Racial Diversity In Modeling

[mellowdrama]

^I don't know, but maybe if you see hatred as your basic motivation, it's easier to see others as having that same motivation behind their actions? Seeing the mote in others' eyes, missing the beam in one's own and such?

 

[writergal28]

I agree that Vogue sucks now.

Too true. And I never buy it.

Maybe Naomi just hates Tyra and has something against her personally? I know I do.

Hasn't Nami ALWAYS had issues with Tyra?

 

[funkyflamingo]

Hasn't Nami ALWAYS had issues with Tyra?

I thought the same thing about Naomi. I had seen that interview on Tyra Banks. I think Naomi has a point though.

 

[iluvjeisa]

I agree. there are so many beautiful black girls out there I dont understand why I never see any. and good point about the magazines. so true. vogue is a "white essence". I dont understand how some people can't see that or maybe they dont want to see that.

If it was I don't think they'd have Pat M or ALT there, would they? That said, I agree with the notion that they should to bring in more non-white models. But as it is, I don't think the modeling agencies are doing a great job of finding them, which of course is because they're not in demand.

So, when we're talking about Vogue, what about Bazaar? When American Vogue had more black models on the cover, and also inside the magazine, (back in the 70s) Bazaar didn't have a single one. And they haven't gotten much better either.

 

[Assembler]

I think one of the biggest reasons for continued racial tension in North America is because of the segregaton of "culture". Magazines for specific groups, music for specific groups ets. It reinforces that these groups are seperated communities without the desire to include others.

I'm a white woman. I can't complain that I don't see a Nordic beauty in a magazine that has already said it wants nothing to do with me because of my skin colour (ie. it's specifically targetted towards a particular ethnic background). I'm pretty sure just saying this people will say because of my colour i DON'T have the problems they've faced, and why not? I'm a first generation Canadian. My parents had to struggle, we were under the poverty limit for most of my life, my family was wracked by war, my "homeland" was either conquered by one power or another until we finally had independence in this century. I can't and never will afford a $1500 purse even though I'm an engineer, with a master's degree. I work in a company where our European based CEO said to my Canadian based boss "why are you sending a girl to this client, don't you realize this is an important client" even though I am the top performer in our company, and THAT is why they were sending me. I could use the empowering messages in magazines that don't want me as a reader because I'm white.

I support diversity, but I do NOT support reverse-exclusion as a bandage for diversity. I don't read Vogue anymore because I find it irrelevant. I can find much more up to date information on the internet anyway. While Naomi is right that there isn't enough diversity in Vogue, creating something that would exclude white women isn't a solution. I used to spend tons of money on a variety of magazines and now barely pick one up unless it's at the dentist, because what I find on TFS is so much more useful. And it comes from people I can't see the colour of, and where they can't see my colour. They dont' care if i'm 150lbs (I am) or 120 lbs (I wish) because they're never going to see me anyway (though it would be fun). I kind of wish I could just get the glossy versions of all the ad campaigns and editorials without all the filler (it's funny how I used to think of the ads as fillers) and without the covers (which are usually hugely uninspiring and the greatest source of controversy).

Thank goodness for TFS.
(I hope I don't come across more inflamatory than I meant to. Sometimes I don't have the greatest sensitivity, and though I edited this, I may have missed something)

 

[leyla m.]

beautiful post^

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ I have learned a lot about cultural differences that I didn't know before as I've dated and worked with people of other cultures, races, and ethnicities. One thing I found out was that differences I thought were really all about class ran much deeper, in the culture. As kimair noted, there are issues that are specific to particular racial, ethnic, and gender groups. Women's health is a great example. I believe most studies are still done on adult men, and then they extrapolate for women and children based on weight So targeting health information specifically to women could not be more relevant. We are, btw, significantly more complex than men systemically, for what I hope are obvious reasons. Really they should be doing the studies on us and extrapolating to men, but I'll give you one guess as to why that's not happening ...

So we have some real differences as humans physically and genetically, but more as a result of environmental and social factors ... which doesn't make the second set of differences any less real. I would love to see a day when we have a more color-blind society, and racial and ethnic background becomes more of a talking point than a determining factor in your life. I hope I do live that long, and that the world changes quickly. But we are not there yet ... not by a long shot. Until we are, I think publications that target population segments are entirely appropriate. When they are no longer appropriate, there will no longer be a market for them.

In the case of publications that target large heterogeneous segments ... take the US for example ... we are about 75% white (much less in some states, like mine for example), 25% black and brown. Not counting Asians here, just looking at the big segments. That's one in four people who isn't "white." That's a really significant portion of the population, and getting bigger all the time. If you're "white" and aren't prepared to be a minority, you better not move to my state

So let's say you're still a Vogue reader the day the US becomes majority black & brown. How would you feel if suddenly the magazine switched from a face like yours on 98% of the covers, to one face like yours every few years? Do you hear me now?

 

[Rochas]

Such an intense thread...

 

[mint condish]

creating something that would exclude white women isn't a solution.

Who said they wanted to exclude white women?

 

[electricladyland]

Hmmm I wonder in this case if the formation of an all black school in Ireland is "reverse exclusion"... To know what I mean click here.

