Rapper Akon in trouble for simulated r*pe of a minor on stage

[xmodel citizen]

I don't think dancing is the problem either. I've danced more than a tad bit suggestively many times before but that's because I have fun and enjoy what I'm doing. No one is degrading me or forcing me to do anything because I choose to grind against my friends. It bothers me when anytime a female makes a choice, she's automatically being degraded. Says who? Last time I checked we all had a choice. If you want to act like an idiot, it's your choice. Maybe if we had more personal responsibilty instead of blaming everyone for everyone else's mistakes, incidents like this could be handled with more maturity.

Girls are either prudes or mindless sex things. Why does it always have to be either or? Females need to look within themselves before blaming society. It's not society's fault when you act like an idiot. When you have inner strength and internal convictions, a couple of videos will not influence your decisions. I enjoy rap music and anything provacative, but I CHOOSE not to have sex. People don't degrade me because I don't allow them to. Being a strong woman involves more than conservative clothing and strict moral boundaries.

 

[eternitygoddess]

^I don't think ALL girls fall into those two categories.

 

[xmodel citizen]

^ I know, I'm saying that's what the general perception is. You either have to be wild, crazy and sl*tty or completely prudish and boring. It's the whole virgin/wh*re complex everyone seems to have.

 

[Harumi]

OK, I warn you this is going to be a rant.

5) Just because she was dressed like a sl*t, it does not mean that she is one. The issue with her being 15 is NOT a physical one. The majority of girls are ready to have sex and children at the age of 12, sometimes younger. It's the mental issue that worries people. So for all these people who berate this girl for having two tattooes (which may or may not be real) and dressing in skimpy clothes, for a start a lot of 15 girls are impressionable and naive. The media is largely to blame with their constant barrage of 'sexy' women in music videos, films and magazines. Secondly, she lives in a hot country and clubs are hot too so I don't see why she would wear an eskimo suit. Thirdly, she most likely wanted to dress like the other girls in the club. Of course she has some accountability but a lot of 15 year olds don't think the way a 25-30 year old does, they don't have that level of experience, hormones are high and the peer pressure is on.

I agree with a lot of your observations in the above paragraph. Sexual maturity is indeed a question of emotional maturity more than a question of age (since girls are pretty much fit for sex right after childhood).
However, you assume than this emotional maturity is only the appendage of adults. I disagree. I already stated my opinion on the subject in the Whales rider actress' thread. Basically, it is different for every women. Some reach this mature state very early, other late into adulthood.
In this particular case, I don't see how you can judge the girl's maturity just by a video (I haven't seen the video BTW, because I don't like seeing people I deem ugly having sex, simulated or otherwise -same reason why I don't watch p*rn).
But this is not the real issue at hand. The real issue is censure. Here I disagree with your points. Censure is always the WORST answer. It never improve any situation. It is irrelevant whether kids know Akon, or Eminen. That should not influence their music nor lyrics. If artists start tailoring their craft to suit their public or parents' associations, it's the end of Art. As worthless as Akon is, he should not be censored. Banning Akon's songs is not going to make misogyny go away, just like banning Mein Kempf has not made anti-Semites go away.
However, there are law against hate speech. Instead of censuring him, the smart move would be to let him make his disks and then sue him for hate speech against women. I am sure there is enough material to build a case here.

So many people here are assuming that rappers have the monopoly of hate and violence against women. HELLO! Women have always been persecuted and vilified. What do you think feminists have been fighting against for the biggest part of the last century?
Even when people where all polite, and well-dressed and White (since I can't help discerning some racist undertones in some posts), women where not much better treated. If anything, in the age of Hip-hop, women have more rights and power than ever.

So, while I don't defend this scum bag, I don't see why this sad pointless little story is made out to be so symbolic or meaningfully. It's just a dirty piece of trivia. Nothing more. And those who dismiss an entire musical genre because of things like that only display there ignorance and prejudide, I think.
Jazz is originally about sex. Most lyrics of ealy jazz song were bordering on the p*rn*gr*ph*c. Should Jazz be dismissed as worthless? Should I burn my Rolling Stones CDs because of all the crappy rock 'artists' that polute my radio?

There's something seriously wrong with our culture when it's forbidden to make reference to a woman having an orgasm in a happy, joyful poppy song, yet it's perfectly OK to have some weasel loser tell us all about the selfish, demeaning sex he feels he's entitled to.

You would not believe the number of supposedly grown-up men who are scared s***less of women's sexuality.

 

[Gypsy_Doll]

When I, a perfectly respectable, modestly dressed, mature woman gets rubbed up against in public or grabbed at, it's because of morons like Akon perpetuating and celebrating the idea that because I possess breasts and a vagina, I am somehow less deserving of basic respect.

Well put.

