Raf Simons and Hedi Slimane - rivals or brothers in innovation?

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Twin Peaks
Why Hedi Slimane and Raf Simons are not rivals but brothers in innovation
By Markus Ebner


Fashion loves a rivalry. Unforgettable are the days when Yves Saint Laurent and Karl Lagerfeld used to battle it out to be fashion's number one in Paris. Journalist Alicia Drake spun a whole book out of this circumstance called The Beautiful Fall. It is still a must-read on the goings-on of fashion in the French capital in the sixties and seventies. At the moment, the international fashion press seems hell-bent on creating the same type of rivalry between Raf Simons and Hedi Slimane.

This idea has surfaced in articles on the nomination of both designers to their new jobs at Dior and YSL, respectively. The key one was penned in April by the influential critic Suzy Menkes of the International Herald Tribune, who got the succession at Saint Laurent wrong one year ago when she predicted Simons going to YSL. Cathy Horyn, the fashion critic from IHT stable mate The New York Times and a longtime Simons champion, also shares the idea of a battle between the two. To enforce the rivalry point, Menkes even suggests in her story that Slimane took his lead from Simons at the end of the nineties, when both were working on their signature slick tailoring silhouette. And yet, in her show reviews of Dior Homme in the first half of the last decade, she always celebrated Slimane as an originator.

Now everyone from Le Monde's magazine M in France to the blogs are jumping on the rivalry idea. I would like to make a point that Hedi Slimane and Raf Simons are not rivals but are united by being the leaders of a new generation of designers. They are much more ambassadors of a new approach to fashion, of seeing the bigger picture versus one dress or a piece of fabric. Sure, it's tempting and headline-making to pit them against each other now that they're helming two of Paris' most prestigious houses, but it does them a disservice.

First of all, they were friends at the start of their careers and would have a glass of wine together in Paris every now and then. From the very beginning, Slimane has stood for a stylized reality. When I moved back to Berlin from New York to start Achtung, he had already mined the best of the German capital's visual arsenal and published a book with Steidl called Berlin. The book featured fantastic photos of young punks and wasted youth all in black-and-white. At the time, Slimane would go to music and nightclubs to find his models for Dior Homme. All of Berlin talked about these famous casting sessions and most kids and young male models hoped to be chosen. Meanwhile, Raf Simons was finding a lot of inspiration in Berlin. He even named his first company Detlef after a character from the teen drug movie Wir Kinder vom Bahnhof Zoo. So these designers are informed by the same cultural signposts but have a different approach in filtering them.

Both are members of the postmodern movement, a generation that grew up just before the Internet revolution. But they're still young enough to be comfortable finding inspiration in a myriad of cultural interests that they source from the Web. Let's not forget, Saint Laurent had to get on a plane to go to Studio 54 and see what was happening there.

The most obvious thing they have in common is that both Simons and Slimane started in menswear and are 44 years old. I have been going to their shows since the beginning of their careers. To say that one has copied or followed the other seems wrong. In 1999, when I was fashion director of Details, Slimane was still a low-profile designer. For a short article we did on him, we sent the local WWD staff photographer rather than some superstar lensman to his studio.

Simons was not even on the radar of the American men's press during my time at Details, and so when I went for a studio visit to Antwerp, it was Raf who picked me up from the train station in his beat-up Mercedes station wagon. He gave me a tour of his city with stops at the Ann Demeulemeester store. He was very approachable and down-to-earth and part of the Antwerp community.

Another thing the two men have in common is that they can be very sensitive to criticism by people whose opinion matters to them. Whereas Karl Lagerfeld is a thick-skinned pro who can laugh off a bad article, Slimane and Simons can be rather thin-skinned when it comes to reviews.

