Prada : What Went Wrong?

[gazebo]

I'm fascinated with this topic right now.

How could this brand go from top-notch, influencing everybody and being copied by everyone to practically irrelevant, from confident to desperate, from being very lucrative to having financial hardships in a very short time span?

When exactly was the turning point?
Why did it happen?
Could this have been prevented?

I think we can all learn something from a discussion as it is pretty much unfolding before our eyes.

 

[Creative]

Good thread.

It's a very interesting topic indeed. I quote myself:

^Hard question... I think it could be that at the beggining they were genuinely cool, but then they started to feel some pressure on their shoulders and tried to not let people down... Began to curl the curl. And that ended with the freshness and started to bore. Putting 100 new girls in their campaigns and in their shows, changing so so so much, going for gimmicks instead of good fashion... People were sort of fed up. Then sales started to drop. And they weren't in a strong position anymore and couldn't remain being 'cool' and trying hard. So they went back to the core values in a desperate attempt to bring consumers and relevance back... But I think it was too late. What they did wasn't in tune with the times. They were designers with lots of hype (Phoebe, NG at Vuitton, Hedi...) that snatched Prada's 'cool' spot. It sort of faded...

And I think they started loosing relevance around 2012. The 'car' collection was a hit but I think that was the moment when people got saturated by Prada. New things were coming from designers and Prada didn't feel fresh anymore... It was there but it was sort of tiring. S/S 2014, F/W 14... Those were beyond forgettable collections.

I think that they could do nothing to prevent it... Fashion is all about cicles. And Prada cicle lasted lots of time! She defined fashion in 2000 and the hype lasted till 2010 more or less.

Then, as I said, they started to take themselves too seriously. I think castings were a reflection of how Prada was being managed at the time. It was a total madness. Every two minutes going for the new. What one day was 'in', the next one was 'out'. It was EXHAUSTING. It was too much to handle...

Then, Phoebe came in. Everything was much more serene. She was developing a style, brought a new aesthetic and started being the reference... And Prada felt like a circus. It wasn't in tune with l'air du temps.

Maybe in some years they get back the relevance, but I think it will be hard. Right now we are used to changes all the time, and Prada won't have a huge makeover.

Also, I think she should've brought some fresh air... Alter the formula (Meisel should've been replaced a while ago I think).

 

[squilliam]

I think what's happening with prada is similar to what's happening to brands like Dolce & Gabbana...they found a gimmick that works and have stuck with it. Prada is known for being a little quirky, and it seems Miuccia just latched on to that and keeps trying to make ugly/pretty quirky stuff because that's supposedly the brand's image. Also the styling doesn't help either. She's in a rut like a lot of other designers, thinking 'well this one idea works so I'll just keep using it over and over and over again' just like D&G, valentino, elie saab, and Sarah Burton are doing. And since the critics are all afraid to say anything, and some people care more about the label than the design, it works...and the cycle of churning out bad stuff continues on and on

 

[Lola701]

First thing that i want to mention is relate to the stores.
The disconnect between what we sees on the runway and what end-up in the stores is HUGE!
What people are prasing about Prada are accomplishments made in the 80's and an aesthetic that was very 90's.

People are saying that Prada is an intellectual brand only because Miuccia herself is an intellectual but Prada is quite different. The clothes (when they are produced) are well made, daring and powerful. Their shoes are perfect.

Next: almost a decade without an It-Bag. The nylon bags looks very dated (apart from the backpacks) but they are everywhere in every Prada shops/cornersz. Their last It-Bag was the fringe bag from spring 2007. The inside bag was silly. I think it's a flop but their two new bags are good.

Then, as Creative said, they took themselves too seriously. I don't remember the last time i read a bad review of a Prada show because in the fashion world, when you don't like a Prada show, is that you don't understand it.
IMO 2012 was the last great year for Prada. Their resort, spring, fall and menswear collections in 2012 were perfect. Simply styled, not overtly intellectual or complicated, womanly and chic. The menswear was powerful and desirable.
Resort 2012 was and is still for me the epitome of the Prada style today.

For the final part, i will say that their brand strategy is weird. Prada is loved by many (including me) because it offers real fashion. Like it or not, even if something is wrong with them, they are still doing Fashion.
BUT, Prada is also a quite "absent" brand in today's world of social media. They don't have any "fashion-relevant" ambassador like Chanel for example, their spokespersons choices are weird. They are not doing events or engaging people with things related to the brand.
They have that foundation but it's intellectual and most of the people who are buying a brand like Prada are more interested in the history of the brand, the BTS of the collection than a museum.