By SHAWN POGATCHNIK, Associated Press Writer2 hours, 4 minutes ago

Almost all the children who could not find elementary school places in a Dublin suburb this year were black, the government said Monday, highlighting Ireland's problems integrating its increasingly diverse population.
The children will attend a new, all-black school, a prospect that educators called disheartening.
About 90 children could not find school places in the north Dublin suburb of Balbriggan , a town of more than 10,000 people with two elementary schools. Local educators called a meeting over the weekend for parents struggling to find places and said they were shocked to see only black children.
"That overwhelmed me. I'm not quite sure what to make of it. I just find it extremely concerning," said Gerard Kelly, principal of a school with a mixture of black and white students in the nearby town of Swords.
The parents at Saturday's meeting in a Balbriggan hotel said they had tried to get their children into local schools but were told that all places had to be reserved by February.
Almost all of the children are Irish-born and thus Irish citizens, under a law that existed until 2004.
Some parents questioned why white families who had moved this year into the town had managed to overcome the registration deadlines to get their children into schools.
Some also complained that Ireland's school system was discriminating against them on the basis of religion. About 98 percent of schools are run by the Roman Catholic Church, and the law permits them to discriminate on the basis of whether a prospective student has a certificate confirming they were baptized into the faith. Some of the African applicants were Muslim, members of evangelical Protestant denominations or of no religious creed.
Education Minister Mary Hanafin said the problems reflected bad planning amid rapid population growth, not racist attitudes at existing schools. She vowed to get the new school, which will take students aged 4-12, integrated with white students as soon as possible.
"I would not like to see a situation developing where it is an all-black school, so it's something to keep an eye on for next year's enrollments," Hanafin said.
Kelly said some parents, both locals and immigrants, "felt forced or coerced to have their child baptised to get a place in their local Catholic school."
More than 25,000 Africans have settled in Ireland since the mid-1990s. Most arrived as asylum seekers, and many took advantage of Ireland's law — unique in Europe — of granting citizenship to parents of any Irish-born child. Voters toughened that law in a 2004 referendum.

 

[MulletProof]

^seems like they're getting inspiration from Nebraska.

 

[electricladyland]

^^ Really? what happened in Nebraska. Not that I should be a bit surprised.

 

[MulletProof]

click.

I'm not sure how crappy that website is, but it's the same information everywhere so I didn't get too picky with google.

 

[electricladyland]

wow, thanks! The issue of segregation in education would take us down a whole other (probably more important) road. It's known that American schools are more segregated today than they were after Brown v. Board, 1954.

 

[softgrey]

i don't think it is appropriate to take naomi's little rant about vogue as an opportunity/excuse to discuss racism in all its forms here...

the topic of this thread is specifically about vogue and the fashion industry..
which is already on the edge of our policies...

random schools in ireland are seriously off topic electricladyland...
which you seem to know...so i don't know why you posted that dear...

 

[electricladyland]

^^ I posted it in response to the comment about reverse discrimination or "reverse exclusion" and due to the fact that so many people who post here seem to think that the idea that racism exists is some kind of outdated notion. I did think that it could lead the discussion astray, but the issue of racism in fashion does not exist in a vacuum. It has a whole social and historical context in which it was situated and I intended to illustrate that. Don't worry though, sweetheart, I will not venture to lead this thread astray again.

 

[softgrey]

 

[Bel]

Cammpell has a very self-absorbed way of saying it, but she's telling the truth.

 

[kahlilg]

Love your post electricladyland!

 

[J'ador-DioR]

Supermodels launch anti-racism protest



[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]· Discrimination in fashion world 'worst since 60s'
· Monthly rallies planned to put pressure on industry[/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Ed Pilkington in New York
Saturday September 15, 2007
The Guardian

[/FONT]
Several of the world's top black supermodels, including Naomi Campbell, Iman, Liya Kebede and Tyson Beckford, yesterday launched a campaign against race discrimination in the fashion industry - which they say is at its worst since the 1960s.

About 70 leading models, designers, agents and fashion show producers gathered at a New York hotel in the first of a series of rallies designed to put pressure on the industry to face up to the problem.

Ms Campbell, who flew in from London for the meeting, repeated her recent claim that she could no longer get on to the cover of British Vogue. "Do I still want to be on the cover of British Vogue? Absolutely I do. It's not because I don't sell, because I do sell - more than many of my white counterparts."

The south London-born supermodel said there had been times in her career when she had been so exhausted she had wanted to stop modelling.

She said she had no desire for sympathy or to blame anybody, but said she had had to resort to extraordinary measures to overcome resistance.
She revealed that she had forced her way on to the cover of French Vogue only after the designer Yves Saint Laurent had threatened to break off relations with the magazine unless they did so.

The event was organised by Bethann Hardison, a model from the 1970s who formed her own agency that helped launch the careers of Ms Campbell and Mr Beckford, one of the highest paid male supermodels. "In the past decade the black image has been reduced to a category - she is not even to be seen; she has become invisible," Ms Hardison said.

The New York Times noted this week that several of the New York fashion week shows, including Calvin Klein, had featured only white models.
Several speakers at yesterday's event said the industry had become progressively closed to African-Americans through open discrimination that would be unthinkable in any other US industry.
Claude Grunitzky, editor of the magazine Trace, said that when he invited Somalia-born Iman to guest edit a recent edition with the cover line "black girls rule", a major advertiser had pulled out at the last minute on the grounds that the phrase was racist.

Iman added that she had found it difficult to persuade black models to pose for the cover. "I understood that - I didn't want to be labelled a black model when I started, but now I do celebrate it and I see the difference."
Ivan Bart, vice-president of IMG models, who arranged for Ethiopian-born Liya Kebede to become the first black face for Estée Lauder, said: "The rules have become stricter. When I first started in the business, a beautiful model of any colour could be on the cover."
The event was conceived as the first of a monthly series of meetings. The participants are planning to lobby the Council of Fashion Designers of America, and there was brief discussion of the possibility of bringing a class action law suit against the most blatant discriminators.

guardian.co.uk