Far from rivals then, they are fellow travelers linked now more than ever by a shared career timeline. The new millennium was the moment they both burst onto the scene, and both have preferred to use teenagers plucked from the street versus real models for their shows. This helped them to get an unfiltered and immediate response to their creations, as these young kids would only put something on if they were really into it, unlike a professional model who is used to keeping his mouth shut no matter how garish the outfit. Hence, whoever slashed the sleeve from a jacket first is not really the question here. Both designers mine youth culture for energy and inspiration to fuel their creative process.

If they are in any competition, it's against the fashion establishment, not each other. Slimane elevated his shows to live concert experiences by creating an entire world around a défilé that encompassed his high-gloss minimalist invites, custom-made soundtracks by Europe's leading DJs and bands, rock hero light shows, and culturally diverse show spaces—from the Palais de Tokyo to Frank Gehry's one Paris building. Simons went to the suburbs of Paris to show in defunct soundstages and school basements, staging his agitprop message shows like mock antiglobalization riots. All of this was light-years away from the gilded chairs of a couture salon.

I believe that the upcoming Dior Haute Couture and Saint Laurent shows are most of all a testament to the fashion industry turning a new page and giving its best positions to designers who are not cut from the same old cloth. Rather, they are informed by modern pop culture, the zeitgeist, and most importantly, their own lives and not old-fashioned ideals. And talking about rivalries: Perhaps the real one is at the New York Times company between Suzy Menkes and Cathy Horyn, as to who is the more scoop-producing fashion critic.

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style.com
 
The only rivalry here is going to be among fashion journalists and ignorant fashionistas.. Who will tear them a bigger one first.
 
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I think this is stupid to even assume a rivalry. They are two different people, both innovative, who have been hired by two iconic houses with completely different styles. What relevant things are there to compare?
 
Simons had already endeared himself to a kind of warm minimalism, french 50s flavored, by the time he was axed. I don't think there's going to be much of a 'story' in his first few times up at bat for Dior.

YSL on the other hand has been Drama since Elbaz was earning bad reviews for his efforts there. Slimane's trajectory is already more interesting, returning to a brand he left once Ford got involved to continue not only the mens but also inject that special je ne sais into womens. I'm beginning to think this house is poison, not only for Berge's inability to wish it well but also because so many other designers like Prada and Lanvin do YSL so much better at this point. The house either needs a real master of the cloth or someone whose personal vision is seductive enough to strong arm the press into his worldview. The stars may align for Slimane, who is more certainly the latter ...but only if he truly understands that Saint Laurent, and the world he designed for, is long gone.
 
Battle of the Champions
By SUZY MENKES
Published: September 26, 2012

PARIS — The fight between Christian Dior and Yves Saint Laurent — or, more accurately, the clash of two new titanic designers — is the story of this fashion season.

On Friday, Raf Simons, 44, steps up for the second round at Dior, after a good start in the haute couture season. Now the Belgian designer has to make a strong thrust forward in ready-to-wear for summer 2013.

At Saint Laurent Paris (where Hedi Slimane, also 44, has removed “Yves” from the brand’s title), the designer is taking over a legendary house that will always be in the shadow of its founder, who died in 2008.

The fact that the two maisons are owned by rival luxury conglomerates — LVMH Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton for Dior and PPR for YSL — only adds to the sense that this in an epic contest.

The designers each take on a legendary heritage and a mature brand where they literally have to fill big shoes: The accessories, including footwear and handbags, have been the cash cows for the last decade, far more profitable than clothing.

Each house is a legend — yet financially lags behind another big brand within its group: Louis Vuitton at Dior and Gucci for Saint Laurent.

History also finds links that intertwine the two mighty Paris couture houses. Yves Saint Laurent started his career at Dior. He took over the house in 1957 at age 21 when Christian Dior died of a heart attack.

Mr. Slimane started at Saint Laurent. He was chosen by Pierre Bergé, Mr. Saint Laurent’s partner, to work on the men’s wear line in 1996, where he first developed the pencil-slim silhouette. It was made famous during his seven-year tenure at Dior Homme, and has dominated men’s wear in the new millennium.