Meisel is not a problem. They need a new stylist: Rizzo is talented but what he is doing add a confusion and can make us question the actual involvement of Miuccia.
They need to produce what they put on the runway. It's silly and almost annoying every season to not be able to buy the exact version of an outfit you saw on a runway just because they didn't produced it.

I've heard that Net A Porter will start to sell Prada clothes...I'm waiting.

 

[Creative]

It is indeed obvious that this brand is not as relevant as it was in the past... People don't talk about Prada anymore in design or magazine studios, people don't want to buy Prada and lowcost chains don't even copy their garments anymore... There's a sort of surfeit.

Five years ago a Prada campaign thread would have 20+ pages, these days... no one cares. It's just such a boring brand that tries hard.

And I also agree about Rizzo. They should get someone fresh. He always does the same: overstyling. I'm tired of him. And, as I said, I also think a new graphic direction is very much needed (a new photographer...).

And it's not a cool brand anymore. A cool woman would go to Loewe, Céline... Prada belongs to another era. I think it has desirabilty issues. I recently went into a Prada shop and I thought I was in 2009... And the clothes were so unappealing and basic. The accesories beyond cheap. The whole experience was... MEH.

 

[dodencebt]

I'd like to contribute with a little thing that my Texan aunt (a Sandra-Bullock-in-The-Blind-Side hairdresser who hangs out in those circles) told me three years ago: "Me and all my friends have Prada bags - everyone's obsessed with that brand over here". I think that speaks volumes.

 

[anlabe32]

BUT, Prada is also a quite "absent" brand in today's world of social media. They don't have any "fashion-relevant" ambassador like Chanel for example, their spokespersons choices are weird. They are not doing events or engaging people with things related to the brand.

From a marketing point-of-view this seems silly indeed, but I actually respect Prada for not going along with this Instagram mess other brands are engaging in (*cough* Balmain *cough* Givenchy). Their ambassadors are the real talented and real beautiful people. They might be under the radar (for now) but they do embody what the brand stands for. The Mia's, Stacey, in the past Lea.

I would hate Prada if they would ever choose someone like the Kardashians, Hadids, Lily-Rose Depp or Taylor Swift as their ambassador.

I think Prada's red carpet strategy is also part of the problem. Since they don't show gowns on the runways, the dresses you see on the red carpet are those silly (but often lovely) gowns that don't have much to do with the runway garments. I'm able to recognize them as Prada but in general I think people aren't.

 

[gazebo]

I found this piece from early 2015 that has many interesting points.

http://www.racked.com/2015/1/8/7562101/prada-sales-decline

Apparently, they produce at least some of their bags in China and hide the label that says so deep inside the bag where it's very hard to find.

Also I learned that there was a fiasco where they used very high quality faux-leather or pleather for the lining of some bags and where very shady about it.

When I think Prada, I think: 1. top quality leather 2. "Made in Italy". After all they started as a leather goods company and that's their bread and butter.

As a luxury brand that charges luxury prices that is disastrous.
I have no idea what were they thinking, that no one will find out??
Once you lose that trust with the consumer - you're pretty much dead.

I guess when people found out, many of them just stopped buying Prada altogether.

 

[Lola701]

@anlabe32: I get what you said and i agree with the Balmain-mess and not using some people like the Kardashians but when i think about the ultimate fashion house (for me at least), Chanel, they have their regular stylish girls like Diane Kruger, Caroline de Maigret who are stylish, talented and socially active in terms of RedCarpets.
Prada is above all a luxury RTW brand and it's the type of brand you want to see people wearing on events, parties or candids.
The only time we are seeing Prada RTW in "real" situations is during fashion week or when Anna Wintour/Carine Roitfeld wears it.

@Dodencebt: People are still buying Prada but you don't see them being frenzy about it. Girls and women are collecting Chanel, Celine, Hermes and even Fendi bags but you don't hear about people collecting Prada bags.
They have their classic Saffiano bag which like the bag every business woman have in their closet.
Prada bags are really classic and they don't have their signature-shape bag like the 2:55 or the peekaboo to experiment with.
They are really about Saffiano, Nylon or sometimes seasonal prints on Saffiano and Nylon...

