteps. A designer who never spoke to the world but only to his crowd.

We saw the fragility of his brand when he spoke to the world…
Funny enough, he experienced his biggest commercial success when he was less visible.

I'd rather be an Alaïa to be honest, or at most, a Margiela.

 

[Kennnnn]

Phoebe Philo's Chloé RTW was certainly not irrelevant. If you visited the boutiques during that period, there were many very desirable pieces that appealed to a diverse audience. And they sold very well.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Why is there a debate over whether or not Phoebe's Chloe was significant? It was hugely significant. It's not even a conversation.

 

[Drusilla_]

Why is there a debate over whether or not Phoebe's Chloe was significant? It was hugely significant. It's not even a conversation.

no idea, but there are some very confidently ignorant statements I've been seeing on TFS lately - someone saying Prada had no house codes beyond 'wrinkly blouses', now aspersions cast on the influence of Phoebe (of all the designers to go after). Probably coming from people who genuinely think that Roberto Cavalli and Blumarine were the labels/looks fashion people wanted to wear through the 00s, which, kudos to those label's marketing departments but still false.

Chloes most famous looks from that 00s era were Stella - the banana t shirt for example or those crystal t shirts.

Those banana prints are from S/S 2004 i.e. very firmly Phoebe era (2001-06, for the ignorant, who are most definitely present in this thread). So much for "Chloe's most famous looks from the 00s were all Stella".

I acknowledge my own fault in letting that slip in my initial reply.

And it's as Mutterlein said - there is no debate. She's easily one of the most significant designers of the 21st century, and the resale prices for literally anything with her name attached even while she was still at Céline, speaks volumes about just how many people also hold that opinion.

 

[tricotineacetat]

If anything at all, I think there is a paradox there that her Chloe and Celine collections don't provide much of a red thread from which you can read a clear identity of herself as a designer with an easily recognizable body-of-work that lives up to her reputation - In her early 30ies she was the Chloe girl and as she matured, had children and was living a different life, she personified the new Celine woman. All of this feels like a perfectly reasonable arch, one that's relatable to many women, but it's not as clear-cut as Jil Sander being the woman who will forever be remembered for the pantsuit and white shirt, in both her personal style and her most recognizable contribution to fashion. The attribute of the caricature had been thrown around a lot recently but compared to Jil, could you really break down Phoebe Philo's persona and body-of-work to such a degree?

The general narrative of Phoebe Philo being the high-priestess of minimalist womenswear design feels unbefitting when we consider how many years of her work and Celine collections were about that, where others contributed decades to this genre of design.

 

[KoV]

Those banana prints are from S/S 2004 i.e. very firmly Phoebe era (2001-06, for the ignorant, who are most definitely present in this thread). So much for "Chloe's most famous looks from the 00s were all Stella".

I acknowledge my own fault in letting that slip in my initial reply.

I assumed the meant the tees from S/S 2001. They were cheeky but kinda hideous. Still, I think they had their moment. “Keep your bananas off my melons”

 

[MulletProof]

no idea, but there are some very confidently ignorant statements I've been seeing on TFS lately - someone saying Prada had no house codes beyond 'wrinkly blouses', now aspersions cast on the influence of Phoebe (of all the designers to go after). Probably coming from people who genuinely think that Roberto Cavalli and Blumarine were the labels/looks fashion people wanted to wear through the 00s, which, kudos to those label's marketing departments but still false.

To be honest I'm a bit impressed but also a little concerned on the revisionism ignited by the mix of superficial interest on "archival" pieces and summaries instead of research. I also read some months ago something like 'imagine people in 15 years praising Yohji Yamamoto', as if the attention he gets now is just 2023 hype . It's a really poor (but arrogant?) take on history where historical value is assigned ONLY if you can see it within your own sociocultural context.

For perspective, it is as wild (and possible!) as someone in 2046 being like 'yeah, around 2023, Ludovic was all the rage, Demna wasn't anyone and he was actually stealing a lot of designs from Ludovic but Ludovic's crochet jackets really embodied a time.. and you're probably just a Demna fan if you think it was any different'.