The really significant thing about this season’s new arrivals and the clash of the champions is that both designers were formed in men’s wear. The Raf Simons look grew slowly from his own label’s beginnings in Antwerp in 1995 — drawing, like Mr. Slimane, from street culture and disaffected youth. It was only in 2005, when he was appointed to the Jil Sander label, that Mr. Simons first tackled women’s design, although his vision grew in strength until he left early this year.

Mr. Slimane has never officially designed for women, although his sleek male tailoring has dressed the famous of both sexes, including Nicole Kidman. Since he left Dior Homme five years ago to concentrate on his passion for photography, he has not been part of the fashion calendar.

Does the return of Jil Sander to her eponymous label this season and the hiring by the Ermenegildo Zegna men’s wear group of the former YSL designer Stefano Pilati suggest that androgyny is back in favor?

Not since the 1980s have there been leading designers so focused on tailoring. It would theoretically be possible, if unlikely, for either of the new protagonists at Dior and Saint Laurent to come up with a “girly” look. As both houses are guarding their doors with the secrecy usually reserved for a royal wedding dress, no hints have been given about what will seen on the runway this week at Dior or Monday at YSL.

Is this such a stand off after all, given that both designers are linked to men’s wear; both work as fashion purists, rather than decorators; and both are fascinated with youth culture and contemporary art?

Fashion has always thrived on the clash of titanic opposites. A famous sketch by Jean Cocteau in 1926 shows an elaborate outfit from Paul Poiret slinking off as the clean silhouette of Coco Chanel dominates the foreground.

Not much later, Mademoiselle Chanel was trading insults with Elsa Schiaparelli, whose whimsical and witty designs were the antithesis of the Coco graphic rigor.

The Christian Dior florid New Look, giving women back their curves and flounces after the war years, was pitted against the lofty sculptures of Balenciaga.

In more recent times, this ying and yang produced in the 1980s Azzedine Alaïa’s curvaceous vision of the sensual woman set against the flat-plane clothes of the Japanese school, led by Rei Kawakubo of Comme des Garçons.

At the same time, in Italy, Giorgio Armani, a revolutionary men’s wear designer who developed a linear women’s look, went up against Gianni Versace. The two designers had such clearly defined images that it was clean, pale beige against vivid, chaotic color, straight line tailoring versus curvy clothes, and flat shoes facing off stilettoes.

In this new Paris season, which is seeing the revival of the Schiaparelli label as part of the Tod’s empire, will fashion history repeat itself?

It could be that the most dramatic standoff will not be between Dior and Saint Laurent, where both designers are graphic in spirit. The great protagonist might be Karl Lagerfeld at Chanel, who has to prove what that label stands for in the face of fashion’s new wave of modernism.

Let the joy and the jousting begin!
nytimes.com
 
I think the battle is only btw LVMH and PPR, build up by the Fashion media ...
Media and business' matters...

Zzzzzz

Karl vs Yves - Yves died
John vs Alexander - John has become a shadow, Alex killed himself
Raf vs Hedi - who will win ?

So nice and appropriate to carry on these kind of fake fights - that at the end of the day brings more pressure over the designers' shoulders ! Bravo Suzy ! And all the media ...
 
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^ So true.

I'm surprised that people that have been exposed to the course of their careers firsthand are the first to bring out rivalry. They're parallel worlds.. completely different rhythm, style, beliefs, aesthetic..

Hedi's been through this before, and I guess Raf too to some degree but he's the one I wish would just get back to his own label and wouldn't had immersed himself into this side of fashion , I get it's every designers' dream but it also feels like any creative person's nightmare..
 
sorry BUT Raf did everything before Hedi Slimane

-slick silhouette
-street casting
-pictures of young weird skinny boys
-rock culture in fashion
 
is this a joke?
of course i understand that this #PFW all eyes are on Hedi & Raf
but they are so very different,
they represent a different style school,
no comparison what_so_ever
 
this dredged up rivalry based on nothing but somebody's fashion fantasy for drama. it's existed for well over a decade now and it was tired back then and it's even more tired now even in spite of the fact that both coincidentally are making big debuts this week. i just find these types of stories so redundant in today's world....like people really still are that devoted to a single designer. everybody wears things from different talents...it's irrelevant.