I think that this little crisis can be good for the brand. Now, they have the opportunity to change things, to experiment and do something new.
They have a new perfume, two new bags and hopefully new strategies to push the brand and change that "decline".

 

[VogueDisciple93]

Prada has a few major issues right now:

1. The brand is redefined too often. The constant and complete change of image every season is too much for consumers, by the time shoppers are caught up and ready to shop a new collection is in stores with a different direction. The shift each season is too drastic, the brand is unable to form a solid brand identity.

2. Lack of "It" accessories. It has been over a decade since Prada had a true it bag with the nylon collection and about half a decade since they had a hit accessory with shoes and sunglasses from the Spring 2011 collection. I am sure the Galleria Bag does well but not great. For almost any luxury brand there HAS to be a successful and robust accessory line to carry the brand and Prada does not have that right now.

3. They do not have a strong enough ecommerce presence; apparel is absent from their own online store and only a few stockists sell a few pieces of the collection online. It is 2016 it is just sheer foolish for a brand of Prada's size and visibility to lack a proper online store.

4. They need better brand ambassadors and PR. I am by no means saying they have to sell their souls to the devil and give into the insta girls, but they need more vibrant and younger famous faces for the brand. As of now the brand is surviving on its clout alone but it is failing to bring in new customers. It is a very old image right now and that has to change.

 

[dodencebt]

@Lola701, I don't think I was clear with what I wrote. My point was that Prada has lost its branding and that women with lifestyles seemingly disconnected with what is shown on the Prada runways are buying their bags. We all know it's a problem when the "wrong" customer starts buying a certain brand; it alienates the rest who wouldn't like to be associated with certain types of women.

 

[gossiping]

i agree with those who say about the disconnect between the show and store

the store is full of boring leather shoes and accessories that i walk straight past every time..thing is, they're great quality but once you have one pair it lasts you forever so what is the incentive to go back to the store?

 

[dior_couture1245]

All very interesting and valid points from everyone here. It really is interesting to see such a rapid and explosive identity crisis at Prada.

I feel like Spring/Summer 2011 (the Monkey/Banana collection) set a course that they stayed on for far too long and they're still riding on that wave. Even though each subsequent collection initially reads as a 180* from the previous season, Prada is still pushing the same QUIRKY and CARTOONY aesthetic. There's no rest for the eyes! The hair is wild, the sunglasses are wild, the earrings are wild, the layers are wild, the socks are wild, the multiple bags are wild, the shoes are wild...and it's all on one look down the runway! It exhausted itself very quickly and yet they haven't moved on from that same formula.

I don't believe that Prada has lost it for good - she's too much of a thinker to be counted out of the game, that's for sure. She's far too interesting. What I see the problem is is that what has always made Prada so unique is something that is just simply not valued currently in the fashion climate of today. Flashy, over-designed, over-styled, gimmicky, oversized, childish and juvenile, clashing fashion is the game most designers are playing today, and Prada just looks like she's trying to keep up and figure out how to play that game in her way, but it just doesn't suit her. I respect that she's trying in the sense of putting out the effort to remain relevant and keep up and continue to challenge herself and explore new territory, but it's just proving to be an odd fit.

And in regards to Prada's social media presence, again, I think it's just another symptom of the times not being conducive to Prada's DNA...social media is inherently a pretty unintelligent platform, and Prada is intelligent. It is hard to navigate Instagram and how that's going to represent you as a brand when the principles of that platform are anything but discreet, stylish or interesting - all the things you stand for. The brand either needs to figure out a unique way of presenting itself on social media - instead of playing the game - or just bow out. If Celine can skip Instagram, so can Prada, if they so chose to.

Also - when it comes to the disconnect of what's on the runway and what's in stores - I've actually always found it to be really interesting to check out the Prada stores and see how they style the seasonal runway pieces in a much more realistic and approachable way. The more outrageous the styling is on the catwalk, the more I appreciate the in-store merchandising. Say - a runway embellished and fringed skirt, but now on the sales floor paired with a classic white shirt, maybe halfway unbuttoned, paired with a simple black nylon parka, some classic Prada ribbed stockings and a smart ankle strap stiletto. I always wonder why the look can't be shown that way on the runway? It's a potent look and very stylish and maybe people are buying less and less Prada because the runway looks are styled in such an unrelatable manner that there's simply no desirability factor, and therefor no reason to pop into the Prada shop when the collection hits the stores.

