Russian Street Style

[tiffany]

Originally posted by strawberry daiquiri@Apr 12th, 2004 - 10:26 am
Wow, they look good enough to eat..

lol they do

 

[softgrey]

i agree with faust-(big surprise )...calling it propaganda is a bit far-fetched and sounds somewhat paranoid to me...

and softee-you sound about as soft as i am...hahaha

 

[faust]

Originally posted by Softee+Apr 12th, 2004 - 4:13 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Softee @ Apr 12th, 2004 - 4:13 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-faust@Apr 12th, 2004 - 2:14 pm
I think it's more fair to compare how the same stratas of society dress in different countries (i.e. rich in US and Russia, middle-class in US and Russia, etc).

Yes, I agree it would be more accurate.
But the article talks about how Russians are dressing (or starting to dress) in general, doesn't it?
And what I meant by propaganda, is that the Western world had not yet switched from it's cold war mentality, a lot of jounalists are still operating on the anti-soviet propaganda mode...[/b][/quote]
Hmm, I hate to disagree again. I think that it's not cold war mentality anymore, I think it's a different kind of apprehension. I think many western journalists regard Russia as the big and powerful unknown, it's not the Enemy anymore, yet it's not Western. The country's importance can not be overlooked, whether it is politics or art or science - it's unfamiliar, hence the apprehension, and first rule of defending of an apprehensive feeling is condescendence. Witness the buying and star-studding of Chelsea Football Club by Abramovich - who in the world could've guessed 10 years ago that a Russian (Jew ) can come to London, by a premier football club for 100 million euros, add another 40 million in players and treat all of it like pocket change? The Brits are in uproar (well, except the Chelsea fans ), but everything would be nice and neat if that was George Soros.

I understand where you are coming from - I've had my share of these arguments with the ignorant, but trust me, you will find a much more educated, interesting crowd on this website - so tread lightly and don't be so hot-headed. People don't post here to offend (see Alejandro's signature ). And by the way, welcome to tFS

 

[faust]

Originally posted by tiffany+Apr 12th, 2004 - 4:27 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tiffany @ Apr 12th, 2004 - 4:27 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-strawberry daiquiri@Apr 12th, 2004 - 10:26 am
Wow, they look good enough to eat..

lol they do [/b][/quote]
they do, don't they? the story and the cartoon are so adorable! that's one thing i love about russian cartoons (the soviet era ones), they are so cute and morally right - they teach good lessons to kids. Having a 3-month old, I'm stacking up on all of these cartoons!!!

 

[Sugo]

Sugo
Do I have to explain that it's implied or maybe you will think about it for 10 secs ?

m hm
Conversation over!

 

[tott]

faust, Sugo: It's a bit surprising to learn that Karlsson på taket is so popular in Russia!

Of course I grew up with Astrid Lindgren's stories, but I'm always surprised to learn how universal her appeal seems to be!

Me and my twin had Drutten dolls, and our mother made us a crocodile... Sort of like Jena, but not quite. My brother still has it, actually!

 

[Softee]

Originally posted by faust+Apr 12th, 2004 - 4:33 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(faust @ Apr 12th, 2004 - 4:33 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Originally posted by Softee@Apr 12th, 2004 - 4:13 pm
<!--QuoteBegin-faust

@Apr 12th, 2004 - 2:14 pm
I think it's more fair to compare how the same stratas of society dress in different countries (i.e. rich in US and Russia, middle-class in US and Russia, etc).

Yes, I agree it would be more accurate.
But the article talks about how Russians are dressing (or starting to dress) in general, doesn't it?
And what I meant by propaganda, is that the Western world had not yet switched from it's cold war mentality, a lot of jounalists are still operating on the anti-soviet propaganda mode...

Hmm, I hate to disagree again. I think that it's not cold war mentality anymore, I think it's a different kind of apprehension. I think many western journalists regard Russia as the big and powerful unknown, it's not the Enemy anymore, yet it's not Western. The country's importance can not be overlooked, whether it is politics or art or science - it's unfamiliar, hence the apprehension, and first rule of defending of an apprehensive feeling is condescendence. Witness the buying and star-studding of Chelsea Football Club by Abramovich - who in the world could've guessed 10 years ago that a Russian (Jew ) can come to London, by a premier football club for 100 million euros, add another 40 million in players and treat all of it like pocket change? The Brits are in uproar (well, except the Chelsea fans ), but everything would be nice and neat if that was George Soros.

I understand where you are coming from - I've had my share of these arguments with the ignorant, but trust me, you will find a much more educated, interesting crowd on this website - so tread lightly and don't be so hot-headed. People don't post here to offend (see Alejandro's signature ). And by the way, welcome to tFS [/b][/quote]
faust
I think that post cold war mentality is mixed with xenophobia. Sometimes it's hard to tell which one is acting out... But the sad part is that people don't want to know, it's a lot easier to spit an article like that than to do some research.
I'm sorry, but I see your example with Abramovich, as rather irrelevant. A lot of Western companies have their posessions in Russia as well, that's just int'l finance.
The uproar of the British public, once again, shows their zenophobia. I wonder if it would be OK, if Abramovich went to school in England (just like Greek Soros did)... It's funny, really...

& thanx for the welcome.

softgrey
You think it's paranoid? Watch CNN, keeping in mind how Americans stereotype other nations, including Russians. You'll see a lot of stereotypes, a lot of negativity, and exaggerations. If you keep your mind open to this idea, you might just see how many ignorant reports and articles (like the one in question) are out there...