and btw,as diorhomme said(and one you can guarantee wouldn't make it up with that handle),no one knew about hedi till he started designing at YSL Homme in 99...raf simons' whole style we knew about since 96 and 97,such as his notorious 'black palms' collection. as far as youth and attitude,raf along with his former girlfriend,veronique branquinho,were the first. as far as how that progressed,i've always found that the emotional resonance in raf's work to be much different....less shallow. to me hedi's work left me feeling cold....like he was just satisfying the parade of hipsters and fashion crowds.
 
I think a comparison is valid given that the two designers were at point actually uncomfortable with each other. As one poster already mentioned, Simons had made many innovations in menswear that Slimane eventually adapted and then received more acclaim for. This is something even Simons has admitted to though he also clarified, in an interview from ages ago, that they settled whatever beef they had with each other.

Neither is it difficult to consider two maverick designers and the impact they'll each have as they both take on two of the most cherished fashion houses in the whole history of the industry, at the same time.

Do I think they have it out for each other's throats? Hardly. The days of the designer rivalries, with one ego publicly **** talking the other seem long gone. But you can be sure their bosses are closely eyeing the other as competition. The luxury market is only so big and both houses are vying to win some of the hearts and minds that have since been occupied by Phoebe Philo and Celine.

Rivalry or no rivalry, the stakes are high. Both designers are likely being paid record high fees and their respective conglomorates are expecting to get their money's worth. While largely independent of anyone but themselves and their respective teams, either their success or their failure will be judged against the other. Both designers will have to perform and should one falter it would only add insult to injury if the other succeeds.

Anyways, don't feel bad for Slimane or Simons, they knew exactly what they were getting themselves into when they signed their contracts and it's only good for the brand that the media elevates them as designers to such legendary heights. It's half the reason why LVMH and PPR hired them. And besides, fashion doesn't have very many heroes these days.
 
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I don't think I remember Simons & Slimane having a beef. On the contrary, I have this interview from V mag (Summer '00) where they interview each other and I don't get any negative vibes. I could be wrong though.
 
I don't think I remember Simons & Slimane having a beef. On the contrary, I have this interview from V mag (Summer '00) where they interview each other and I don't get any negative vibes. I could be wrong though.

Well, I remember an interview with Simons from maybe around 2005 or 2006, maybe it was in I-D? Essentially the interviewer asked Simons about his rivalry with Slimane and he said something to tune of "Yes, I actually ran into him at an art fair and we worked it out."
 
Oh well, perhaps they did. If anyone's interested, here is the interview
 
Good. Someone finally called out the fashion media on this sensationalism. Fashioning a story from the coincidental parallels between Raf and Hedi's respective debuts was too easy for them too pass up. I hope both designers found the mental space necessary to produce their best work. I just want to see fantastic clothes.
 
Oh well, perhaps they did. If anyone's interested, here is the interview

That interview is quite a treasure! To have both of them at transitional ages, quite a while ago! So much has changed since then...
 
The comparison is banal, although they are considered alike, they aren't, Hedi is grunge and urban, Raf is classic and stream lined.

I find the comparison quite laughable too, since Hedi has never shown a womenswear collection, when we only have his Dior Homme offerings as a comparison when they are still considerably different.

I think it is merely a ploy for excitement but I think we are all pretty much excited for both shows to see what they both do, it's like watching a game of poker in terms of that they both seem to be against one another but in fact they're not.

I was pleased by Raf's first couture and wasn't at all surprised by it's classic minimalism, I think we'll see Minimalism from them both, but in very different aspects and in very different ways, but we will soon see.
 
True a not it sure spice up Fashion Week. A little myth wouldn't hurt anyone. Especially when you are as good as these two. But I must admit, Raf is always one step ahead!
 

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