I do think the 15 minutes Stella's work at Chloé is experiencing now, more than 20 years later, is actually nice, she's been consistent with her label for so long and more than proved herself as a hard-worker since then. I loved her work as a kid, I thought it was fun and the stuff I'd for sure wear when I'd 'grow up' lmao. Looking back though and judging it next to what was happening then, it was really just disposable junk that expires after wearing it once (not unlike, what, Y/Project now?), but fashion's never been against disposable junk so I do think the 'spell' Karl cast on her tenure, by saying she got the job just for being Paul's daughter, definitely stuck with editors, it just wasn't that 'cool' to praise her work. Reports of the season mattered then and she was hardly featured in them. I'm not even a Phoebe-phile (I'm honestly not really a 'fan' of anyone in general) but Phoebe gave Chloé the stability, credibility, relevancy and authority Stella couldn't, and Phoebe took that with her. Chloé is a headless chicken since she left. Also, I just can't believe I even need to type this but people DO remember the state of Céline before Phoebe, right?, it was something like Akris, just this meaningless house that's somehow always.. there for inexplicable reasons and with the absolute worst record of walking snoozefests (Kors, Menichetti). Phoebe basically restored that thing burned to the ground from the ground. Hedi walked into something tidied up, stable and 'cool' and took it from there, same ol' thing he does. Taking Céline from the limbo it was in, making it desirable and pushing it to the top is a whole other beast and that's all Phoebe, which is what makes her upcoming collection even more anticipated. The delay is probably logistical, not because 'she's unable to come up with her own look'.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Guys, just ignore all that nonsense.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

To be honest I'm a bit impressed but also a little concerned on the revisionism ignited by the mix of superficial interest on "archival" pieces and summaries instead of research. I also read some months ago something like 'imagine people in 15 years praising Yohji Yamamoto', as if the attention he gets now is just 2023 hype . It's a really poor (but arrogant?) take on history where historical value is assigned ONLY if you can see it within your own sociocultural context.

For perspective, it is as wild (and possible!) as someone in 2046 being like 'yeah, around 2023, Ludovic was all the rage, Demna wasn't anyone and he was actually stealing a lot of designs from Ludovic but Ludovic's crochet jackets really embodied a time.. and you're probably just a Demna fan if you think it was any different'.

I do think the 15 minutes Stella's work at Chloé is experiencing now, more than 20 years later, is actually nice, she's been consistent with her label for so long and more than proved herself as a hard-worker since then. I loved her work as a kid, I thought it was fun and the stuff I'd for sure wear when I'd 'grow up' lmao. Looking back though and judging it next to what was happening then, it was really just disposable junk that expires after wearing it once (not unlike, what, Y/Project now?), but fashion's never been against disposable junk so I do think the 'spell' Karl cast on her tenure, by saying she got the job just for being Paul's daughter, definitely stuck with editors, it just wasn't that 'cool' to praise her work. Reports of the season mattered then and she was hardly featured in them. I'm not even a Phoebe-phile (I'm honestly not really a 'fan' of anyone in general) but Phoebe gave Chloé the stability, credibility, relevancy and authority Stella couldn't, and Phoebe took that with her. Chloé is a headless chicken since she left. Also, I just can't believe I even need to type this but people DO remember the state of Céline before Phoebe, right?, it was something like Akris, just this meaningless house that's somehow always.. there for inexplicable reasons and with the absolute worst record of walking snoozefests (Kors, Menichetti). Phoebe basically restored that thing burned to the ground from the ground. Hedi walked into something tidied up, stable and 'cool' and took it from there, same ol' thing he does. Taking Céline from the limbo it was in, making it desirable and pushing it to the top is a whole other beast and that's all Phoebe, which is what makes her upcoming collection even more anticipated. The delay is probably logistical, not because 'she's unable to come up with her own look'.

From what I understand the delay was from her being very unsure, being very, very demanding, and buckling from the intense pressure.