 

[softgrey]

ignorance is one thing and propaganda is another...you said propaganda...which is far more serious because it implies intentional deception of the public...as opposed to ignorance which is just lazy, sloppy reporting...

you're backtracking now...

but to a certain extent...isn't all media propaganda...to a certain extent...doesn't everyone have their own agenda?...

i've just accepted it and take everything with a grain of salt...including what you're saying...

 

[tott]

Originally posted by Softee@Apr 12th, 2004 - 11:06 pm
You think it's paranoid? Watch CNN, keeping in mind how Americans stereotype other nations, including Russians. You'll see a lot of stereotypes, a lot of negativity, and exaggerations. If you keep you mind open to this idea, you might just see how many ignorant reports and articles (like the one in question) are out there...

I'm not an American, and I have to agree with you that anything outside the US is often stereotyped by American medias like CNN!

This doesn't change the fact that you seem to be a bit overly sensitive here...

Sorry, Softee, that's the way I see it!

 

[Softee]

softgrey
I said both.
It's such a drag explaining these simple truths, but there is such a thing as propaganda mentality. People have been fed up with the idea that Soviets and Russians are bad for a very long time, which is why they still think this way... They're comfortable with it, and they don't want to adjust their ideas, which taps into the laziness and ignorance part...

tott
Yes, I am sensitive to this topic..., which kinda goes over the boundaries of fashion... Oops, i'm talking politics here...
Anyway...
Peace

 

[softgrey]

softee...i really think you've got a mistaken impression... i don't know anyone who thinks that russians are bad or that the soviet union is bad...or any of that stuff...that's so yesterday...the russian mafia has a bad reputation...but so does every mafia... to be honest...it would be far more accurate to say that most americans really don't know what's going on in russia and probably really don't care right now...

as long as you're not blowing us up...we have other things to worry about...like the idiots who are...

it might look different from your perspective but that's how it looks from where i'm sitting...

 

[Softee]

softgrey
It also depends on the person's social circle. Younger people seem to think the way you do, slightly older audience thinks a bit differently, which makes perfect sense.

But since we're talking about Moscow fashion, here's a link with pictures from different parties in Moscow, and defiles of Russian designers (some of which are very talented and definitely not new like Yudashkin, Zaicev).
It certainly helps if you know Russian, but you can just browse the pictures to get an idea.

 

[softgrey]

thx softee...that's a cool link..since i don't speak russian...can you tell me where and when most of these photos were taken...thx

 

[Softee]

softgrey
Sure! They are the pictures from different openings (nightclubs, exhibits, boutiques), the most recent one is from the opening of fashion week in Moscow, fashion shows by famous Russian and non-Russian designers (like Yohji Yamamoto), after-parties, presentations, festivals, etc...

 

[maarit]

Originally posted by softgrey@Apr 12th, 2004 - 5:32 pm
i don't know anyone who thinks that russians are bad or that the soviet union is bad

ok, I really hate to nit-pick but I think there are a lot of people out there who consider/considered soviet union as evil. It was a totalitarian state after all.
Sorry, offtopic

 

[softgrey]

Originally posted by maarit+Apr 13th, 2004 - 1:12 am--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(maarit @ Apr 13th, 2004 - 1:12 am)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-softgrey@Apr 12th, 2004 - 5:32 pm
i don't know anyone who thinks that russians are bad or that the soviet union is bad

ok, I really hate to nit-pick but I think there are a lot of people out there who consider/considered soviet union as evil. It was a totalitarian state after all.
Sorry, offtopic [/b][/quote]
past tense i think ...i don't think anyone still thinks it's what it used to be except for a few random die-hards...

hasn't it changed dramatically?...isn't it still changing...?

that's the impression i get from the american media...is that wrong?

 

[rayncloudx]

Originally posted by Softee@Apr 12th, 2004 - 12:50 pm
And FYI, the majority of Russian women still dress better than most American women do (and they are less fat than American, and a lot more attractive than French and English women, sorry but it's true) . Anyone who goes to Moscow notices that right at the airport...

i'm not trying to start anything really but i was kind of offended by that comment. What does weight or beauty have to do with fashion much less anything else ..

i duno. i just don't like how our world emphasizes it so much. i'm trying to change my way of thinking and percieving people just on the basis of their appearance. note: i'm trying.. it's hard but i'm making an effort

 

[Fujyn]

I don't know very well the trend of fashion in Russia I prefer study the trend in Italy, for the moment

 

[Lena]

one can find well dressed an bad dressed people everywhere, i dont think its a 'regional' issue.

i've visited Moscow some years ago and even though women are gorgeous they seemed like trying too hard to fit the "western" standards.
Hopefully they've been past their post perestroika mood though the article shows just a continuation of slaving for 'western' status.
i'd love to see more of the great russian culture in their clothes and i'm absolutely looking forward to a new breed of Russian designers.

for new designers its obviously hard to wash off all the 'western' labels influence and hype but as long as they start getting proud of their roots/traditions/culture, i'm positive they can turn up as the next big thing in contemporary fashion.

 

[Softee]

Lena, what makes you think that they are not proud of their roots?
And I agree Russian women pay too much attention to their looks... But they notoriously strive to look feminine and sexy more than anything else... E.g. - they wear pantyhose when it's -20 degrees outside as they wait for a bus at the busstop... which is kind of demeaning (and unhealthy)... It shouldn't be a woman's top priority to be liked by men...
What I like about American women is that they are free spirits... they wear whatever they like...