 

[ultramarine]

Very interesting points. Some quite valid I especially liked the ones mentioning

ONE Lack of an "it" bag. Which is very very true and they are pushing for it to happen.

TWO Almost complete absence from Social Media, which should be reversed. (Id throw some online stockists here as well)

Another thing many people forget is the business aspect of the brand. Remember it recently went public and has invested heavily in Asia, Asia is basically the most important market right now and its been tricky for brands to adapt to it. Prada is a relative new comer and its not as famous as others and I do believe their identity crisis has cost them a lot of money.

I am not saying they should start splashing their logo on everything but they need to make themselves a bit more known and take a direction and stick to it.

 

[Creative]

I think the social media is not THAT importand and I'm actually glad they don't use it that much. That's refreshing and cool.

And the ambassadors thing... I hate the idea and I don't think that's important either. Look at Céline or even Loewe. They don't have ambassadors à la Chanel and I love it. Although they are less important brands.

I think it's just a cicle. You can't be at the top of the game your entire life.

 

[Pricciao]

Another thing many people forget is the business aspect of the brand. Remember it recently went public and has invested heavily in Asia, Asia is basically the most important market right now and its been tricky for brands to adapt to it. Prada is a relative new comer and its not as famous as others and I do believe their identity crisis has cost them a lot of money.

It's not. About seven years ago and before, a Prada bag is a must have to Japanese influenced countries. Prada Nappa or Prada Baguette was that hit, right after a Louis Vuitton Neverfull. Prada is not a new comer to the luxury market in Asia. The obstacle they are facing here to me it feels certainly connected to the absence of hype, Coach, Michael Kors and lots of Korean brands divide that market and leave nothing but a tiny bone to them.

 

[Lola701]

I think the social media is not THAT importand and I'm actually glad they don't use it that much. That's refreshing and cool.

And the ambassadors thing... I hate the idea and I don't think that's important either. Look at Céline or even Loewe. They don't have ambassadors à la Chanel and I love it. Although they are less important brands.

I think it's just a cicle. You can't be at the top of the game your entire life.

Yes but Celine and Loewe are only about accessories and clothes. Pus, they are mostly about daywear.
Loewe may have a perfume business but JWA doesn't seem to have control over that so, it's almost irrelevant to their rebranding.

Prada care about Redcarpet, they care about bloggers, they care about celebrities. So, why not have celebrities that are relevant for your house to showcase your designs instead of doing redcarpets that are not only unsuccessful but also irrelevant for your clientele.

For the top 5 brands, it count.

Or, they need to make their clothes more accessible to the mass. Being on MrPorter and Net a Porter can help their business.

We have already Prada (from previous seasons) on Yoox so whynot?

You cannot be at the top of the game forever but you can maintain a high level for a long time.

I hate to bring back Chanel everytime but since 1983, they have been at the top. Even with the failures, they have maintain their reputation by taking risk. Prada is a risk-taker in fashion so, it's a pity that they are so traditional in terms of business.

 

[popstylist]

I think it down to the pricing structure of Prada that recently change a few years. Prada price structure has been raised so no more entry price point products now available like LV or Gucci to cash it those new affluent consumer (they want to be the new Hermes).

For the case of Chanel, even though Chanel price point on clothing and leather goods is very high but the bottom line is Chanel has cosmetic and fragrance that so accessible and cash in many new affluent customers. Chanel no.5 alone make million of millions to Chanel business.

But Prada? Apart from expensive handbags and avant-grade clothes they has no successful fragrance to cash in at all. So when Avant-grade clothes not appeal enough then they are in big trouble.

I think those are the bottom line that make Prada not successful at the moment. They distance themselves from the masses for the high fashion but they forget that the bottom line is the middle class and affluent customers are the one that are the true luxury cash customers. What they need now is to find the way to balance everything like Chanel that manage to maintain the exclusivity while be able to cash in from the masses.

PS. I'm not that good in English but I hope I get the point I want to say across.

 

[gazebo]

^I got your points. Thanks for your input

 

[Creative]

I hate to bring back Chanel everytime but since 1983, they have been at the top. Even with the failures, they have maintain their reputation by taking risk. Prada is a risk-taker in fashion so, it's a pity that they are so traditional in terms of business.

That is the only example... The rest of the houses have all had their ups and downs. And could you please explain what do you mean when you say they take risks? I think their fashion is very normal as well as their campaigns... But it's like Coca Cola, so big and iconic that never fades away...