 

[VainJane]

I wouldn't say it was rebelliousness, but rather Bible stories which taught us that life has consequences. And, my, were we so very eager for consequences. A certain boldness comes with faith, I think.;>

Ah, very interesting point Mellow

 

[Anastasia]

Quick clarification - I don't consider Akon solely responsible for any societal ills. He has a lot of company, unfortunately. But he's in the headlines now, and thus an easy target for the lazy like myself

 

[misssakura]

But this is not the real issue at hand. The real issue is censure. Here I disagree with your points. Censure is always the WORST answer. It never improve any situation. It is irrelevant whether kids know Akon, or Eminen. That should not influence their music nor lyrics. If artists start tailoring their craft to suit their public or parents' associations, it's the end of Art.

I never said anybody should be censored - merely that I don't think it's acceptable for record labels and the media to push these talentless opportunists into the spotlight, making millions and promoting the idea that it's okay to objectify women. I think it's a certain level of responsibility on behalf of the powers that be - however it won't change because these people make a lot of money off the public's ignorance and stupidity. So the only thing that can change is the general level of intelligence. I don't see that happening for a while, which makes me really sad.

I don't see Akon to be art. Far from it. It's the same problem I encounter every day with photography - some people take a photograph of a vagina. They call it "art" and it's impossible to censor them because they claim it's a repression of their rights and artistic freedom. However I know that they have no artistic talent, they're merely exploiting a category of 'art' which is hard to define, taking the easy route to popularity. So what is the problem, should nude photography be banned? Of course not. Nude photography can be done exceptionally well. It can be done tastefully and with intelligence.

The category of music that Akon falls into CAN be done well and it can be done tastefully. He does neither. What can we do? As long as women enable Akon then he'll continue to thrive. I'm not even sure if it's a question of what these women want, merely a route that has been presented to them.

I do think it's tragic that women fought so hard in the 20th century just to get basic rights to exist as people and not objects. I see a trend where this is being eroded.

 

[eternitygoddess]

I find this incident quite amusing.

Both of them are hos.

End of story.

 

[Harumi]

I never said anybody should be censored - merely that I don't think it's acceptable for record labels and the media to push these talentless opportunists into the spotlight, making millions and promoting the idea that it's okay to objectify women.

It is akin to censure.

I don't see Akon to be art. Far from it.

I am sorry but Akon is an artist. He produces music which is listened to by a public. That makes him an artist. I believe there is this misconception that art needs to be good. Absolutely not. Art can be total crap, litterally (see [SIZE=-1]Piero Manzoni). As long as there is an artistic intent it's Art, imo. The only censors should be the public. They, we, are the one who should distinguish between good Art and bad Art.[/SIZE]

It's the same problem I encounter every day with photography - some people take a photograph of a vagina. They call it "art" and it's impossible to censor them because they claim it's a repression of their rights and artistic freedom.

Gustav Courbet encountered the same criticism when he drew 'L'origine du Monde', which is now in the second most prestigious museum in Paris. Do you think he doesn't qualify as an artist? What about Helmut Newton? Araki?

Don't get me wrong, I share your view that Akon is a worthless piece of trash, but I disagree with taking a moralistic approach to artistic production. That is, I don't think radio should stop broadcasting Akon because he has rubbish moral values, but because he is a rubbish artist. However, since the opposite view is shared my millions of his fans, he isn't going anywhere. At this point of his career the only way to make him forcibly go away would be censure, and to that I oppose.
The popularity and success of mediocre people (Paris Hilton, Akon, Perez Hilton, etc.), is just the symptom of a deeper malaise. They do not really disturb me (there will always be lowly people doing lowly things). I am much more worried about the people who actually find them of the slightest interest and enthusiastically feed the free-loading trolls.

I find this incident quite amusing.

Both of them are hos.

End of story.

At the end of the day, you are SO right!

Gosh, I need to sleep now. Good night!

 

[Gypsy_Doll]

I find this incident quite amusing.

Both of them are hos.

End of story.

LMAO!

 

[xmodel citizen]

I like "Locked Up".

 

[bismarck]

I don't think dancing is the problem either. I've danced more than a tad bit suggestively many times before but that's because I have fun and enjoy what I'm doing. No one is degrading me or forcing me to do anything because I choose to grind against my friends. It bothers me when anytime a female makes a choice, she's automatically being degraded. Says who? Last time I checked we all had a choice. If you want to act like an idiot, it's your choice. Maybe if we had more personal responsibilty instead of blaming everyone for everyone else's mistakes, incidents like this could be handled with more maturity.

Girls are either prudes or mindless sex things. Why does it always have to be either or? Females need to look within themselves before blaming society. It's not society's fault when you act like an idiot. When you have inner strength and internal convictions, a couple of videos will not influence your decisions. I enjoy rap music and anything provacative, but I CHOOSE not to have sex. People don't degrade me because I don't allow them to. Being a strong woman involves more than conservative clothing and strict moral boundaries.