 

[jeanclaude]

(i-scmp.com)

 

[Blanche DuBois]

Its not discusable... Phoebe brought a fresh air with her chloe collections.
I remember spring 2002, Kylie minogue wore a fucsia top to her clip in her eyes... Then i specially recommend spring summer 2003...lovely layers and pasteles... Then s/s2004 high waisted white jeans 70s vibe... Banana prints... Also jessica miller was huge then and was in every campaign. Remember embroidery jeans at fall 2003??? Tiger head in a Jean was in every magazine, she brought the "boots over jeans" trend again!!

And spring 2005 was the best for me... Those dresses!!! She did continúe it in fall 05/06 putting chunky wool coats over them. It was very chloe to dress with a vintage slipery dress... Suede boots and a big coat.

Sorry... I cant remember Who said it was only for her bags
..
No dear... Phoebe was a whole era... And i grew up living it! ♥️

 

[Lola701]

I wasn’t the biggest fan of her Chloe personally but you can’t deny that she always had a connection with a modern woman’s desire. I liked her first collection for Chloe and the baby doll dresses she did when she was pregnant.

I think Phoebe understand the complexity of a woman’s life that’s why her work can appeal to different types of women without them having to be bourgeoises to subscribe to it.

She makes clothes to work with, to live it. It’s creative but it never loose it purpose. Me personally, I love her clothes for that. The designer clothes I buy are meant to be worn, not to perform.

While she is a complete designer, I love that she is not one note. I realized that she didn’t made that many romantic dresses at Celine. She wasn’t really making « eveningwear », it wasn’t Redcarpet friendly. When you think about the lifestyle of rich clients who drives the luxury world, they needs their gowns or special eveningwear pieces and she didn’t really made them…However, Philo was always down for an extravagant fur coat!

 

[Mathewthew]

From what I understand the delay was from her being very unsure, being very, very demanding, and buckling from the intense pressure.

I'm sure she is under extreme pressure. Under the economy right now, not a lots of people can afford an expensive shirt and understand the luxury of nice fabrics ( I'm not sure her price point, but I don't think it's accessible.) I'm wondering would her price point like The Row??~

 

[Drusilla_]

I'm sure she is under extreme pressure. Under the economy right now, not a lots of people can afford an expensive shirt and understand the luxury of nice fabrics ( I'm not sure her price point, but I don't think it's accessible.) I'm wondering would her price point like The Row??~

if people are willing to fork up for The Row or the various in-the-vein-of labels that gained attention after Phoebe's departure, they'll fork up for Phoebe as long as the clothes/accessories work. "Quiet luxury" still hasn't quieted down as a trend.

 

[Thefrenchy]

Very curious on how she'll present this. Quite amusing that she ended up going online-only to kick off her namesake brand knowing how reluctant she was at Celine when it comes to everything related to digital. That being said, she went from reluctantly going online to creating a digital visual identity that was as strong as anything else she did for Celine. Many forget how much of a change the Celine e-shop was in comparison to other brands. Hope she will make a change again on that front.

I do wonder how all this will fair in today's industry where the lane she built and left is now crowded. Everyone references her for everything from fashion to campaigns. Of course, everyone always prefers the original to the copy; but how much of it will actually feel new. Will we give in for the sake of nostalgia, or will she make us feel like she's taking us into a new era? Either way, everyone who likes what she does will be satisfied. I echo the sentiment regarding the price point. I recently found the receipt of a leather / linen cabas I had gotten at the Celine Paris store in 2011, and was shocked to see the price. 620 EUR. Yup, no typo here. Six hundred and twenty euros. For a Celine bag. How time flies, paying 3K for a bag has become the norm, ha! Fair pricing truly is the one piece of nostalgia we're never getting back...

Side note, but I was surprised to be told a few days ago that they're still hiring... at key positions...

 

[Mathewthew]

Isn't she suppose to launch in September ?

 

[Lola701]

Isn't she suppose to launch in September ?

We are still in September… She has 9 days left.
I hope she releases it either Sunday or Monday…I can’t imagine her releasing it in the middle of PFW and take attention from any LVMH brand.