I feel like you're addressing my post. Hopefully I'm not just being conceited.

In case there was any confusion, I don't feel that dancing is the issue either; I was just answering to the many posts that seemed to say that Akon was the only person humping as a dance move. He's definitely not.

I was also using the word "prude" lightly, which seems kinda strange to me too this many hours later. Gah. I wrote this right before work, so I was rushed, and it's really evident in my post.

I don't consider my decision to not freakdance prudish. I'm not comfortable with grinding, especially now that I know more about sex (I used to grind and all of that, but that was when I was younger and more naive), so I don't do that. It's my choice. I agree that being a strong woman is more than just being conservative, but I also think that desiring to be sexy purely on the grounds of exposed skin and provocative behavior isn't being a strong woman; it's presenting yourself as a sexual object. But one can definitely be sexual and still be a strong woman. Madonna in the '80s definitely was very strong, at least imo, and she was supersexual. And I think Beyonce is very sexy and strong. But I feel like a lot of girls define themselves by how desireable they are, and how hot they are, and they use their right to choose not to make themselves equal individuals, but to cater to men as sex objects even more.

I'm not saying you, xmodelcitizen, aren't a strong woman. I don't know you nearly enough to say anything. A lot of my friends are less conservative in dress and behavior than I am, and are definitely not sluts or sleazy girls. Also, some of my friends are more conservative than I am, and I don't consider them goody-two-shoes. You're definitely right that it is our choice who we want to be, and we don't have to be dictated by some antiquated ruler of behavior.

 

[xmodel citizen]

^ Exactly, that's what I meant. Your behavior is a personal decision. I hate it when everything a female does is dictated by ridiculous stereotypes. Not every man who acts like an idiot is a twisted sexual pervert and not every girl who makes a mistake or participates in a sexual act is a victim. Nor is the guy innocent and the girl sl*tty. Most of these situations are much more complicated and I feel that too often sterotypes are used as defintions.

 

[homeboy]

This whole thing has been blown out of proportion.

He enjoyed it and so did she(if she didn't, she would have walked off the stage). Most importantly he didn't do anything illegal.

 

[misssakura]

The main question being asked is whether Akon should assume what is effectively ownership of female strangers. Because he is the performer and they're in a club does it automatically give him the right to do with them as he pleases? He performed an act with a female he did not know, a female he did not ask for consent prior to the event. Is it right to assume that a woman who dresses skimpily wants to be aggressively dry humped in front of an audience?

I'm not saying the answer should be yes or no but to say the event has been blown way out of proportion is slightly misleading - there has been a build up to a backlash. A lot of people are tired of these performers, I suppose this was just a trigger.

 

[Anastasia]

^^^

I'll say it - the answer is no. Wearing skimpy clothing and going up on stage is not giving permission to be flung around and roughly humped by a stranger. Just like foreplay is not giving permission for intercourse. Women - and men - have every right to say yes at one point in the game and no in another. We're allowed to change our minds, and have the freedom to be "teases". What's important is to be clear in your voicing of your feelings, and for the other party to step back and respect your choice, should you change your mind.

She may have liked it, she may not have, she may be afraid of daddy, she may be telling the absolute truth. No one has any way of knowing. But homeboy, it's really important for you to understand that her not escaping the grasp of a man 20 years older than her and physically stronger and running off the stage is no proof that she enjoyed it. At a concert like this, when she knows she's on display, there may also be an aspect of not wanting to embarrass herself by making a different kind of scene. And how many 15 year old girls are afraid to tell their boyfriends no? How is telling a famous singer you love no going to be easier?

Most 15 year old girls, whatever the state of their physical bodies, do not have that kind of mental fortitude or backbone. And the 'if she didn't like it, she would have gotten out of it' argument really irks me. It's used all the time in instances of real r*pe and assault - 'oh, yeah, if she didn't want it, she could have gotten out of it somehow.'

 

[homeboy]

I agree that what he did was very inappropriate. There in no way in the world that I would would do something like that on a stage, he was too brutal. It is the violence I have a problem with, rather then the horseplay itself.

In one of the pictures on the internet the Akon is lying with his back on the floor, holding his hands behind his head, while she is sitting on top of him. In that picture one can see that she wasn't forced to be on the stage and could, if she wanted, step off the stage. Looking at the rest of the pictures she seem to be the type of girl which enjoy attention.

The whole story is really sad and feel sorry for both of them.

 

[shallow_waters]

There is absolutely no reason to feel sorry for him.

 

[Alejandro]

I find this incident quite amusing.

Both of them are hos.

End of story.

Exactly! trash trash and it doesnt matter how religious this girl is, she looks like a damn ho, look at that top? she was totally cruising for a bruisin'.

I dont feel sorry for any of them, they're both putting themselves in such compromising situations that just throws them back into the neardental age, where they behave like animals and sh*t.

sorry.